ATH3: The first verbal bitchslap of 08'

Bounty Hunter

after a couple of weeks absence due to my fubar computer:( im back and with me is the return of Around The Horn to boards.ie

ATH1 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176157
ATH2 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055187277

Around The Horn(ATH) is an american show on ESPN where a number of panelists/experts make arguments an a certain topic. The host awards points for each response depending on how well argued their point is, not neccesarily if he agrees with their point (although that helps) but how well they back up their argument. Obviously the winner is the person with the highest number of points at the end of the show. This format should work quite well here if anyone is interested, afterall there are a number of people here who like to think of themselves as experts on all things wrestling related, here is a chance to prove it.

I will post the first of 5 topics tommorow and you will have two days before round two (so three days now to decide on participation and enter your first answer). If you need info on the rules check the above linkes to the previous threads, i will also post a brief rundown prior to round 1 beginning.

Former Champs are Vince135792003 & Rosie1977, will we have a two time champ or will a new contender emerge

Fozzy

Count me in this time

Bounty Hunter

nice hope to get more of the established posters giving it a try and now with Fozzy in its more likely... who wouldent want to beat a wrestling mod to being champion.

Rjd2

I shall attempt this as well.

Bounty Hunter

I said id post a brief rundown of the rules before Rd1 starts (Thursday) so....

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within 48hrs (before the next round begins), take care while making your responses however as other contestants can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement once, although you can counter as many different peoples arguements as much as you want (but only once each). if someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them plus someone else might continue to question it in your place.

*You can use the same answer as a previous poster if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

each poster is marked out of 20 each round for a total of five rounds. If you miss a round (it happens) you can still submit an answer to that rounds question however because you missed the deadline in between rounds your late answer will only be marked out of 10.

thats essentially all rules, it should be fairly straightforward but if you are still unsure on anything refer to the links in my first post and see how it worked previously.

I'm new here... But I'd be happy to kick their asses at having a logical debate.

in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



"we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

RichieLawlor

Deleted User wrote: »

in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



"we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

Im lookin forward to having a go at this guy:D:D

krudler

Deleted User wrote: »

in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



"we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

prepare to be eaten alive:D

Cactus Col

I'm gonna join in for this one!

I make no promises for success, but, like Matt Hardy (one of my favourite wrestlers of the year) I'll do my best for the fans

I'd like to dedicate this to you guys...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dntsig8RcAA

Bubs101

Deleted User wrote: »

in your first link, "a-hole" posted this:



"we can safely state HBK is the most consistent performer in the history of WWE/F if you look at his 02-07 days they consist of the eppic fude agenst hhh his return at sumerslam was the best raw match of the year and continuing to carry hhh through his inguary to an imence 2outa3 match was amesing then to have the match of mania with y2j blue everybody away then raws wrighting got stagnent for a few munths but he still managed to elevate ortan to ledgand killer while having a fantastic match with flair skip to surviver series and the match that turned into a 3on1 match for stonecold blue everyone away. skip on to wm and backlash in brilent tripple treaths with benoit and hhh he showed how good he was raw matches with jbl and cena before survivor series showed how good he was. till today where he pulls fantastic matches out of ortan (never mind the ending)
then we go back to the ninthys where he dominated 80% of ppvs pulling fantastic matches out of vader deasal and sid with his everlasting and unbeliving fude with the undertaker, his 1hour+ match with breat and folys best match at mind games.
then we go back to the rockers we have it hard to find a more consistant worker than hbk over so many years"



So if I'm gonna take part in this, can you guys at least spell-check your replies? No offence to a-hole, but i mean.. ortan? blue people away? breat? deasal? thats just... yeah...


Also, I don't wana sound too mature before whippin' ass, but can you guys also establish a difference between fact and opinion?


Kane is the best wrestler on the roster and his match with khali at mania was the best of 07.


Thats an opinion (not a believable one, but an opinion all the same) not a fact.

Reality Check

Bounty Hunter

Alright here we go
----

ATH:Round 1
Q.There are very few managers in the WWE at the moment, but if you had the opportunity to give a Wrestler a manager, which Wrestler would you pick? and who would you get to manage them? Also why would a manager and this one in particular be of such benefit to your chosen superstar?

----

good luck to all and welcome to all the new competitors/posters.

Charlie

Hey BH,

You can count me in for this one, but I want to clarify something. Presumably the superstar must be a current member of the wwe roster, but does the manager?

Bounty Hunter

Hey CmH

superstar should be a current member of the roster, manager however doesent have to be.

OK, Interesting question.


Before i scanned over the WWE roster I kinda knew who i was going to pick, and i stick by him.

Someone who has been getting pushed to the bottom rungs of the roster slowly over the past while and has recently been "demoted" to ECW.. My Superstar in distress would have to be none other than Shelton Benjamin.

Shelton would be accompanied to the ring by... William Regal.


My reasons for choosing?

Well lets look at it realistically. Everyone thinks that Shelton has the potential to one day be WWE's future. But others say he is bad at cutting promos and doing work on the mic, which is true, and is what has caused him to fall so drastically. Lets face it: Shelton Benjamin is as bland as mic-worker as there is.

On the flip side..

