Best set of knives for an aspiring cook

L31mr0d

I'm looking to get a set of knives for my wife as a present. She likes to dabble in all types of different cuisines but I often hear her grumbling in the kitchen about how rubbish the knives we have are. I guess if i'm honest she has been dropping hints for years that she wants a new set but I hadn't really noticed, it was only recently when trying to simply cut a tomato that I realised how truly rubbish the set we have are. Whenever I told her just to buy a new set of knives she would say that its a waste of money, and we'd be better off saving it.

So i'm looking for recommendations on a good, complete set of knives. It would need to have a cleaver, a bread knife, some steak knives... etc. Preferably in some form of knife block. I'd be budgeting for around €400

All recommendations appreciated

antoniosicily

I'm probably the wrong person who you could ask for knives, but anyway.
I really don't like all the knife sets and all the stuff, a real chef need just a knife, a good and serious knife, even if it's expensive, see this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef%27s_knife

advices? look for "decent chef's knife" here: http://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Confidential-Adventures-Culinary-Underbelly/dp/product-description/0783893183
and read the exceprt

cormie

I was watching a knife expert once and he said that having a set of knives is a waste of time and the best knife to use is one that feels comfortable in your hand and to just keep it nice and sharp, that one good knife is all you need

L31mr0d

but sometimes you need a serated blade and sometimes you need a straight edge. Plus I wouldn't cut my bread with the same knife I use to cut my meat. These knives won't just be for cooking but will be for general use also.

olaola

I'd agree with the one knife thing. You probably have a bread knife at home - they're not expensive. Don't think there is that much point spending money on them either.

Get her one good knife and a sharpener!

L31mr0d

olaola wrote: »

Get her one good knife and a sharpener!

ok well lets say I decide to get her just one good knife. What good knife should I get?

Mr Magnolia

Wusthof all the way for me.

L31mr0d

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Wusthof all the way for me.

yeah I believe i've come across them while searching, any recommendation on where to get them? My wife really isn't a person who rocks the knife when chopping, more of a straight up and down chopper. What would be the best knife for this?

Beruthiel

The Japanese apparently make the best knives. Some knives are made in the traditional way they used to make their samurai swords.
While in France I bought two japanese knives, they will cut anything and are fantastic.

mountain

Hi,

Rory Conner, in Bantry, West Cork, makes beautiful, very well made knives,
you have a choice of styles, finishes and so on.

Just found a website for him http://www.roryconnerknives.com/

they really are great.

Mr Magnolia

L31mr0d wrote: »

yeah I believe i've come across them while searching, any recommendation on where to get them? My wife really isn't a person who rocks the knife when chopping, more of a straight up and down chopper. What would be the best knife for this?

Brown Thomas is the only place I've seen them in Ireland. I'd avoid buying knives on-line, too many immitations. They've a range to suit all requirments.

antoniosicily

I would go for a German or Japanese knife

L31mr0d

Having a look online, Amazon seems to have a good range of Henckle knives. Anyone used them or can vouch for how good they are?

olaola

Try Kitchen Compliments on Chatham St.

I'd go in and have a poke around - lift the knives and see what they feel like in your hand. I've got a fairly crappy Kitchen Devil one - but it's the perfect size in my hand and I keep it razor sharp. I'd say go for a 16/20 cm cooks knife: http://www.kitchencomplements.ie/kc/Main/Product.asp?iProductID=404

I got this as a pressie : http://cgi.ebay.ie/TALA-BRAND-NEW-KNIFE-SHARPENER_W0QQitemZ160116657263QQihZ006QQcategoryZ116005QQcmdZViewItem
And I find it great - it has a stone in it, and if you're not used to sharpening knives it's fool-proof. I think it was bought in Arnotts.

Kintarō Hattori

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Wusthof all the way for me.

I have one of these and its fantastic. There's a place near Connolly station that sells them.

rockbeer

No knife, no matter how expensive, will be good for any length of time unless you learn how to keep it sharp. It's only worth buying decent knives if you're prepared to maintain them, otherwise it's a complete waste of time and your new knives will be just as rubbish as your old ones before you know it.

So if you're going to invest in new knives I would advise you to invest in a sharpening system at the same time and be sure to use it often. Those ones where you pull the knife through a set of wheels are designed to ruin the cutting edge. A diamond steel is better, and essential for maintenance, but some decent stones and perhaps some guides are really the business for getting your knives up to scratch.

For all you could ever want to know about sharpening knives:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm

If you're planning on spending more than a trivial amount of cash, I recommend you read it before you buy.

FWIW I second the suggestions to buy Japanese.

bonkey

L31mr0d wrote: »

Having a look online, Amazon seems to have a good range of Henckle knives. Anyone used them or can vouch for how good they are?

Henckels (aka Zwilling) are a good Solingen make, very much comparable to Wusthof.


TBH, if you're moving from cheap, crappy knives, I'd recommend you do it in two stages.

