Ireland's wealth and its young kids

daveharnett

Dudess wrote: »

Me too. We weren't what you'd call rich but we were relatively well-off. However my parents were poor growing up so they were damned if they were gonna give us everything we wanted.

That's the thing. Most actual rich people get that way by spending wisely. Rather than spending on useless crap for the kids, they have tended to invest in them - spending on education/life skills/contacts.

kelle

ixoy wrote: »

What confuses me Dudess is how your friends aren't wealthy but are able to build massive houses when anyone I know (and I think we're around the same age here) could barely afford to buy a two-bed in the back of beyond.. Admit it, you're wallowing in cash

They probably got a site free of charge from their parents, like I did. Then you are encouraged by the architect to build as big a house as you can, as extras only cost an extra few thousand, and you think - what's an extra few thousand when you're getting the site free.
However, I only built a house of adequate size for my needs and that of my children. Only the master bedroom has an en-suite.
I agree with OP. I was a child of the 70s and 80s, I only ever got one present from Santa, which I appreciated. We got no presents off relations. Most of our clothes were secondhand. Now children gets so many presents from relations as well as Santa, and the house gets swamped with "rubbish" the kids don't appreciate. I'm trying to teach my children the value of money, but it is so difficult when each of my in-laws arrive on Christmas day with sackloads of toys/clothes/novely items. They just open present after present and don't play with any as they're so frustrated. It annoys me, but they (the in-laws) don't agree with KrisKindle or giving the money to a charity of our choice.
Dudess, what that 5-year-old has is obscene!

Lump

When I have a child - No matter how rich I am I will feed them stale bread and water - If they are lucky.

Pigman II

I don't think there's a simple equation that if you spoil your kid he's going to turn out to be unappreciative.

I grew up in a family that struggled, I didn't get much as a kid and I STILL I have no appreciation of anything these days! I've place no value on money or possessions and ironically the only things that I've ever been interested in acquiring were a few odd nicknacks lost from my childhood. The money just sits there building up and I couldn't give a sh1t.

So really you never can tell.

Plus you mention that kid was polite and all so there's a good chance he could turn out ok. I'd give any kid of mine a 42 inch tv if it meant he didn't turn into a mouthy little bollix.

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

I Anyway, the house was newly built and she took us for a tour around it. It was like something out of Cribs but what really struck me was that the five-year-old had a walk-in wardrobe and his own enormous en-suite - and not just any old en-suite, but a wet room! He also had a playroom next to his enormous double bedroom, complete with a flat-screen TV, Sky Plus and a DVD player!
H

I've had to read this a few times.

I'm not sure what your problem is here, it's a newly built home so I assume they had en-suite/walk in wardrobes in all room's and was built with the child's future in mind and not that the fact that a 5yr old needs a walk in wardrobe.

After that he has a tv and digital TV? oh he'll burn in hell.

You do realise it's 07 and not 87?

This sounds pretty normal for me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well.. yeah that's exactly what she's saying. that this has become normal and she's having a bit of a 'wtf' moment about it.

very dutch of you to point out the obvious there.

ntlbell

Mordeth wrote: »

well.. yeah that's exactly what she's saying. that this has become normal and she's having a bit of a 'wtf' moment about it.

very dutch of you to point out the obvious there.

What I'm trying to figure out is why the WTF moment, what's WRONG with it being normal.

it's a TV...?

It's not like the 5yr old has a property portfolio and a few cars.

Television..it's not all that new....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he's... five

that's just crazy.

ntlbell

Mordeth wrote: »

he's... five

that's just crazy.

Isn't it free to have multi room viewing?