Regal has had amazing matches in the past, and is currently a great comedy character whose excellent timing on the mic and in promos has people laughing every time. However, he also portrayed to us, very successfully, i might add, a very royal English snob.

Pair them together and what have you got? Two guys that can work off each other perfectly.


OK, So lets say we can't re-package them. Take a look at Shelton as of late (before his ECW disaster, which i haven't seen much of to be honest).

We give Shelton back his intro gear from his recent world's greatest tag team stint (the white tracksuit with blue fiery detailing and his sunglasses). We leave regal as he is, but revert him back to his 2001 ways.

So we now have a heel team. A cool looking black dude with his own custom clothing, and a royal english man who looks down on the spectators.

A perfect couple really.

Benjamin can come to the ring accompanied by william regal. William Regal can curse the crowd before and after matches, and between Regal's mic time, Shelton Benjamin can do his usual amazing ring work.


In order to get these guys over more, in title matches for example, Regal can become active (he is an established wrestler, so it wouldnt be odd to see him getting involved).

Its looking like Benjamin is going to lose the match, his opponent bounces off the ropes, climbs the turnbuckles or whatever and regal can use his trademark brass knuckles to knock the face down, allowing Benjamin to get the upper hand and take the victory. Also in cases were a face might have a manager, Regal can also be used in tag team matches and so forth.


Makes sense to me.

(NOTE: This is my first time doing this ATH thing, so if I'm after breaking the rules of the game or whatever, just let me know )


***EDIT***

Dammit, i thought they both had to be on the roster. Ah well, I stick by my choices.

gimmick

Right, Ill try stay the curse this time, but my WWE knowledge is waning somewhat due to my not having too much interest in it anymore.

However, I would put Prince Nana in with Shelton Benjamin. Nana, from what i have seen of him in ROH is a very charismatic automatic heel who can talk and talk and generates good heat very quickly. The reason I would put him with Benjamin is because Benjamin has proven he cannot cut it on his own. He is a decent wrestler with a good look but we know that a wrestler without decent charisma rarely makes the top. Chris Benoit is the only exception, but his World Title reign is widely believed to have played 2nd fiddle to the HHH/HBK fued.

Benjamin is someone who could hugely do with a good, realistic sidekick (unlike his mama a few years ago :rolleyes:). Prince Nana is that man.

Charlie

Personally, I feel that managers are best utilized when you have a wrestler, who either isn't great on the mic or, their character is such, that a mouthpiece manager makes sense. Further, I believe that such combos work best as heels.

Therefore, I propose that Booby Lashley be managed by Jim Cornette.

Its plain to see that the wwe see Lashley as one of the top tier guys, and he certainly has the look and wrestling background for this. However, he is terrible on the mic (he has a really gay voice), and is a bland babyface, with the latter being a result of the former.

I genuinely believe that Lashley could work as a killing machine heel (e.g Brock, early Taker, masked Kane etc). But he doesn't have the mouth for it. I believe that if the viewing public are going to have Lashley as one of their main eventers, it might as well be done right, and having someone like Cornette as Lashley's mouthpiece could achieve this.

Cornette is one of the best talkers in the business. He was phenomenal at drawing Heat for the Midnight Express, and cut some great promos during the otherwise dull mid 90's WWF.

Cornette would give credibility to Lashley as a heel, and would ensure that when Lashley is put in a program with someone, there could be some interesting promos in the build.

Imagine a face Lashley feuding with Randy Orton, i can see those 4 weeks of raw being real interesting :rolleyes:. However, imagine a heel Lashley with Cornette as his mouthpiece manager in a feud with Chris Jericho, great viewing.

Bottom line, if Cornette was Lashley's manager, he could give Lashley the push, but more importantly, the credibility he badly needs in many fans eyes, in order to become a worthy main eventer (and maybe teach booby a few things about how to cut a promo). Look at what Heyman was able to do for Brock.

In respect of KKV's choice, I would argue against for two reasons.

One, Regal is a fantastic GM, and as KKV points out, great on the mic. With Regal as a wrestlers manager, presumably his on-screen time would be much more limited then what it currently is, which for me, is not a good thing.

Secondly, and more importantly, it just doesn't fit. I cannot see the two having any sort of chemistry, and to me it wouldn't be believable that regal (the character) would want to manage Shelton, or Shelton would want him as his manager. One is a cocky young black male, the other is stiff upper lip, pretentious Brit. Shelton seems like the type regal would cast as being dastardly. Sure, it could be interesting for 1 or two Raw's. but after that i just don't see it working.

EDIT: Just saw gimmick's post after I posted. I can't really comment, as I have never seen this Prince Nana, but i will say this. Contrary to what most think, i actually believe that Shelton has it in him to cut his own promo's and move up the ladder. I just think wwe haven't found a suitable character for him. If anyone knows Terrell Owens (T.O) of NFL fame, I believe that shelton could model himself after T.O and develop a successful character. T.O is an outspoken wide-receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. He has a chip on his shoulder, often taking the 'everyone is against me' attitude. He is flash, cocky, and is some would say greedy. I believe that Shelton could portray such a character in the wwe.

Can I go again?

I mean.. I had one half-written that was much better. But then i realised that the manager i had chosen wasn't in WWE.

I assumed when bounty wrote "There are very few managers in the WWE at the moment" that we had to stick solely to WWE's current day roster


I was wrong.