Buy yourself one or two reasonably-good-but-not-top-end knives. Victorinox is a good compromise here...easy to find, not too expensive, good enough to be used by trainee (and qualified) chefs.

Get something to keep them sharp with (I use a steel regularly and a stone occasionally and it works just fine...but if you want a more foolproof solution, there's no end of "foolproof" gadgets out there).

Make sure you have proper chopping surfaces - wood or softish plastic. Stone, glass etc. might look cool as surfaces, but they destroy knife-edges like you wouldn't believe.

Once you're set up, use those knives for anything from a few months to a year or three. If you don't keep them sharp, then don't buy more expensive knives. If you find you love them, then don't buy more expensive ones. If, however, you find them better-but-not-perfect, then you should try figuring out what the problems are. Don't like the grip, maybe? Or the balance? Maybe the weight? Now you've got something to work on in figuring out what the "right" knives for you are. Take the time then to find the right knife.

Also...as well as hefting knives in a shop, whenever you're at someone's house and find yourself in their kitchen, have a squint at what they have, and if you don't know them, give them a heft. If you have a chance, chop something with them.

Good knives are expensive. Most have tradeoffs. Japanese blades typically reach higher hardness levels, but at the cost of being more prone to rust, or being less flexible. Sometimes they also have a different blade-profile (e.g. concave or assymetrical) which is far harder to maintain yourself. Ceramic knives are wickedly sharp, ultra-light and fragile.

Whatever you spend big bucks on...its worth taking the time to get it right.

L31mr0d

thanks for all the advice, but my problem is these knives aren't for me and they are a present so i'd like to buy something nice. It would be comparable to buying someone a cubic zirconia, asking them to try it out and see if they like wearing it before buying them a diamond. The surprise of giving them a diamond straight out the gate is the whole point of the present.

Upon coming across Henckels knives I remembered my wife mentioning, whilst at her sisters house, that she liked them as her sister had a chefs knife by them. So i'm kinda set on getting Henckel now as I know a knife is a personal thing to a cook and she has previously expressed that she liked this brand.

Also in regard to sharpeners, would this one be any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Henckels-Twin-Select-Sharpener-Duo/dp/B00008WV9H/ref=pd_sim_dbs_kh?ie=UTF8&qid=1199369451&sr=1-12

lucylu

Superquinn had an offer on Ross Lewis Knife Set last year 49 euro with tokens. They were selling them for 99 without tokens and I did see them on sale in supervalu too..
Excellent knives and carving fork and knife sharpener in a wooden block.. 5 knives I think

bonkey

L31mr0d wrote: »

thanks for all the advice, but my problem is these knives aren't for me and they are a present so i'd like to buy something nice. It would be comparable to buying someone a cubic zirconia, asking them to try it out and see if they like wearing it before buying them a diamond. The surprise of giving them a diamond straight out the gate is the whole point of the present.

I take your point, but just to explain where I was coming from....

I know that while my wife would be pleasantly suprised at getting a diamond, she doesn't actually like them and wouldn't wear them. So if I was going to find what precious stones to buy someone, I'd find out (first) what precious stones they like....which is effectively what I was trying to recommend regarding knives.

Upon coming across Henckels knives I remembered my wife mentioning, whilst at her sisters house, that she liked them as her sister had a chefs knife by them. So i'm kinda set on getting Henckel now as I know a knife is a personal thing to a cook and she has previously expressed that she liked this brand.

Now we're in business! Henckels it should be then. If you can, give the sister a shout and ask her if she knows what range she has herself.

Henckels 4-star are my "second set" of knives, and they're good, although I'm not a fan of the grips....which I think are the same as on the 5-star set. Their "Professional" range looks to have more traditional grips.

As others have suggested, you might be better going for a single chefs knife (aka cuisine knife) than a set. If your wife is set as an "up-down" chopper, and isn't likely learn the other range of cutting styles, a Santoku might be worth considering instead (if Henckels do them).

Also in regard to sharpeners, would this one be any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Henckels-Twin-Select-Sharpener-Duo/dp/B00008WV9H/ref=pd_sim_dbs_kh?ie=UTF8&qid=1199369451&sr=1-12

You won't go far wrong getting a sharpener from the same manufacturer as the blade. It'll be easier to get used to than learning to steel and stone will. It *might* wear the blade a touch faster, but given that the lifetime for a good blade should be in decades (if not lifetimes), I wouldn't lose too much sleep.

mountain

Hi,

I know I am repeating myself here but,
rory conner, will make a knife for you, you choose the size, handle, finish, weight,
They really are handmade to what you want. Plus they will be unique to your wife. You can have carving, bread, peelers or whatever.


Michael

Mr Magnolia

Michael, one post is enough to advertise a manufacturer.

Thanks.

