Irish gov determined to bulldoze Top Ten ancient discovery

Archeron

lostexpectation wrote: »

wow you didn't like hippies before and you don't like em, now I wonder what civil engineering degrees the councillors have

I didnt say I dont like hippies, I've no problems with hippies at all.
Where I have problems is when some smelly semi stoned dude knocks on my door asking me to sign a petition against something that I feel is urgently required for the future progression of the county in which I live, without being able to provide a coherent argument as to WHY I should sign it.

As for the councillors, I'm sure they have no engineering degrees either, but I would imagine that the companies they employ to perform these pre-contract works and planning applications probably have one or two between them. If I had to make a decision to trust the opinions of a guy who doesnt really seem to know what he's talking about or a large national infrastructural construction company with a succesful track record in providing major works, I think I'd go with the latter.
As I said, there probably are protestors out there eloquently making very valid points about what they want changed in relation to this, but it most certainly has not come across that way to the people who are directly affected by it every single day of their lives.
As someone else said above, you can barely dig a hole to plant a tree in this part of the country without coming across something of archeological interest. Should we just cancel all progress in the county for the sake of preserving it? I dont say bulldoze everything, but I do say that if you find a small piece of crockery, or a shadow of a hole where something wooden once stood, then make a decision on what should happen, and stick with it.
As long as intelligent decisions are made in relation to these type of things, with rational discussion and debate from BOTH sides, then people will be happy to live with the results. What irks people on this is the amount of misleading information being put forward from groups who seem determined to get their own way, regardless of the affect this may have to tens or even hundreds of thousands of people trying to go about their lives.

Yes, this has been handled poorly by the government, but I believe it has been handled equally poorly by those opposed to the decision.
The majority of people of Meath love their counties heritage and are intensely proud of it, and they would have backed up proper arguments against what has happened on this site, but those proper arguments just never really turned up, and even if they had, it was a bit bloody late.

Setun

unclebill98 wrote:

Then don't use the road and you shall not pay the toll.....

Oh I won't be using that road and paying that tax, no way...





..I can't drive

unclebill98

Daddio wrote: »

Oh I won't be using that road and paying that tax, no way...





..I can't drive

:):) then your opinion on the M3 can't count

Setun

unclebill98 wrote: »

:):) then your opinion on the M3 can't count

Does cycling count??

On a slightly more serious note, I don't really associate with hippies, or weirdbeards or whatever the hell people call them these days, but nearly everyone I've talked to is against the road being built so close to Tara. So taht's my experience with it.

cornbb

Archeron wrote: »

I didnt say I dont like hippies, I've no problems with hippies at all.
Where I have problems is when some smelly semi stoned dude knocks on my door asking me to sign a petition against something that I feel is urgently required for the future progression of the county in which I live, without being able to provide a coherent argument as to WHY I should sign it.

I don't particularly like "hippies" either, they irk me in some intangible way that I suspect they do to many other people too. Their opinions however are valid, and while they rightfully don't get their way a lot of the time their lobbying is important as it keeps the interests of other groups with vested interests in check, and vice-versa.

Not all of the protesters are hippies either, most are just people like you or me with jobs, cars, and/or families.

As for the councillors, I'm sure they have no engineering degrees either, but I would imagine that the companies they employ to perform these pre-contract works and planning applications probably have one or two between them. If I had to make a decision to trust the opinions of a guy who doesnt really seem to know what he's talking about or a large national infrastructural construction company with a succesful track record in providing major works, I think I'd go with the latter.

Here we have a group with vested interests. Engineering companies have an interest in making money, preserving archaeological remains isn't high among their priorities I imagine. Hence we need "hippies" to keep them in check.

L1011

Daddio wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking that. How fitting - get the public to pay the fine for a road they didn't want built beside tara hill.

You've a warped definition of "beside", or more likely don't actually know where the road is going to be built. Its no nearer to the hill than current roads are.

Punchbowl wrote: »

Is it? I must of missed the vote so? What were the results???

You must have missed the 2004 local elections and 2007 general election, then.

Archeron

cornbb wrote: »

Not all of the protesters are hippies either, most are just people like you or me with jobs, cars, and/or families.

I know, I said in my post that there are bound to be people putting across a valid point of view that makes a proper argument. But I'm also just pointing out that as a resident of Meath, the ONLY people I have seen pursuing this issue are those of the hippy variety. To me that smacks of a poorly organized protest, and I'm sure others in my situation would feel the same. Think of Tarawatch, what do I think of? Hippies. I also think of the idiots with their Irish Wolfhounds who caused traffic chaos on the N3 one day as they stood around the Fairyhouse cross junction chanting and wailing and goodness knows what else. Not exactly inspiring me to persue their cause.

I have seen the protest outside of Navan Shopping centre (a good place to have it, certainly a hub for people in the Meath area) and it was, once again, hippies who didnt really have any point to make. Where were the professional people there? I would certainly have listened, and if in agreement with logical points would have gladly joined the protest and helped spread the word. By all means, I love the heritage of the area, and would do my utmost to defend it where I can, and where it does actually require defending.

As for the point about construction companies having their own agendas, of course you're right. But put beside the dreamy visions of the only protestors that I've come across, I'd still choose the contractors.

This could possibly be the crux of the problem. The protests could be a valid argument that is being made, but when the OTHER people who are making NO point whatsoever get tagged onto it, people stop listening.
Perhaps the best thing the hippies could do for this protest is to stop protesting, leave the discussion of alternative proposals to people who do know what they are talking about, and let the decisions be made on the basis of intelligent conversation instead of colorful flower filled visions.

I for one have only encountered the flowers so far, and based on that have pretty much come to the conclusion that I've reached, ie, its all a load of arse.

Degsy

cornbb wrote: »

Hence we need "hippies" to keep them in check.

Hippies dont keep anything in check,they just waste everybody's time and talk a load of old cobblers.One of those idiots trying to delay the M3 was forced tp pay 600 grand in states legal fees for wasting time.If they havnt got a cogent argument beyond some bead-jangling nonsense they should stick to knitting kaftans and sending thier kids around in the nude.

unclebill98

I see there is a protest on the 8th...if i could get the time of work i'd go down to the Lismullen bit of the N3 and stand there with a large sign saying "Honk for the M3". I bet I'd get alot of support by passing motorists?