Bounty Hunter

Seing as you are new and i have not started grading any answers yet if you wish and nobody objects you can edit your original answer for this 2nd one you had written. However after this one you will only get one chance to answer each round.

Well does anyone object?

I mean, I don't mind fighting the Regal corner, I'll make the best of it if i have to, but Knowing it wasn't my original choice is a bit of a kick in the ass.

Fozzy

The wrestler in WWE who I think could make most use of a manager right now is Randy Orton. He's got the in-ring skills, he's got the presence, but he doesn't quite have the promo skills. He often sounds repetitive on the mic and he's not on the same level as his opponents. Cena, Michaels and Jericho are all well able to hold their own on the mic (even if what they're given to say isn't always that great). Those guys all have a certain charisma about them that Orton just doesn't have

So, for Randy's mouthpiece, I would pick Larry Sweeney. If you haven't seen him in action on the mic before, here's a short promo by him: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jphL3csDXOs There's plenty of his promos on Youtube, but most of them are done by him for himself, as he's usually a wrestler. But in ROH he's a manager and he's just as good at cutting them on behalf of others, often even better as he's got more to say

If anyone read or heard any of the many interviews with Jericho before he returned to WWE, he was often asked which guys not currently in WWE impress him the most. Larry Sweeney was always at the top of his list, Jericho compared him to a modern-day Bobby Heenan. He's not the only person who I've heard make that comparison either. I'd have picked Bobby Heenan himself for this answer, only that he's not really able to talk properly these days due to losing some of his tongue and unfortunately he just wouldn't cut it with most of the WWE audience because of that

Jericho said that it's unfortunate that Larry's small and so good on the mic as it makes it unlikely that he'll ever get to WWE, which is true. If WWE ever did decide to use some more managers but still push the big guys, then Sweeney would have to be near the top of their list for managers. He's a lot shorter than Orton, which would still leave Orton with his presence and even looking more imposing during promos

Since Orton is a heel, a manager like Sweeney is perfect for him. Sweeney's a great heel and it would make sense for him to get involved in Orton's matches at times. Some of the matches recently where Orton lost by DQ (leaving a bad taste in people's mouths) could have actually lead to something, with the challengers eventually getting their hands on Sweeney for causing the DQ. And that's the great thing about male managers, they can give a payoff in the end by getting beaten up by the face, unlike female managers

Sweeney's not a bad wrestler so he could be put in against one of Orton's challengers who's had enough of the interference. The last time I remember this happening in WWE was when Paul Heyman kept getting in Brock Lesnar's way when he was feuding with Kurt Angle. When Brock got that cage match on SD against Heyman the fans loved it. Sweeney could also work tag team or six-man tags with Orton

The main thing is that Orton's weakness is his mic work. Sweeney's mic work stands right up there with any of the best talkers today, and he's got experience in being a manager and in talking up wrestlers other than just himself. The perfect fit in my opinion

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Well does anyone object?

I mean, I don't mind fighting the Regal corner, I'll make the best of it if i have to, but Knowing it wasn't my original choice is a bit of a kick in the ass.

I've got no problem. I'd rather see Regal wrestling anyway!

Cactus Col

I've no objection.

Right, the wrestler I see most in need of a manager right now is Kenny Dykstra. This is a wrestler the IWC had been literally creaming themselves over a number of years ago. He had done well in OVW, and has shown himself to be a solid in ring performer, and is okay on the microphone.

However, after the demise of the spirit squad dykstra has been lost in the shuffle, and has found himself playing back up to Victoria on a show without a womens division.

A perfect manager could be found in JBL. Undoubtedly he is the one of the best talkers in the WWE at the moment. Though he has stepped back into the ring recently his wrestling days are numbered, and it is only a matter of time before WWE finds a way to make use of his vocal talents again.

JBL's character could very easily put a young wrestler over, by highlight his wallstreet pedigree, JBL can show not only is he savy investing in the stock market, but also in investing in a young wrestler with huge potential.

Kenny would get the benefit from a new sense of direction, JBL's large in ring experience, and would be better able to develop both his microphone skills, and his on screen character.

I think the main purpose of using a manager is to get the worker over, rather than the manager. JBL has proven, through his commentary on smackdown, that he is more than capable of getting a worker over, while also gaining heat for himself.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

I've got no problem. I'd rather see Regal wrestling anyway!

Screw it, I was gonna pick Daivari (Who would've been a much better choice, really) but I'll defend my Regal choosing.

I might be fighting a losing round.. but theres more than one round anyway.


OK...

charlie mchugh wrote: »

In respect of KKV's choice, I would argue against for two reasons.

One, Regal is a fantastic GM, and as KKV points out, great on the mic. With Regal as a wrestlers manager, presumably his on-screen time would be much more limited then what it currently is, which for me, is not a good thing.

Secondly, and more importantly, it just doesn't fit. I cannot see the two having any sort of chemistry, and to me it wouldn't be believable that regal (the character) would want to manage Shelton, or Shelton would want him as his manager. One is a cocky young black male, the other is stiff upper lip, pretentious Brit. Shelton seems like the type regal would cast as being dastardly. Sure, it could be interesting for 1 or two Raw's. but after that i just don't see it working.