So they bought him a tv...how is it crazy? I'm sure they got the digital done because they were getting it done apart from that hows it crazy?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he's a five year old child. he shouldn't have access to sky bloody digital in his room!

well no, i shouldn't say shouldn't but still, imo that's pretty ****ing stupid. It's just not something a 5 year old needs, although in the future it could come in handy as a bargaining chip. 'do your chores or you'll see what it's like to stare at your wall all night long'

ntlbell

Mordeth wrote: »

he's a five year old child. he shouldn't have access to sky bloody digital in his room!

well no, i shouldn't say shouldn't but still, imo that's pretty ****ing stupid. It's just not something a 5 year old needs, although in the future it could come in handy as a bargaining chip. 'do your chores or you'll see what it's like to stare at your wall all night long'

but if they're putting it into the rooms for free, why not? it has parental control so you can just allow nicklodeon or whatever kids watch these days.

It's not surprising the OP is from cork and you're from carlow or something.

out of the stix lads.

TerrorFirmer

My parents are very well off and own a large amount of property here and abroad. All I used to get when I was younger was how spoilt I was, how lucky I was, better off then everyone etc - without grounding actually, seeing as my parents never gave me money once I was 15 years of age, they don't give me anything through college, in fact I pay them rent money during the year. They don't believe in handouts, even if they won the lotto they'd probably be the same.

There are plenty of spoilt kids in familes with low incomes, it's not an attribute of the wealthy.

milli

HavoK wrote: »

My parents are very well off and own a large amount of property here and abroad. All I used to get when I was younger was how spoilt I was, how lucky I was, better off then everyone etc - without grounding actually, seeing as my parents never gave me money once I was 15 years of age, they don't give me anything through college, in fact I pay them rent money during the year. They don't believe in handouts, even if they won the lotto they'd probably be the same.

There are plenty of spoilt kids in familes with low incomes, it's not an attribute of the wealthy.

I think you may be the exception to the rule HavoK but I agree with you about spoilt kids in families with low incomes - some people just dont know where to stop.

EdgarAllenPoo

I can understand why some (not all) kids are spoilt. If you grew up in the generation I did (or more specifically your parents became parents when mine did) then the various wage increases in the public service (until recently my parents both had state jobs) and the increase in property prices has made you less concerned about money than you once were and more willing and able to give your kids they things they want because you weren't in a position to do it before.

When I was in primary school in the early 90's you had the whole PE gear thing with competition for the latest runners, etc. I wore Dunnes clothes (this is back when they were dirt cheap and piss poor quality).

I got 50p a week in pocket money and vividly remember one week were my mam felt so horrible because she couldn't afford to give us our pocket money.
At the time she was a care assistant and training to be a nurse, my dad had been made redundant and was trying to start a driving school.
We survived on a sack of spuds and a tray of eggs for ages.

The driving school thing didn't work out (funny thing is about a year after my dad gave in and joined CIE the business took off) but we had enough money to move froma two bed terraced house to a new three bed semi.

In 03 we moved to Cavan and bought a four bed house on half an acre. My parents were mortgage free but living in Cavan didn't agree with us so we moved to Dunshaughlin.

They now have a mortgage of about 100k but my mam now has a much better job and we can afford to live very well.
You'd think that with the money we now have you could afford to let your hair down and by the things you want in life but the expience of living off nothing stops you from spending moeny on silly stuff (my dad agonised for three years over buying a new car).


Anywho, the point of this is that growing up in the circumstances that I did has meant that not only do I know the value of money but also that I know how to handle it. It's down to the parents and their inability to say no.

I know it's hard to explain the finer points of being peniless to a kid who's being teased for what they wear or what toys they have but there's no reason parents can't try to teach their kids the value of money by saying no or god forbid making them work for their pocket money and teaching them to save for what they want rather than instant gratification.

ntlbell

GDM wrote: »

Anywho, the point of this is that growing up in the circumstances that I did has meant that not only do I know the value of money but also that I know how to handle it. It's down to the parents and their inability to say no.

I know it's hard to explain the finer points of being peniless to a kid who's being teased for what they wear or what toys they have but there's no reason parents can't try to teach their kids the value of money by saying no or god forbid making them work for their pocket money and teaching them to save for what they want rather than instant gratification.

