Do you fund the IRA?

AckwelFoley

I am a proud Irishman and upport the men who died fo our Independance, i have a certain amount of respect for the provisional movement in the late 70's when catholics were treated badly in the north..

However, its a different world today, there is a great emphasis on political discussion and powersharing.

I personally dispise the people that still harp on about a "brits out" "United Ireland" agenda, i fel they either lack an understanding of politics and reality of the consequences of such a senario, or they hold a deep rooted hate they cannot get over.

As an Irishman, i can say the most proud i ever was to be Irish was the day England played in the Gaa Headquarters and god save the queen was played, the respect the irish showed during the anthem showed as a nation how far we have come and it made me proud to be an Irishman.

There are still people that collect money by selling tickets or booklets to fund a provisional movement, not particularly the IRA, but splinter movements of them, they seem to get alot of ppl to buy these tickets, and most of the ppl that buy the ticket in my opinion are doing so based on the nostalgia that was created back in 1916, but do these people stop and think of actually who are the benificiorys of the funds today?.. they're people that dont want peace in Ireland and want to continue with bombing and killing over political process.

Dave!

This is basically a rant, yeah? I don't think you'll find many people on here 'fessing up to supporting the IRA.

cavedave

I am a proud Irishman

Proud of what? Can you really be proud of something you had no free will in choosing? Is pride in being Irish not the same as pride in being a man, being a certain height, having two eyes..? To take the dictionary definition

Proud: feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often fol. by of, an infinitive, or a clause).

How can something you had no choice about be honorable or creditable? Surely only actions you make an effort to carry out can bring kudos?

biko

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Op has "certain amount of respect for the provisional movement in the late 70's when catholics were treated badly in the north.." but the PIRA was widely regarded as terrorists by southerners that would defend the actions of 1916 IRA & Collins.

Even the original IRA didn't really have all that much support, neither did the IRB or Wolfe back in the day.

Mr.Micro

I have no pride in the IRA. I left Ireland ( returned 8 years ago I am glad to say) to find a career in England as Ireland, at the time had nothing to offer me or thousands of others. The IRA made it almost impossible to get by in the UK being Irish and automatically associated with terrorism. I am proud to be Irish but I will never thank the IRA for it.

AckwelFoley

DaveMcG wrote: »

This is basically a rant, yeah? I don't think you'll find many people on here 'fessing up to supporting the IRA.

Yes, perhaps a rant is a good choice of words. If one does support the actions of the 'ra, perhaps they'd have the pride in it to say there piece? Perhaps not.

Proud of what? Can you really be proud of something you had no free will in choosing?

Interesting, ive never thought about it that way before, perhaps because i was young and somtimes not so proud of my fellow countrymen, only in the last few years as i got older and looked at Ireland today have i become more "proud" of us as a nation. I do still disagree however, i am irish and as a citizen of this nation do have a say in it and what "we" choose, through my electrial vote, however insignificant it may be it still is a say.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

I agree fully, however there is a big difference between 1916 and 2008, conditions have changed greatly.

Kudos to those of you who replied with objective comments

cavedave

snyper
I do still disagree however, i am irish and as a citizen of this nation do have a say in it and what "we" choose, through my electrial vote, however insignificant it may be it still is a say.

This is a valid argument. I am proud that Ireland is a republic system (rather then a monarchy) and make an effort to keep it that way.

I am proud that you can walk down the street and not get stabbed and I am ashamed when someone cannot do this. And I make an effort to keep Ireland safe in this way.

My point is that "i am proud that through a random act of faith I ended up in this country/county/religion" etc is a pretty odd argument. Being proud of something you have made an effort in (for a country this could be by voting or paying tax say) makes more sense.

Fratton Fred

Pride in who you are is important, it helps give you an identity. National pride is great, but should never impact on another's national pride, unfortunately that is not always the case.

And er, no, I don't fund the IRA. I was pleased that whilst here one easter, I was asked to buy an easter lilly but when the seller realised I was english he very graciously said I should not (I had no idea what it was) and walked off without comment.

cavedave

Pride in who you are is important, it helps give you an identity.