Yes, Regal is a fantastic GM, but if he were to be managing a main event wrestler, then his time would be still consistent. Shelton would need to stay over with the audience, so we'd have to see him regularly anyway in order to keep Benjamin's face out there.

Maybe his time would be slightly limited, but not enough to have him disappear. He would also have to represent Benjamin in backstage angles.


As for your second point:

It would work because i said it would work.

Seriously though,

Wrestling has always had its odd couples. I see your point. But i didn't think we were gonna have to go into that much detail. But whatever, here we go:


William Regal has had a decent WWE stay as an in-ring performer. So as a storyline, he could begin to see that he is losing the spotlight. As someone who knows the business like the back of his hand, he would persuade Shelton Benjamin that he could get him to the top, make him champ. And with that he would be riding Benjamin's coat tails to stardom again. Benjamin would be fine with this as he would have been convinced that William Regal can get him to the top and William Regal would be more than happy too, as he is manipulating Shelton Benjamin, and getting his own star to rise again.

Of course, as is the way with WWE, When benjamin's popularity fades, he'd have learned a few things about mic and promo work from regal and then the two of them could go at it for the belt. Spanned over an 8-12month period they could both become very big names and main eventers on the ECW brand.



Now, i must pose the same question to you... Why would Jim Cornette be managing Black Lesnar?

Cactus Col

Cactus Col wrote: »

I've no objection.

Right, the wrestler I see most in need of a manager right now is Kenny Dykstra. This is a wrestler the IWC had been literally creaming themselves over a number of years ago. He had done well in OVW, and has shown himself to be a solid in ring performer, and is okay on the microphone.

However, after the demise of the spirit squad dykstra has been lost in the shuffle, and has found himself playing back up to Victoria on a show without a womens division.

A perfect manager could be found in JBL. Undoubtedly he is the one of the best talkers in the WWE at the moment. Though he has stepped back into the ring recently his wrestling days are numbered, and it is only a matter of time before WWE finds a way to make use of his vocal talents again.

JBL's character could very easily put a young wrestler over, by highlight his wallstreet pedigree, JBL can show not only is he savy investing in the stock market, but also in investing in a young wrestler with huge potential.

Kenny would get the benefit from a new sense of direction, JBL's large in ring experience, and would be better able to develop both his microphone skills, and his on screen character.

I think the main purpose of using a manager is to get the worker over, rather than the manager. JBL has proven, through his commentary on smackdown, that he is more than capable of getting a worker over, while also gaining heat for himself.

Your reply wasn't there when i began typing.

I must ask though.. Isn't Kenny Dykstra a punk who has no respect for his elders or those who came before him? This would be a complete personality clash on both sides and would, in my opinion, not get Kenny or JBL over as serious wrestlers. If i were to imagine these two together all i can envision
is a few comedy sketches backstage were JBL is trying to teach Kenny about things and kenny shows a complete lack of disinterest. I could never see these two being realistically successful together
as serious grapplers.

Charlie

Deleted User wrote: »

Now, i must pose the same question to you... Why would Jim Cornette be managing Black Lesnar?

That's not how it works my friend. I have already outlined my reasons for my choice. Feel free though to try and deconstruct my argument, like I tried to do with yours.

Cactus Col

In regards to both Charlie McHugh and Fozzy's replies, I think there is a danger of those managers actually weakening the client.

I do see the benefit to both Lashley and Orton by getting in managers.

Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

Heyman and Lesnar worked so well because Lesnar was a nobody at first, and Heyman was able to build him up.

However, when Heyman ditched Lesnar and began managing The Big Show, it really didn't get big show any more over than he was, and certainly didn't get Big show anywhere as near as over as he was when he was at his peak.

Charlie

Cactus Col wrote: »

In regards to both Charlie McHugh and Fozzy's replies, I think there is a danger of those managers actually weakening the client.

I do see the benefit to both Lashley and Orton by getting in managers.

Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

Heyman and Lesnar worked so well because Lesnar was a nobody at first, and Heyman was able to build him up.

However, when Heyman ditched Lesnar and began managing The Big Show, it really didn't get big show any more over than he was, and certainly didn't get Big show anywhere as near as over as he was when he was at his peak.

Whilst your argument probably applies to Orton, i don't think it does with Lashley (obvious of me to say, I know). Orton is main event in most fans eyes, sure, his mic skills aren't the best, but he has been in many big feuds, and is now a time world champion.

Lashley on the other hand is being forced down the fans throat as a main eventer. Do anyone of us actually see the Lashley of present as main event material? Could he, at present, headline Mania? The answer to both questions is no. With respect to Orton though, both questions would be answered in the affirmative.

Thus, I think aligning him with a promo machine like Cornette would actually help him break through that glass ceiling in THE FAN'S EYES, even though he may have already done so in Vince's eyes.

Fozzy

Cactus Col, do you think there'd be any danger of JBL overshadowing Kenny? JBL is a very overbearing character and I think that the fans would just look at JBL as being the star of the two. Think of when JBL had his cabinet. Orlando Jordan and the Bashams didn't get any sort of rub off JBL, even though he was the champ at the time. And look at where they are now! JBL is also a lot larger than Kenny, meaning that a lot of the fans' attention will be drawn more towards JBL. I just couldn't see it working

Cactus Col wrote: »

Both Orton and Lashley are main event level wrestlers. To all of a sudden have somebody come in and do their talking for them could easily detract from them in the eyes of fans. Especially if the manager is a complete unknown, such as Sweeney is to most people.

