Greens plan to introduce "Carbon Levy" on Motorists

TheBazman

If this government really wants to "save the planet" by forcing us into leaving our cars at home, an adequate public transport system is an absolute necessity. However not alone is this light years away, they are doing nothing to encourage joe public to use the minimal public transport options that are available. Why are Iarnroid Eireann allowed to start charging for parking in commuter towns? Would they not prefer the commuting public to drive to the nearest train station and leave the car there? Why does it cost 4 bloody euro to park at the luas stop in the Red Cow. Surely they want people to use the luas and not clog up the city with congestion and pumping CO2 into the atmosphere as we sit in traffic? It's not like people are going to take advantage of the car park there - there's nothing else around there! Why are there no parking options at the start of the Red Line luas? Surely these are things that should be thought about?

I suppose it's difficult to think about these things when there is a government Merc waiting outside the door for you each morning

old boy

99er seems to have 2 points of view, f.f.s and his own, this is a motors forum,

old boy

a bus stops at the end of my road 6;05 am 8;20 am 5;40 pm 6;54 pm what the hell use is the service to me

parsi

ninty9er wrote: »

Consumption taxes such as VRT, VAT and auxilliary taxes affect consumer behaviour. People seem to forget they have a choice as to what they consume. If you can't afford it or it becomes more expensive then don't buy it.

Excellent so that applies to Health Insurance, Electricity, Gas, Tolls, Road Tax, Refuse Charges, Passport fees, Rates - all of which have increased immensely during the lifetime of the FF Gov.

Consumption taxes are a blind - they affect the lower-paid way more than the Golden Circle who frequent the FF Tent at the Galway races. Of course they did a u-turn on the great consumption tax that is stamp duty in order to save their building buddies.

So the recent road tax hikes will cost the average earner way more as a percentage of their wages than it will some property developer or indeed politiican.

hellboy99

parsi wrote: »

So the recent road tax hikes will cost the average earner way more as a percentage of their wages than it will some property developer or indeed politiican.

Bertie will have no problem with the new taxes or price of a '08 Merc due to his recenty pay increase

ninty9er

parsi wrote: »

Excellent so that applies to Health Insurance, Electricity, Gas, Tolls, Road Tax, Refuse Charges, Passport fees, Rates - all of which have increased immensely during the lifetime of the FF Gov.
Consumption taxes are a blind - they affect the lower-paid way more than the Golden Circle who frequent the FF Tent at the Galway races. Of course they did a u-turn on the great consumption tax that is stamp duty in order to save their building buddies.

PM sent...If I really wanted to argue about this stuff publicly I'd use another forum, but most of the FF bashing threads here belong in Politics and not Motors.

Gran Hermano

What are this government playing at; between this carbon footprint
and special rural driving license it's a joke. What's next, Mary Harney
paying joggers to off-set her obesity footprint? How about the Green
Party paying MENSA to off-set their stupidity footprint?

parsi

ninty9er wrote: »

PM sent...If I really wanted to argue about this stuff publicly I'd use another forum, but most of the FF bashing threads here belong in Politics and not Motors.

PM received. It's bad enough getting FF rubbish in the post at election time.... :mad:

ninty9er

Fair enough....can't win. if you call valid argument drivel, ten I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore:rolleyes:

If Ireland became a zero tax state in the morning people would bitch about the €12K they're paying for VHI for a childless married couple or the €1 million Tom and Mary have to pay to put Milly, Fiachra, Pat and Joe through 4 years of college not to mind the previous 18 years.

If you people think you have it bad:rolleyes::rolleyes:

cantdecide

ninty9er wrote: »

Fair enough....can't win. if you call valid argument drivel, ten I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore:rolleyes:

If Ireland became a zero tax state in the morning people would bitch about the €12K they're paying for VHI for a childless married couple or the €1 million Tom and Mary have to pay to put Milly, Fiachra, Pat and Joe through 4 years of college not to mind the previous 18 years.

If you people think you have it bad:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I've said this before (surprisingly:rolleyes:) but a couple of % on the income tax rates and hey presto, no need for the stealth taxes and definitely no need to mash the motorist into the floor in exchange for a few blips weekly that you probably won't even miss...

There's nothing wrong with sensible taxation and no one is saying there is

PauloMN

kbannon wrote: »

Its a pity they didn't think of using the polluter pays principal when designing the recent VRT & motor tax changes!

Totally agree. I, as someone who prefers driving petrol cars, and does maybe 6k miles annually, will have to pay more tax and VRT if I buy a new car than someone who does 30k annually in a diesel and pollutes far more than me.