Fair enough if you mean what you have become. If you mean pride in your actions and accomplishments. But if by "in who you are" you mean "what you happen to have been born into" can you really be proud of that?

National pride is great, but should never impact on another's national pride, unfortunately that is not always the case.

What sort of national pride? Take sport, should I feel pride in Padraig Harrington winning a golf tournament because he like me was born on this island? If i have done something to increase his chances of winning a golf tournament then I have some right to feel proud in his winning but if not do I?

Fratton Fred

cavedave wrote: »

Fair enough if you mean what you have become. If you mean pride in your actions and accomplishments. But if by "in who you are" you mean "what you happen to have been born into" can you really be proud of that?


What sort of national pride? Take sport, should I feel pride in Padraig Harrington winning a golf tournament because he like me was born on this island? If i have done something to increase his chances of winning a golf tournament then I have some right to feel proud in his winning but if not do I?

Football and Rugby would be a better example. Whilst you can't get out there and kick a ball on he pitch (Although on current form, anyone would be able to improve the current football team) but you can show your support, surely you can see the pride in that.

cavedave

Football and Rugby would be a better example. Whilst you can't get out there and kick a ball on he pitch (Although on current form, anyone would be able to improve the current football team) but you can show your support, surely you can see the pride in that.

Playing at home has an about 20% advantage in soccer (this is a dimly remembered statistic but it seems fairly accurate). A significant proportion of this is probably caused by the home supporters intimidating the referee and some from them encouraging their own players. So when they shout supporters really do have an effect on the game. Also their paying in and other actions benefits the players so again they increase the chances of victory. So they have something to be proud of.


Again I would ask pride in what? Is it purely in the efforts you have made to increase the teams chances of winning?

AckwelFoley

What really boils my blood is when you try to explain to people or friends that you dont support the provisional movement and sometimes, not ofter, i get responses questioning my Patriotism. Now personally, i dont really care, im well travelled person im Irisg by birth and not unhappy about it.

Have you ever noticed that we irish tend not to hand the tri colour out as much as other nations? In Denmark, most / many houses have a flag pole in the front lawn for the danisg flag, the americans also display their flag alot in residentila areas.. however we irish dont do it because of the assumnption that if you have a tricolour out in your front lawn you're a provo.

LordSutch

snyper wrote: »

I am a proud Irishman and upport the men who died fo our Independance, i have a certain amount of respect for the provisional movement in the late 70's when catholics were treated badly in the north.

So which particular late 1970's IRA Atrocities do you have respect for? and which particular Pub Bombing, Grizzly Murder, Knee Capping, Shooting in the head, Extorsion, or Bank Robbery do you feel had a certain amount of 'respectability' in the late 70's ................

Please enlighten me.

murphaph

snyper wrote: »

Have you ever noticed that we irish tend not to hand the tri colour out as much as other nations? In Denmark, most / many houses have a flag pole in the front lawn for the danisg flag, the americans also display their flag alot in residentila areas.. however we irish dont do it because of the assumnption that if you have a tricolour out in your front lawn you're a provo.

That's not too far from the truth. People would certainly assume you had republican leaninings if you flew a tricolour from your house all year. There's no harm in it during the world cup or whatever of course!

The flag was hijacked by a bunch of crooks and murderers up north so will forever be identified with terrorism unfortunately.

Fratton Fred

murphaph wrote: »

That's not too far from the truth. People would certainly assume you had republican leaninings if you flew a tricolour from your house all year. There's no harm in it during the world cup or whatever of course!

The flag was hijacked by a bunch of crooks and murderers up north so will forever be identified with terrorism unfortunately.

I can relate to that. the scum of the National Front hijacked the English flag and it took years for it to become something you could fly without being seen as a nazi.

bobnalong

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I can relate to that. the scum of the National Front hijacked the English flag and it took years for it to become something you could fly without being seen as a nazi.