This is sort of what I just talked about, there's no danger of Sweeney overshadowing Orton. I agree that there's no way that Sweeney could just march on in and be Orton's manager, it wouldn't make sense, especially right now. But with the eventual goal of pairing them up, I'd start Sweeney on ECW with a guy like the Miz or John Morrison, anyone who has a chance at winning the ECW title. Actually, teaming him up with both of them would make sense. All WWE would have to do at first is get over the idea that Sweeney manages successful wrestlers. Have Miz and Morrison hold the SD tag titles, have one of them win the ECW title, have the other win the US title or the Cruiserweight title

You'd need a reason for Orton to hire a manager, and losing the belt would be an obvious one. Have Orton lose the belt and a couple of rematches, then have him hire Sweeney. Have Sweeney's former clients lose their titles soon after, getting over the idea that it was largely due to Sweeney that those guys held their titles

As long as Sweeney is established as a winner in some way and that Orton has a reason for hiring him, then I don't think that Sweeney would detract from him

I just remembered too, they've got experience of working together on Raw! Larry played the part of the fake Nick Hogan before Summerslam in 2006

Bounty Hunter

Seems like there might be a good turnout this time round especially with tommorow as a chance for people (including both former winners) to still catch the 1st round. I would just like to take this opportunity to say to anyone reading this thread but not competing that suggestions for questions to be used would be much appreciated by PM.

Vince135792003

The underlying idea that many have started off with is that you give a manager to a guy who can't talk so that the manager can be his mouth piece.

In alot of cases that's true but not in all cases.

Sometimes even the best talkers in the world need managers just to give them a little bit of extra momentum that they otherwise would not have had.


Good/great talkers have had managers like Bockwinkle (Heenan) Ric Rude (Heenan), Curt Hennig (Heenan again), Terry Funk (Gary Hart) and the Honk tonk Man (Jimmy Hart).

So again my point is that you don't necessarily just give a manger to a guy who can't talk. Sometimes you give them to a wrestler to give them an added momentum to get them to next level.


So under that criteria, I'd put Paul Heyman with MVP.

Now on the face of it, people might question where the chemistry would be between the 2.

Firstly, I've yet to see a guy Heyman didn't have chemistry with and I think Heyman would be tremendous in the "supportive sports agent" role. It's such a perfect role for Heyman and I can see him giving MVP a pep talking in my head right now. The 2 are made for each other. Heyman could even bring back the mobile phone!~!

Heyman is also the kind of person that buys into the person he is manging. This comes across on the tv screen and that really helps in resonating with fans more. For example, when he was talking about Brock Lesnar being the "next big thing", he couldn't have sounded like he meant it anymore and as a result it helped fans buy into the idea too.

Secondly, he's been one of the few successful managers in WWE in recent years. He hasn't always had total success but generally he's been top notch. He was phenomenal with Brock and got more out of the Big Show than I thought was ever possible on both occasions he managed him.


Thirdly, I think MVP has pretty much got everything. He's got the look, charisma, ability in the ring and on the mic and above all else the consistency to be a top guy. Your not risking anything by putting him with Heyman. You'd just be giving him that little bit extra to shoot him to the top.

Double C

All the right answers seem to have been taken, Heyman, Sweeney, Cornette and JBL. Damn you all!

Since we all know I should have won the last one (you know its true Rossie ) I'm gonna enter all the rounds on time this time to avoid any costly penalties. :cool:

Are factions allowed? If they are I'll go with this answer. Ric Flair managing a Four Horsemen-like faction.

The faction would consist of John Morrison as the Flair type. He fits the bill perfectly as the rock star kinda guy. He is very good on the mic himself and excellent in the ring.
The tag team would be Cade and Murdoch. They are the only old school tag team in WWE right now which would appeal to Flair. They are also the best tag team in WWE right now and Flair would really need that kind of pedigree working for him.
The final spot was a tough choice between a number of guys. I've gone for a contraversial pick in Kevin Thorn. His new look is bad ass (see his pic on the ECW superstars page), kinda Sean O'Haire like, minus the roids. I don't know what type of character he's playing on ECW cos I haven't seen it in a while but if he could pull off a cocky Orton-in-the-early-days-of-Evolution type character it could work well. Even a "not normal" kinda character, anything but a vampire really. He's solid in the ring and not bad on the mic as far as I remember, and is the kind of mid card guy that would benefit a lot from a rub from the likes of Flair.

Obviously, they would only work as a heel group so a Flair turn to start it all would be nice. He could help develop Morrison into a genuine main eventer, a position I think he is earmarked for. He would work wonders with a team like Cade and Murdoch. As good as Curdoch are, they are not very over, so Flair as their manager using all those dirty tricks of his would help get them some real heat, and basically get the crowd involved in their matches. The same would apply to Thorn.

There would be a good dynamic between them with Morrison and Murdoch being good on the mic too, and perhaps Thorn could play the oddball of the group, i.e. be the brunt of the jokes and what have you, so the promos would be entertaining. WWE needs factions too. Badly.