Chargle

As a chef, I have used a lot of different brands of knives. As someone said before, if you buy a good knife you must be prepared to maintain it. A blunt good/expensive/cool knife is just as useless as a blunt cheap/crap knife. Buy a stone (you can buy cheap ones for a fiver, they all do the same job) and buy a diamond steel (can get them for around 20-30 euro) to keep it honed. Sharpen on a stone maybe weekly (depends on how much you use the knife) and hone on a steel before you use it (all the time). You can look up the angles and all that online. Then you should have a razor sharp knife.

The brands I have come to love are Wusthof (the all-rounder, iron workhouse of them all) and of course Global (the pretty boy newcomer). I find wusthof's have a very thin blade and are very easy to maintain. Plus they have different ranges for different budgets (the budget range being VERY reasonable for what you get). And Globals? They're just really sexy and expensive knives that are nonetheless razor sharp.

Wustof have a massive range in Sweeney O'Rourkes on Pearse street and I really only know of Globals in Brown Thomas. The different locations speak volumes!

bonkey

Seeing as Chargle mentioned diamond steels....

Anyone got any info on the relative merits of the different types of steel (diamond, ceramic, etc.) ???

Chargle

i've tried all types of steels (stainless, diamond and ceramic) and the best and easiest to use has to be the diamond. Because of the rough nature of the ground diamond dust, it takes a much more aggressive edge than the others. I found I could'nt maintain a good edge with a stainless steel, eh, steel and likewise with the ceramic one. The ceramic could also break if dropped and that did'nt appeal to me very much.
Having said that, I have only used a cheap ceramic one and I know that there are better ones out there. But why spend more money on something that could break that easily?

Mr.Boots

I think Wusthoff's are the best....realy good german steel.
The Globals are ok....i find the handles uncomfortable and the steel brittle (all show and no go)
Ceramic is the way to go for sharpening, just dont drop it.
As for how many knives do you need?? i think 3 cover most jobs, a filleting knife, a bread knike and a 8/10 inch chefs knife.

BaZmO*

rockbeer wrote: »

For all you could ever want to know about sharpening knives:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm

Really good link there rockbeer. I always thought the purpose of a Steel was to actually sharpen the knife but technically not so. Ya learn a new thing every day.


Any opinions on Sabatier knives?

rockbeer

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I think Wusthoff's are the best....realy good german steel.
The Globals are ok....i find the handles uncomfortable and the steel brittle (all show and no go)
Ceramic is the way to go for sharpening, just dont drop it.

Knives, as somebody else said, are always a trade-off between different charactersitics of the metal used. The steel used in Wusthoffs is much softer than that used in most Japanese knives - typically 4 or 5 or even 6 Rockwell points softer which may not sound like much but is very significant. The trade off with softer steel being, of course, that it is easy to sharpen but won't keep it's edge nearly as long so more maintenance is needed.

As you say, harder steel can be more brittle which is not so good if you drop your knives. Not that you should be dropping them if you're attached to your feet.

Then there's the whole stainless-carbon discussion, Stainless being nice 'cos it doesn't stain (duh) but hard to give a keen edge and reluctant to maintain it.

I like my Tojiro DPs - hard carbon steel for the blade sandwiched between layers of stainless for the look and maintainability. You used to be able to get them from http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ but they don't seem to do them any more.

Agree with Chargle about diamond steels (I actually mentioned them first bonkey but I'm trying not to take it personally )... nothing else so easy or quick. Ceramic imho is all about the fashion not the function. Why spend hundreds on something that is bound to get dropped eventually in a busy kitchen? Sure it's fine if you want to hang it on the wall for your friends to admire, but for actual everyday use diamonds are forever.

BaZmO* wrote:

Any opinions on Sabatier knives?

Sabatiers are a weird one... there are loads of different companies making "sabatier" knives due I believe to a failure to register the original business name way back when. If you get good ones they're up there with the best, but you want to know what you're buying. Some are really quite cheap and nasty.

BaZmO*

rockbeer wrote: »

Sabatiers are a weird one... there are loads of different companies making "sabatier" knives due I believe to a failure to register the original business name way back when. If you get good ones they're up there with the best, but you want to know what you're buying. Some are really quite cheap and nasty.

Yeah I've heard that there are a lot of copies about, that's why I asked. Thing is, how do you know a copy from an original?

L31mr0d

I feel the discussion is going over my head a little, lol :rolleyes:

I've decided on this set of knives from Henckel:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Henckels-Professional-Piece-Block-Set/dp/B0000ACOV1/ref=sr_1_41?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&qid=1199815383&sr=1-41

I can be guaranteed my wife will instantly recognise them as a quality brand of knife as she knows of Henckle. Maybe i'll get her Wusthof if these ones don't work out.

My problem now is, amazon.co.uk won't ship these to Ireland Does anyone else know of other e-tailers or stockists in Ireland that sell Henckle knives?

BaZmO*

L31mr0d wrote: »

I feel the discussion is going over my head a little, lol :rolleyes:

Ahh, the joys of asking a question on the internet!! You ask a question and get the answer to 20 other questions you never asked!!