Green Party = Jokers. Hopefully this pathetic light bulb ban idea will be the death of them. FF = not much better. Unfortunately, for some reason unknown to me, people voted them in to run the country for us.

junkyard

One things for sure though, if this country has to endure anymore stealth taxes very soon we won't have a country to worry about at all. Being self employed myself and speaking to other friends of mine in business the future is not looking good for us as employers or even as businesses, as overheads are crippling us at every turn. It's coming to the stage that we have to review our situation in this country. Another thing you can be sure of is that mankind is not responsible for the global warming that's happening now for the sake of a hundred or so years of pollution, this planet has been warming up for thousands if not millions of years and to suddenly hit us with all sorts of taxes is frankly unbelievable. I have to hand it to the politicans of today, they're pulling off the greatest scam possibly in the history of the world to the detriment of it's workforce .

hellboy99

junkyard wrote: »

Another thing you can be sure of is that mankind is not responsible for the global warming that's happening now for the sake of a hundred or so years of pollution, this planet has been warming up for thousands if not millions of years and to suddenly hit us with all sorts of taxes is frankly unbelievable. I have to hand it to the politicans of today, they're pulling off the greatest scam possibly in the history of the world to the detriment of it's workforce .

+1

what_car

ninty9er wrote: »

PM sent...If I really wanted to argue about this stuff publicly I'd use another forum, but most of the FF bashing threads here belong in Politics and not Motors.

then keep ur feckin FF sig out of the motors forum and stop blabberin FF ****e. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Oilrig

99er...

For your information, a BMW 320D and an Opel Corsa 1.2i will occupy the same carbon emission band under the new regime.

A little more research of the facts before you prattle off populist guff please.

My commute to work has never had a public transport option - believe me when I say I would love one. Strangely, I believe the same applies to the majority of people in this country - i.e. private vehicles will be with us out of necessity for some time to come...

A Prius (for example) would not be eco friendly on my commute either - and before you ask, I've done the sums. I believe I'm somewhat representative of many voters when I say that because of the usual financial commitments I can't consider the option of automatically shelling out on the latest technology in order to be eco friendly. I'll do what I can - because I understand the issues and want to do my bit, but there are limitations.

Important message there for any aspiring politician...

Don't do the send me a PM trick, you made your statements in public, answer the replys in public.

As for taxation... there is no logic to this Gov's taxation policy re vehicles. FF are doing the usual trick of using the Greens/PD's to increase revenue/make unpopular decisions etc that they can disown at the appropriate juncture.

Can't remember who posted it but:

We are not heading into a recession! We are facing a slow down in growth, not a decrease.

Oilrig. Not party political.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

parsi

I've said it before...a drop of 1% on the tax band gives the average earner not a whole lot extra but gives Berties Buddies way way more.

That benefit from the 1% drop is of even less benefit to the average earner if it is accompanied by savage rises in additional items esp items which were once covered by general taxation.

That is the lie that has been sold to the Irish public - we'll reduce the headline rate of tax but hike up everything else.

Does a road tax hike of eur100 affect a family on 43,000 p.a. more than a family on 430,00 p.a (with additional undeclared..) ? You bet ya.

unkel

maidhc wrote: »

They don't have the balls to do something which could seriously hit our competitiveness and have a massive inflationary effect... God, they must be cowards!

FF rhetoric taken one step further

I was only proposing a budget / inflation neutral solution. Bump excise and drop motor tax and VRT. Make all civil servants in the area of motor tax and VRT collection / administration redundant. This will boost our competitiveness, not hit it...

galwaytt

ninty9er wrote: »

PM sent...If I really wanted to argue about this stuff publicly I'd use another forum, but most of the FF bashing threads here belong in Politics and not Motors.

then do us all a favour and take it off to the politics forum. As mentioned before, you're trolling, and waving that FF banner is nothing short of inciteful.

And if you tell us that it hasn't got you stick in the past, then, frankly, I don't believe you. We all hear the tirades from the Tribunals on the news too, y'know.........

And for what it's worth, and to paraphrase the McDonald's ad: more than 225 gmCO2/km..........and lovin' it !!

ninty9er

Read me clearly.

My sig is not forum specific. It is there to promote something that I believe in.

Some of you are selling stuff, I'm promoting my political party. I've been at the short end of a minister's wedge as recently as yesterday, but I believe in a party that will exist far longer than that minister or even me. Now that that's clear....

I never said that a 1.2l Corsa and a 320D weren't in the same band, so stop spinning me stuff I already know or making out I said or inferred things when I didn't.

I'm NOT trolling if you belive I am then stop feeding the troll!!

A headline decrease in growth is technically recession and that is what our newspapers are on about.

oilrig wrote: »

A little more research of the facts before you prattle off populist guff please.

Edit: I'm not looking for a fight, and I have not now, nor have I ever claimed to be making statements here on behalf of the government. So if you wish to call it "drivel", thanks Parsi:p, then do not label it FF drivel, it's MY drivel.

cantdecide

Having a FF sig is fine in itself but FFS, bringing it into an IRISH MOTORING forum is a little like wearing a swastika to synagogue.

As long as the green pretence allows the government to increase revenues on the continually overburdened and generally ignorant Irish motorist (I'd do it too, in their position- we just take it no matter how bad it gets), there will always be an anti-FF undertone here- it's inevitable. If you are that surprised- go to the flower-arranging forum or the nose-picking forum becasue as keen and informed motrists (and probably a fair share of environmentalists), this place is no haven for FF.