Vince135792003

Double C wrote: »

Are factions allowed? If they are I'll go with this answer. Ric Flair managing a Four Horsemen-like faction.

I love Ric Flair but I don't want to see him be a manager right now for a number of reasons. Number one, he basically had that role for about 2 years and I think it would come across as Evolution version 2, which waters down the idea since he's done it before.

Also Ric Flair is on the last stretch of his career and is currently doing a retirement angle. I watched the show from Greensboro and watching him perform there for the last time gave me goosebumps.

And I just think that if he arrived as a manager a month later after the retirement angle, it would cheapen what everyone felt for the 6 months during the storyline.

Plus for me, I'd like to see him retire completely in a match in the ring. I'd like my last real memory of him to be getting a standing ovation at Wrestlemania which if anyone deserves it, it would be Ric Flair. Not walking out with all due respect with Cade/Murdoch to face Carlito and Santino on a just another Raw show.

Machismo Fan

Personally I would put Kane with Father James Mitchell. They would go perfectly together. I think Kane has gone a bit off in recent times so he turns heel to do the bidding of Sinister Minister.

It would give Kane a very good mouthpiece and perhaps push Kane back up right to the top and reignite his fire.

Bubs101

Are tag teams allowed? seeing as this is manager based I don't see why there would be a problem. If yes, Then my pick is Jim Cornette and Cade and Murdoch but I'll refrain from giving an answer until I get the go-ahead.

Actually, strike that, I've just noticed that Cade and Murdoch were used above. I'll go for Regal and Haas

Double C

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I love Ric Flair but I don't want to see him be a manager right now for a number of reasons. Number one, he basically had that role for about 2 years and I think it would come across as Evolution version 2, which waters down the idea since he's done it before.

Also Ric Flair is on the last stretch of his career and is currently doing a retirement angle. I watched the show from Greensboro and watching him perform there for the last time gave me goosebumps.

And I just think that if he arrived as a manager a month later after the retirement angle, it would cheapen what everyone felt for the 6 months during the storyline.

Weren't Evolution just the Horsemen version 2? I know they were from different generations and all, but every wresting angle is basically just some old angle re-hashed. Whether Flair retires completely or comes back on tv in some capacity remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him back after a while. What else is he going to do?! Anyway, it's a hypothetical question and I didn't take current storylines into consideration, I just went with the slim pickings I had left to choose from .

The Sparrow

May as well give this a punt...

I think that really you want a guy down the roster who would actually benefit greatly from having a manager to define their character. I think that the likes of MVP and Randy Orton are doing just fine by themselves. OK neither of them may be the finished article but I think that they have both established themselves and got themsleves over so I don't think that a manager would make too much sense for either of them.

So by that logic I would choose Cody Rhodes. Here is a guy that has a name and that is basically it. I think they did ok in how they brought him in but it is now time to give him his own identity away from Dusty. At the moment he is very cookie-cutter and his promos don't seem anything special, although admittedly he hasn't had much to work with. And the angle with Hardcore Holly was another one of those "lets get the wily veteran to teach the new kid some respect" generic WWE angles for new wrestlers.

So who to manage Cody Rhodes... Well as I mentioned he has to break away from Dusty. So my idea would be to build a few weeks of Dusty interfering too much in Cody's matches and perhaps costing him the odd match here and there and Cody at first playing the devoted son. But eventually Cody would turn on Dusty with his new manager... Arn Anderson.

It is the ultimate rebellion for a son against his father to side with one of his arch-enemies. So Arn and Cody beat up Dusty and take him out and WWE can use that vast tape library to tell all of the history of Dusty and Arn. Obviously there is no value in and Arn v Dusty feud or match here really but an initial turn on Dusty by Cody and then Arn revealed as the mastermind followed by a big beat down that will take Dusty out for at least six months. And then Arn can use some of those legendary mic skills to tell us why Cody Rhodes wanted to get away from Dusty's shadow and establish himself using his own talent.

Arn Anderson imo has been criminally underused by WWE. I mean as far as i know he is still there as a road agent and he would be great giving promos about how he was shaping Cody into something his father never was, a winner. Obviously Cody would immediately get heat for turnning on Dusty and a long unbeaten run along with Arn's promos would really get him over. Hey presto a new star is born and a year later Dusty can return with somebody else new who needs to get over to feud with Cody and his manager Arn Anderson.

Bounty Hunter

ill allow Tag-teams and factions for this question if you wish to go tht route but remember the more people involved the more that can possibly be wrong about what you propose in your response. I will try to be more difinitive in further questions as to what is ok to answer on from now on.

Bubs101

Well, I've decided to avoid Cade and Murdoch for the time being

So, Haas and Regal. Before explaining why I think this is the best combination so far I'll show what in my opinion a manager's function is. First and foremost, a manager is meant to compensate for the speaking elements that the client is normally unable to perform. Secondly, a manager is meant to get the wrestler over, not vice-versa (one huge criticism I'd have of Orton-Sweeney. The champion who has not gelled with anyone bar Edge sudennly takes on a randomer as his manager?That's TNA booking right there). I also feel it is important that the styles of wrestler and manager mix so as to make it plausable to the fans

One of the main reasons I chose Haas is that he is criminally underused. Great technichally he could become the next Benoit or Regal but he has constantly been ranked below his more flashy ex-tag team partner ( who KKV put with Regal, Stylez clash if ever there was one)and been used as a sprinboard for Shelton. They have nothing for him at the moment at all and while Regal is doing well as GM, I don't think they'd miss him with Coach around. Their styles are very similar in the ring. Good technichal chain wrestlers who have tended to cheat for wins.