Saying and that's the reason I value money today is a bit silly really.

I know lots of people who were in your situation and today they pi** it up the wall because they didn't have the nice things when they were younger and now they want them all.

There's seven kids in my family we went through hard times and some good times but we all treat money differently, because we're individual people and see things in a different way.

My parents did nothing to cause money to burn a hole in my brothers pocket and they didn't really do anything special to make me be fairly careful.

I enjoy my money and spend enough to be happy but also live within my means and I'm debt free.

If the answer to making kids appreciate and respect money was as easy as feeding him eggs and spuds and putting him in sizzlers, parenting would be a lot easier.

5starpool

I have no appreciation of money at all, but that has to do with the amount of money I see and handle while playing poker primarily, and nothing to do with my upbringing in the years when santy would bring marla, colouring books, and maybe one treat like buckaroo a year.

Also, the most important part of the OP, is where they say it is a wet room, not just an en suite. Excuse, my ignorance, but what is a wet room in this context, as opposed to a room that has loads of moisture in it.

ntlbell

5starpool wrote: »

I have no appreciation of money at all, but that has to do with the amount of money I see and handle while playing poker primarily, and nothing to do with my upbringing in the years when santy would bring marla, colouring books, and maybe one treat like buckaroo a year.

Also, the most important part of the OP, is where they say it is a wet room, not just an en suite. Excuse, my ignorance, but what is a wet room in this context, as opposed to a room that has loads of moisture in it.

You're just used to never having it

Sleepy

A wet room is a recent fad in interior design where essentially the entire bathroom is a shower.

I think the next few years are going to be fascinating from a sociological point of view. Speaking from an economic point of view, a capitalist society will normally go through a 7 year cycle of busts and booms. Ireland has managed what if I'm not mistaken is the unprecedented run of fourteen year boom (with possibly the last seven being fuelled by a property bubble). This is interesting to me because 14 years is the pretty much the length of time it takes for a child to go from grasping the very basics about money (i.e. you give it to the lady in the sweet shop to get sweets) to reaching adulthood.

We have an entire generation of young adults who have no concept of hardship and no idea how to survive it. Even speaking for my own generation (I'm 27) who can remember the hardships of the 80's (and I can certainly identify with a lot of the posters talking about not having branded clothes, expensive christmas presents or high expectations of them) haven't ever tried to support themselves during a recession.

There's gonna be a lot of screaming brats either next Christmas or the Christmas after, and virtually everyone under the age of 30 (or at least those who haven't had a house bought before 2000) is going to have to deal with a huge shock to their 'lifestyle'. Interesting times ahead.

Dragan

ntlbell wrote: »

It's not surprising the OP is from cork and you're from carlow or something.

out of the stix lads.

Oh come the **** on.... because the lads don't come from Dublin their opinions are somehow not valid?

It's bad enough that the tv watching time for kids is on the up and up while physical interests are dropping off.....even worse to get them into the habit of staying in their room all the time at such a young age.

One could happily read into these as being signs of lazy parenting.

Dragan
- Leader of the Culchie Mafia

brousuka

Jaysus! when I was young if I didn't wake up with a ha*d-on Christmas morning i'd have nothing to play with for the rest of the day!!
Seriously though, it's interesting to read the above posts. As someone who has experienced the "hairshirt" 80's in the days of black, white and grey when I was starting my married life etc. it's not hard to see why so many people want to live a bit and give their kids a bit of luxury. They really were terrible years. We only started to realise what a bit of comfort was when airline travel became cheaper and we saw what we were missing out on. I'm not resentful, but Ireland transformed from a relatively third world depressive economy almost overnight, and, many did really well. There's nothing wrong with that. Some folk are still struggling to make ends meet but still have a lot more comfort and quality of life than say 20yrs ago, and there is a sort of resentment of the new wealth. I say fair play, we couldn't live in a bit of luxury for years and if you have a few bob, well you can't bring it to the grave. As for the kids, don't forget the world is far more competitive now than it ever was, and in the years ahead, the kids of today have to be honed to be ultra competitive to survive and this means knowledge of as much as they can get their hands on even including playstation 3's etc. That's the way it's going whether we like it or not. The more comfortable a child is, the more he or she will be adaptable to learn and strive.

ntlbell

Dragan wrote: »

Oh come the **** on.... because the lads don't come from Dublin their opinions are somehow not valid?