Sure it's a well known fact the loyakists are supported by Nazi's / KKK etc etc.

murphaph

bobnalong wrote: »

Sure it's a well known fact the loyakists are supported by Nazi's / KKK etc etc.

.....but do loyalists support the Nazis/KKK etc?

Liam Byrne

snyper wrote: »

we irish dont do it because of the assumnption that if you have a tricolour out in your front lawn you're a provo.

And the irony being ? Well, for a start the Irish flag represents peace (white) between green and orange :rolleyes:

snyper is spot on, and I've said it before; we've let the terrorists hijack OUR flag, and it's probably time that we took it back.

AckwelFoley

murphaph wrote: »

.....but do loyalists support the Nazis/KKK etc?

Ian Paisley was educated in Americas Deep South.

kkk country.

AckwelFoley

ArthurF wrote: »

So which particular late 1970's IRA Atrocities do you have respect for? and which particular Pub Bombing, Grizzly Murder, Knee Capping, Shooting in the head, Extorsion, or Bank Robbery do you feel had a certain amount of 'respectability' in the late 70's ................

Please enlighten me.

There would have been no troubles in the north through the 70s and 80s if the Protestant Majority treated the catholic minority with equality and respect. However this was not happening, and a rebellion was always likely.

Ive already stated that im not a supporter of armed reaction, i think polotical discussion is the only method

biko

Don't know about KKK country but Paisley's use of the title 'Dr' derives from an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by Bob Jones University, a Christian college in Greenville, South Carolina. Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and, with Paisley, a leader in evangelical Christianity. Paisley continues to maintain a friendly relationship with the institution and has often spoken at the University's annual Bible Conference.

Fratton Fred

bobnalong wrote: »

Sure it's a well known fact the loyakists are supported by Nazi's / KKK etc etc.

and the IRA were supported by socialists and communists. What's your point?

Maybe you are confusing the English flag with the Union flag.

purple'n'gold

I don’t for the life of me know where people are getting Nazi, KKK from.(in relation to Northern Ireland) The Nazis were murderous thugs that wiped out millions of people in Europe; they would have wiped out millions more only they were stopped. The KKK are ,were (whatever) a bunch of uneducated , inbred head bangers , the majority of whom think the world is flat and have only a vague idea of places and people outside the USA.

bobnalong

purplengold wrote: »

I don’t for the life of me know where people are getting Nazi, KKK from.(in relation to Northern Ireland) The Nazis were murderous thugs that wiped out millions of people in Europe; they would have wiped out millions more only they were stopped. The KKK are ,were (whatever) a bunch of uneducated , inbred head bangers , the majority of whom think the world is flat and have only a vague idea of places and people outside the USA.

Em did you ever see Ranger fans doing the Nazi salute? It's not the red hand of ulster and I'm guessing you clearly no nothing about the north.

bobnalong

Heres one example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCtX56tokk&feature=related

I find it funny we republicans may support the likes of ETA, PLO etc etc but Rangers support Israel but yet do the red hand salute to them Now that is what you call stupid..

bobnalong

snyper wrote: »

There would have been no troubles in the north through the 70s and 80s if the Protestant Majority treated the catholic minority with equality and respect. However this was not happening, and a rebellion was always likely.

But instead of doing that the B-specials/loaylists were burning them out of there homes. I remember Ian Paisley was asked a question by a reporter would it be fare for protestants to pick up arms and he said of course but yet when the IRA done that it was wrong.

People clearly dont remember the likes of the first man to die during the troubles an old man beaten to death by loaylists or Jack Lynch saying "if they want a fight we will give them a fight" then he marched thousands of soliders up near the border and marched them back down again.

People seem to think the IRA just got it into their heads to start bombing England, I must say there was alot of bad things happened but for people to say the IRA were just out to murder people is wrong, the Manchester bombing for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjjTepH7-w loads of people could have died but the IRA gave a warning which ended up in some guys been arrested another example the canary wharf bomb.