How I would make it happen? I would just have Haas wrestle three times in a row on Smackdown (don't think anybody would notice if he moved brand and there would be a purpose for the move and seeing as he can't speak a promo is out of the window) and have some good wins. At the same time, I'd have Regal fill in for JBL on commentary and complain about the standard on Smackdown but praise Haas' style and dedication. After the third match and Haas has gotten a more over with fans have Regal come in and shake his hand. Then next week, have Haas losing a match and have Regal leave his position on the desk to use the brass knuckles on his opponent giving Haas a win with assistance. Then have the two cut a promo the next week, strictly Regal speaking explaining his actions and you'd have a good team.

The benefits are multiple. For one, Haas would finally get the push he deserves. He's a hard worker who's been well behaved and has helped his fellow wrestlers out (has performed for Booker's promotion for example). He has earned a push. Secondly, it would add further talent to the U.S. title scene. M.V.P., Mysterio, Haas and Hardy could have great feuds over the title with good solid wrestling. It could become essential T.V. fast and it would be the perfect mix. 2 heels, 2 faces. I would also put Regal on semi-active status and have him in an occasional tag-team with Haas. More Regal in ring would be great. It would get Regal out of comedy skits with Hornswoggle. I also fully believe that Charlie Haas could easily become the next Benoit if he got the push. Also, the WWE has a severe lack of gritty technichal wrestlers since Benoit and Angle are gone so I think Haas would be a perfect fit for the missing slot

EdK

I know Michael Hayes was associated with the Hardys when they started, But i would put the Freebird with Jeff Hardy now, Hardy has the in ring ability and a certain level of charisma to achieve alot in wrestling, but he cant talk

Freebird and himself are both from the same general area they have a past history, Hardy has the in ring skills and Hayes has the ability on the mic to get him over aswell as to tell a story and get an audience interested in a storyline or feud, plus he is still capable of a run in or interference if needs be(hes not too decrepid), so thats my pick

charlie mchugh

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Further, I believe that such combos work best as heels.

Therefore, I propose that Booby Lashley be managed by Jim Cornette.

I really don't see why Lashley would play heel. OK, Jim Cornette could get him over and all, and lashley is just another lesnar/umaga/etc. but why would WWE turn one of their biggest baby-face champions heel?

It wouldn't make much sense. Especially after the McMahon angle recently.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I genuinely believe that Lashley could work as a killing machine heel (e.g Brock, early Taker, masked Kane etc). But he doesn't have the mouth for it. I believe that if the viewing public are going to have Lashley as one of their main eventers, it might as well be done right, and having someone like Cornette as Lashley's mouthpiece could achieve this.

But Kane, Lesnar and Taker were all unique and new. Lashley has been around and is known by fans, and has also been a huge face. Lashley shows compassion and devotion to WWE and pro-wrestling, he loves the fans, he's held the belts... So what would make him turn heel? It wouldn't make sense.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

The wrestler in WWE who I think could make most use of a manager right now is Randy Orton. He's got the in-ring skills, he's got the presence, but he doesn't quite have the promo skills. He often sounds repetitive on the mic and he's not on the same level as his opponents. Cena, Michaels and Jericho are all well able to hold their own on the mic.

I agree, Cena, Jericho and Michaels are superior to Orton in terms of mic-work. However, as has already been said, it wouldn't be credible to suddenly give Orton a manager. Orton sees himself as the future and also firmly believes he is the future on his own. He was won the title alone, he has had decent matches alone, he has elevated to the main event alone... Why would he decide that he needs a manager now?

It wouldn't make sense. Randy Orton can do decent promos sometimes (Mick Foley, 2004) and whilst i do believe he sounds monotonous on the mic, fans have become used to him. He has been cutting promos for too long, and been viewed as a top tier guy for too long for this to be realistic. A tag team partner (like Edge) made sense because he had to take on two people (DX) but in a singles feud, unless he was being bullied by his opponents manager, then I just don't see it helping him out at all.

Fozzy wrote: »

The main thing is that Orton's weakness is his mic work. Sweeney's mic work stands right up there with any of the best talkers today, and he's got experience in being a manager and in talking up wrestlers other than just himself. The perfect fit in my opinion

Again, I understand your point. But It wouldn't work. Randy Orton is too much of a back stabber kinda guy. He doesn't listen to people anyway. He just goes and does what he wants. When he was getting help by Flair in the later days of Evolution, he pretty much told Flair to f*ck off and leave him alone. I don't see Randy getting a manager being realistic.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

I think that really you want a guy down the roster who would actually benefit greatly from having a manager to define their character. I think that the likes of MVP and Randy Orton are doing just fine by themselves. OK neither of them may be the finished article but I think that they have both established themselves and got themsleves over so I don't think that a manager would make too much sense for either of them.

Honky Tonk Man was over and they still gave him Jimmy Hart. Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens could talk all day, were over, and they were still put with Booby Heenan.