Lumping further taxes onto the Irish motorist is like taxing shoes- we need them, we don't have a choice about it and the government knows it too well to change it. It's not a grand strategy- it's opportunism.

junkyard

What are FF using these days to brainwash ye ninty9er? Is it hypnosis or chemically induced? How can you honestly stand your ground and support these f**king crooks, can you really not see what they're up to?:rolleyes: Here's the new FF logo for ya ninty9er321861495a3856880410b265819227ml.jpg

JHMEG

99er, I can't help but notice you knock FG and Labour at any given opportunity. You even have nick names for them that I wasn't aware of.

I also notice that you're in Ógra FF, which is for juniors. And you drive a small Opel Corsa and can't get insurance on a 2.0 FTO. So, what age are you.. 20 or so?

Now, it's been more than 10 years since FG or Lab were in govt. Meaning if my maths are right you were 10 years old, or less, the last time they were in power. So what you have to say about the opposition is meaningless, and your single minded devotion to the only party who have been in power since you came of age is senseless, narrowminded etc etc etc. You say FF are great, but it's only cos someone else told you so.

Altho if you want to succeed in a society in which a significant minority are FF sympathisers, maybe the best thing to do is to toe the party line. No hope of getting that land rezoned residential, or getting PP for a hotel in the grounds of a national monument, or no chance of being able to sell Irish gas to Irish people over a network paid for by Irish taxpayers, at inflated market rates.

I voted for FF once. Then they screwed up the country and now I vote for anyone I think might be able to fix it (Greens, FG and Lab in last election).

Oilrig

"I never said that a 1.2l Corsa and a 320D weren't in the same band"

True, (but I would wager that you didn't know it until it was pointed out to you either...) but you implied that anyone driving a BMW (or similar) was not eco friendly... standard stuff.

"A headline decrease in growth is technically recession"

I suggest you run this statement, through your contacts, by the Dept. of Finance before you make such proclamations... doing a solo run on this one will not endear you to "the party"

"Edit: I'm not looking for a fight" Neither am I mate,

I prefer to pick on those who are in my weight...

ninty9er

Oilrig wrote: »

"I never said that a 1.2l Corsa and a 320D weren't in the same band"

True, (but I would wager that you didn't know it until it was pointed out to you either...) but you implied that anyone driving a BMW (or similar) was not eco friendly... standard stuff.

I used an S600 as my example, not a BMW. I think you'll find the S600 pollutes somewhere in the region of 300g/km,

EDIT: 340 to be precise!!

Oilrig wrote: »

"A headline decrease in growth is technically recession"

I suggest you run this statement, through your contacts, by the Dept. of Finance before you make such proclamations... doing a solo run on this one will not endear you to "the party"

Talk to Anthony Leddin. Well respected in the field of Economics, he may give you a short tutorial on recession!

"The Party" doesn't consist of just 77 people sitting in a chamber in a big house in Dublin...

astraboy

galwaytt wrote: »

This entire 'eco-friendly' thing has got out of control............what about people, and their entitlements to a decent comfortable life based on the fruits of their labours??

well said mate. I do think we have a responsibility towards the environment, but this whole aspect of questioning everything over carbon has gotten out of hand. Another tax on petrol or diesel should not be introduced. More efficient cars coming on stream and oil at 100 dollars a barrel should ensure people make changes. Also, people can only make certain changes while public transport is as expensive and inefficient as it is. Compare going from Cork to Dublin on the train and by air, guess which is far cheaper?

Also, we are heading for a slowdown, but a recession may still not happen. Growth will slow, but it may not go into negative growth. Slapping on further taxes when the economy is in its current state is not a bright move.

Seth Brundle

That may well be true astraboy but the simple fact is that the Government are facing hefty fines for missing Carbon targets and/or buying carbon credits. The motorist is the chosen one to pay for most of this.

astraboy

kbannon wrote: »

That may well be true astraboy but the simple fact is that the Government are facing hefty fines for missing Carbon targets and/or buying carbon credits. The motorist is the chosen one to pay for most of this.

That again, is an issue. Other then the fact that we are a small nation and what we do will have negagiable impact on global warming anyway(even if we all stopped driving our cars totally), I hate seeing the motorist as yet another soft touch. I realize that we as a country can set an example for the rest of the world to follow, but why o why are we not looking at other areas such as nuclear power? This again would incite the greens that want us all living back in mud huts. The fact of the matter is most people in Ireland have a car as they NEED one to do basic everyday things, and more people are buying them as we are both more affluent and public transport is less and less desirable, easy to use and cost effective.

Also slightly off topic, but these fines for Kyoto we are to pay, who does that money go to and to what causes is it administered to?

junkyard

Did I read somewhere that the Kyoto protocol was optional and is anybody keeping a tab on how much and where the money collected is really going? Tbh, it sounds like a nice little earner to me for those in the know.

Seth Brundle

The motorist is a soft touch because we let it happen. The Irish are crap at protesting and when something we don't like happens, we bitch about it for a bit and then bend over and take it.
As for the green party - these idiots are in control in Germany where they are reducing the number of nuclear power stations and increasing capacity in fossil fuel powered stations. What hope is there here?
As for fines, I think they go to the EU - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol#European_Union