It's bad enough that the tv watching time for kids is on the up and up while physical interests are dropping off.....even worse to get them into the habit of staying in their room all the time at such a young age.

One could happily read into these as being signs of lazy parenting.

Dragan
- Leader of the Culchie Mafia

From the OP stating that the child was very well behaved, polite etc I wouldn't think they're lazy at all.

As much as being a culchie doesn't automatically make you a mumbling baboon although there's a lot of evidence to say other wise. putting a tv in your child's bedroom doesn't automatically make you a bad/lazy parent.

Dudess

ntlbell, you're making some trollish comments and it's giving me the impression that you're trying to get a rise out of people. By all means take part in the discussion but please leave the nonsensical remarks out of it.

Terry

Meh. They;ll all be screwed when the revolution comes.

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

ntlbell, you're making some trollish comments and it's giving me the impression that you're trying to get a rise out of people. By all means take part in the discussion but please leave the nonsensical remarks out of it.

eh?

Making an assumption that a parent is lazy based on the fact they bought a tv is nonsensical i pointed it out, end of story.

Dudess

No, not at all. I'm referring to your "culchie" remarks.

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

No, not at all. I'm referring to your "culchie" remarks.

oh that was some light hearted after hours banter for that I'm very sorry.

wow, first week we're eager.

Dudess

ntlbell wrote: »

After that he has a tv and digital TV? oh he'll burn in hell.

You do realise it's 07 and not 87?

This sounds pretty normal for me.

Trying to provoke a reaction by getting confrontational when it's unwarranted.

ntlbell wrote: »

it's a TV...?

It's not like the 5yr old has a property portfolio and a few cars.

Television..it's not all that new....

Swimming against the tide of logic and commonsense just to get a reaction.

ntlbell wrote: »

It's not surprising the OP is from cork and you're from carlow or something.

out of the stix lads.

Trolling

ntlbell wrote: »

As much as being a culchie doesn't automatically make you a mumbling baboon although there's a lot of evidence to say other wise

Trolling.

Kindly refrain.

ntlbell

Can I go around quoting you and changing what you said to what I think it said to suit me?

Is your friend who put the TV in the 5yr olds bedroom going against the tide to get a reaction from people like you who she invites in to view the home?

No, so why would I be doing it for a reaction, I don't think there's anything wrong with a TV in a 5yr olds bedroom as long as the viewing of it is controlled in some fashion.

As I had all ready stated previously, the culchie bit was banter I didn't think you were going get upset, I said sorry, why you continue to drag it out is beyond me.

Dudess

ntlbell wrote: »

Can I go around quoting you and changing what you said to what I think it said to suit me?

I did not do that, I just quoted the parts where you were clearly trying to piss people off.

astrofool

As other people have mentioned, there doesn't seem to be much point in this thread. If you compare a typical child's upbringing in the 80's to the 60's then the 80's kid will be leading a far more opulent lifestyle. Hell, almost everyone in Ireland has a better standard of living than a king would have had back in the 16th century.

So they have a nice house, it's the one area where you DO spend your money, as it will appreciate as an asset, that shower room and walk in wardrobe will add thousands in sell on value if the need ever arises. LCD Tv's are getting cheaper by the day, and if you shop around, everything can be got at bargain prices (something which a lot of people don't bother to do).

Over in the states recently, I was able to get top designer clothes at 20% the cost they would be here, some as cheap as the fall apart pieces you get in Penney's/Dunnes (which I'd use as well).