The british didn't care about bombs going off in the north one bomb in London is worth a hundred in the north that's why they attacked them on their own ground. My father lives in London all my family are there, I've never heard of them having any trouble over there although I do fed up everytime I go over getting searched for a bomb.

purple'n'gold

bobnalong wrote: »

Em did you ever see Ranger fans doing the Nazi salute? It's not the red hand of ulster and I'm guessing you clearly no nothing about the north.

I assure you I know as much about the north as the next man. And I also know about right wingers and left wingers etc. My argument is that the brainless idiots that support Rangers and give stiff arm salutes are just that idiots, they are not Nazis, and the Nazis were possibly the scariest people that ever lived, the so called right wingers that now give Nazi salutes would have been among the first people that Hitler would have made into bars of soap. The Nazis were not very indulgent towards the mentally feeble. No, its quiet wrong and disrespectful to the millions upon millions of people that the Nazis murdered to compare them (the Nazis, real ones) to half witted foot ball supporters.

Dudess

bobnalong wrote: »

Sure it's a well known fact the loyakists are supported by Nazi's / KKK etc etc.

Is it?

biko wrote: »

Don't know about KKK country but Paisley's use of the title 'Dr' derives from an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by Bob Jones University, a Christian college in Greenville, South Carolina. Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and, with Paisley, a leader in evangelical Christianity. Paisley continues to maintain a friendly relationship with the institution and has often spoken at the University's annual Bible Conference.

Bob Jones University has an anti-catholic ethos, and until recently, interracial dating was banned on its campus. Again, it's in South Carolina, where the age of consent for females is 14.

purplengold wrote: »

I don’t for the life of me know where people are getting Nazi, KKK from.(in relation to Northern Ireland) The Nazis were murderous thugs that wiped out millions of people in Europe; they would have wiped out millions more only they were stopped. The KKK are ,were (whatever) a bunch of uneducated , inbred head bangers , the majority of whom think the world is flat and have only a vague idea of places and people outside the USA.

Many rural southerners (Appalachian area in particular) in the US are descended from Ulster-Scots immigrants (also referred to as Scotch-Irish). It is believed that the term "hillbilly" may derive from "billy-boy" (Billy, as in King William of Orange). The KKK had a majorly anti-catholic agenda in its early days, but that got sidelined by its anti-communist agenda. I've no doubt there's some support for Orange culture among yokels in America's Deep South, but hardly anything significant.
However there is indeed a link between British neo-nazi skinheads and loyalist paramilitaries. But yeah, where was the nazi party founded? Bavaria, the last catholic stronghold in Germany. What religion was Hitler? Why, catholic!

bobnalong wrote: »

I find it funny we republicans may support the likes of ETA, PLO etc etc but Rangers support Israel but yet do the red hand salute to them Now that is what you call stupid..

The only reason why loyalist yobs claim to support Israel (by hanging/painting Israeli flags on walls etc, not much else) is because there are catholic areas with Palestinian flags on display as a show of solidarity. It's just a childish dig - whatever one side does, the other will do the opposite. As some comedian said a few years ago, if there were posters of Britney Spears in a catholic area, the neighbouring loyalists would put up posters of Christina Aguilera
A guy I know who does community work in the north told me he was privy to a bunch of skinheads coming over to have a meeting with a bunch of loyalists. When they witnessed Israeli flags on show in the estate, they were absolutely baffled, saying stuff like "what the fuk are you doing supporting k*kes" etc.
I always find the inconsistencies of the far Right most amusing...

AckwelFoley

Good post dudess.

Dudess

Thanks S

Fratton Fred

bobnalong wrote: »

People seem to think the IRA just got it into their heads to start bombing England, I must say there was alot of bad things happened but for people to say the IRA were just out to murder people is wrong, the Manchester bombing for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyjjTepH7-w loads of people could have died but the IRA gave a warning which ended up in some guys been arrested another example the canary wharf bomb..

That is a very scary post. Do you actually believe that crap?

What has all this stuff about Nazis, Loyalists and the KKK got to do with the OPs point, or is this because I made mention of the National front hijacking the English flag. If so, wtf have Rangers. red hand of ulster etc got to do with the English flag?