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

I did not do that, I just quoted the parts where you were clearly trying to piss people off.

Were you assumed I was because you didn't read the part where i said it was banter and said sorry.

Good girl.

Karoma

ntlbell wrote: »

Good girl.

Don't patronize other members.

If you don't see where the OP is coming from and cannot be convinced, give up and move on. Plenty of other threads and other fora.


All of you, get back on topic.

Dudess

ntlbell wrote: »

Were you assumed I was because you didn't read the part where i said it was banter and said sorry.

Meh, that apology looked pretty phony to me:

ntlbell wrote: »

oh that was some light hearted after hours banter for that I'm very sorry.

wow, first week we're eager.

But enough of that. Let's all hug!

Zzippy

ixoy wrote: »

What confuses me Dudess is how your friends aren't wealthy but are able to build massive houses when anyone I know (and I think we're around the same age here) could barely afford to buy a two-bed in the back of beyond.. Admit it, you're wallowing in cash

Maybe she lives in the countryside? You could build a 2,500 sq ft house with all the trimmings for a lot less than the price of a 2-bed apartment in Dublin suburbia...

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

Meh, that apology looked pretty phony to me:

But enough of that. Let's all hug!

Oh look at that, taken what I said and changing it into what YOU think I said.

You're not very good at the aul perception thing.

9/10 for effort tho!

good..gi...ah nm..

Dudess

Careful now...

And, like Karoma said: back on topic.

LouOB

Only read main thread and understand the concept of the arguement.
There are different issues to approach here
1. Maybe person bringing up child didnt have nice upbringing therefore spoiling child
2. Mother had same upbringing and does not know how to teach child any difference - but at least child had manners - major plus
3. Such wealth cannot be sustained my ecomony
4. Though child had all the latest gadgets n stuff - bet ya 20yo that said child played with empty box with another child or relative over the christmas

Conclusion - children do not understand the concept of wealth. They are children. Once they have loving and supporting family, money is irrelevant.

Sleepy

ntlbell, something tells me that you're exactly the generation that's going to have most problems dealing with the recession. The arrogance and goading of others you're displaying in this thread are pretty typical amongst those that were spoilt as children.

ntlbell

Sleepy wrote: »

ntlbell, something tells me that you're exactly the generation that's going to have most problems dealing with the recession. The arrogance and goading of others you're displaying in this thread are pretty typical amongst those that were spoilt as children.

Well I grew up in a large working class family in Tallaght with very little, during the late 70's and early 80's it turned into a one parent familiy and had less.

But you sound like you know what you're talking about, and my thoughts on a TV in a child's bedroom regardless of my current situation will most definitely lead me to having problems during the recession.

You're on the ball son.

JC 2K3

It's strange, my parents raised me to have respect for money, I've never been demanding in my life and have always thought long and hard before spending any large sum of money.

My sister is the complete opposite. She's 16, demanding and indifferent towards money. She has NO concept whatsoever of the value of money.

I've noticed some striking differences in the way we were both raised, despite the fact that we have to same parents. I think alot of her demanding nature came from the type of friends she hung/hangs around with and the way their parents raised them. As a result this has possibly made it a lot harder to raise her as they raised me. I just happened to make friends with people less well off than myself and I therefore never became demanding in this fashion.

What's also interesting is that my parents are getting less careful about the money they spend. I think this is the result of my sister being demanding as well as influence by their own peers. The other day they asked me out of the blue "Do you think we should get a 36" TV?". Now we have about 6 TVs in our house already, one of which is a flatscreen 32" and another of which is a 28" widescreen. Put simply, we have absolutely no reason to buy another TV. All I could do was look at them funnily and ask, "What? Why?". I mean, my instinct tells me that such an expensive purchase should not be a spur of the moment decision based on an "Ah sure we can afford it." mentality, it should be analysed for its necessity and long term worth. It's strange how I live by the values they taught me yet they no longer seem to....

Sleepy

ntlbell wrote: »

But you sound like you know what you're talking about, and my thoughts on a TV in a child's bedroom regardless of my current situation will most definitely lead me to having problems during the recession.

You're on the ball son.

Nothing to do with your thoughts on the TV in the child's bedroom. I guess petulance and rudeness were widespread in Tallaght when you were growing up or something? Or did you actually just lick it off a stamp?

ntlbell

Sleepy wrote: »

Nothing to do with your thoughts on the TV in the child's bedroom. I guess petulance and rudeness were widespread in Tallaght when you were growing up or something? Or did you actually just lick it off a stamp?

Oh? so now rudeness will cause me problems when it's time to tighten the belt.

Again, you make loads of sense thanks for joining in!

Sleepy

Well, quite probably. Who wants to hire the rude candidate for a job or do business with the irritating person?

If you'd just stated that you don't believe someone buying a TV for a 5 year old is necessarily a bad parent, I'd probably agree with you. It's when you start goading other posters and acting like a petulant three year old when a mod warns you to quit trolling that people are going to assume your own parents were guilty of spoiling you as a child.

pid()

ntlbell, sandy vagina?

Duckjob

Grew up in the 80s too. Got a ZX Spectrum for Christmas one year, value around IR£180.00. It was both me and my bro's combined Christmas & Birthday presents, and even at that we knew it was a stretch. Gave us years of fun though...:)

Nothing more depressing than seeing kids now absent-mindedly tearing wrappers off multiple presents worth hundreds of euro, then putting on a bored expression and moving onto the next present.

A friend of mine has a 7yr old girl who put her eye on an expensive Barbie for Christmas. He told her how much over Santa's budget it was and how she had to contribute the difference so that other kids wouldn't go without. He then helped her work out how much of her pocket money she needed to save each week to get the Barbie. That girl saved her money every week from April last year and got her Barbie for Christmas. Now that's parenting...;)

ntlbell

Sleepy wrote: »

Well, quite probably. Who wants to hire the rude candidate for a job or do business with the irritating person?

If you'd just stated that you don't believe someone buying a TV for a 5 year old is necessarily a bad parent, I'd probably agree with you. It's when you start goading other posters and acting like a petulant three year old when a mod warns you to quit trolling that people are going to assume your own parents were guilty of spoiling you as a child.

I don't know, everyone that's hired me so far I guess.

Because I wasn't trolling, maybe it's tough for dudess to understand that one of the beauties of the internets is you get to hear all sorts of opinions from a wide range of backgrounds, this is not coffee morning in the local church in cobh, they were/are my honest opinion on the subject the culchie remarks were a joke that I apoligised for and yet a few pages later we're still talking about it.

for anyone on the thread that lives outside the pale and may think i was referring to you when i said "culchie" I wasn't, it was a bit of banter that I realise now is not acceptable on boards and won't be using again!

that's all

sleepy, you rock

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

do you honestly think you weren't being a sarky bitch?


we can handle differences of opinion, it's idiots that get my goat.

ntlbell

Duckjob wrote: »

Grew up in the 80s too. Got a ZX Spectrum for Christmas one year, value around IR£180.00. It was both me and my bro's combined Christmas & Birthday presents, and even at that we knew it was a stretch. Gave us years of fun though...:)

Nothing more depressing than seeing kids now absent-mindedly tearing wrappers off multiple presents worth hundreds of euro, then putting on a bored expression and moving onto the next present.

To me in the early 80's a family with a vic 20 or zx or cpc was very posh

ntlbell

Mordeth wrote: »

do you honestly think you weren't being a sarky bitch?


we can handle differences of opinion, it's idiots that get my goat.

I realise now Carlow was below the belt!

no one lives in Carlow.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i'll take the smell of a sugar factory over the stench of dublins urine soaked streets

oh wiat, the sugar factory is closed down. carlow ftw! you don't have to strategically inhale when you are walking around town