Butch Reid (great talker) in WCW, would have got over fine but they still gave him and Ron Simmons Theodore Long as their manager.

Ric Rude was as over as any hell in the WWF in the 1980's. They still put him with Heenan though.

Legion of Doom were over in WWE in the early 1990's but when Vince had the chance to bring Paul Ellering, he did it.

The list is endless. The best use of managers is not necessarily always just to put them with a guy with talent but with no mic ability.

So, why were the people in my above list of examples given managers? Because when you have a talented manager, they can make a good act into a great act. They can make a guy pushing to be a top guy into an immediate legitimate contender in the eyes of the fans by just being associated with the manager.

-Bubbs suggested Regal and Haas citing that Haas could easily be the next Chris Benoit. I don't even wanna talk about him in a contest like this but Charlie Haas will never be a Chris Benoit in the ring, with or without Regal.

Haas is a steady guy to have around. No more, no less. Giving Regal as a manger to Haas would be a waste or Regal.

If they were confident about Harry Smith and wanted to really push him, I'd give him Regal.

- There was a suggestion of Cody and Anderson. You're wasting a potentially great manager on a kid that's still learning. So instead of giving Arn a guy that's just not ready for anything right now, give him someone that Arn could really help.

Plus only a portion of the audience will remember the Arn versus Dusty from the Four Horsemen. And of that portion that remember, none will want to boo Arn. It would feel very forced as there's alot of affection for Arn with old time fans.

Presently though if he should be managing anybody, it should be Flair.

Cactus Col

Fozzy wrote: »

Cactus Col, do you think there'd be any danger of JBL overshadowing Kenny? JBL is a very overbearing character and I think that the fans would just look at JBL as being the star of the two. Think of when JBL had his cabinet. Orlando Jordan and the Bashams didn't get any sort of rub off JBL, even though he was the champ at the time. And look at where they are now! JBL is also a lot larger than Kenny, meaning that a lot of the fans' attention will be drawn more towards JBL. I just couldn't see it working

JBL will almost definetly overshadow Kenny to begin with anyway. Afterall, JBL is a wrestling god! JBL is already a main event performer, and a future hall of famer.

Kenny was in the spirit squad and got beat by ric flair. It would be fair to say that Kenny isn't even a mid carder at the moment. However, as JBL uses his greatest gift, that of his mouth, he will raise Kenny up to new levels.

There is a difference between the Cabinet and this concept. The Cabinet was a stable built around JBL and his attempts to keep hold of WWE title. The members of the cabinet not named JBL were not important, unless interfering in matches for JBL. And despite any real direction Orlando Jordan and the Basham Brothers won gold, specifically because of an association with JBL.

However, in a management role, JBL's job would be to get Kenny over. JBL's character would not invest his time and money into a young wrestler if he did not forsee big returns. Just being associated with JBL would see Kenny rise to through the mid card, and would easily be a contender for the United States championship.

We are not talking about an immediate impact (although there would be one as Kenny rises to the mid card). A lengthy reign as Kenny's manager would build him up into a main event position for years to come.

Charlie

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't see why Lashley would play heel. OK, Jim Cornette could get him over and all, and lashley is just another lesnar/umaga/etc. but why would WWE turn one of their biggest baby-face champions heel?

It wouldn't make much sense. Especially after the McMahon angle recently.





But Kane, Lesnar and Taker were all unique and new. Lashley has been around and is known by fans, and has also been a huge face. Lashley shows compassion and devotion to WWE and pro-wrestling, he loves the fans, he's held the belts... So what would make him turn heel? It wouldn't make sense.

I really have to disagree with you that Lashley is a huge face. And the Belts?? The ECW title is well down on the pecking order, I certainly wouldn't call him a world champ. Like I said, I don't dispute that The McMahon's view Lashley as being a top tier guy, but I would imagine that a lot of fans like myself are far from convinced of him being regarded as so.

However, even if we were to accept that Lashley was this massive babyface, then who better to pull a heel swerve, fans love to hate a guy they once cherished.

But like I said, I don't think Lashley is tat well over as a face, and could be utilised far better as a heel, aligning him with Cornette to achieve this.

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Honky Tonk Man was over and they still gave him Jimmy Hart. Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens could talk all day, were over, and they were still put with Booby Heenan.

Butch Reid (great talker) in WCW, would have got over fine but they still gave him and Ron Simmons Theodore Long as their manager.

Ric Rude was as over as any hell in the WWF in the 1980's. They still put him with Heenan though.

Legion of Doom were over in WWE in the early 1990's but when Vince had the chance to bring Paul Ellering, he did it.

The list is endless. The best use of managers is not necessarily always just to put them with a guy with talent but with no mic ability.

So, why were the people in my above list of examples given managers? Because when you have a talented manager, they can make a good act into a great act. They can make a guy pushing to be a top guy into an immediate legitimate contender in the eyes of the fans by just being associated with the manager.

-Bubbs suggested Regal and Haas citing that Haas could easily be the next Chris Benoit. I don't even wanna talk about him in a contest like this but Charlie Haas will never be a Chris Benoit in the ring, with or without Regal.

Haas is a steady guy to have around. No more, no less. Giving Regal as a manger to Haas would be a waste or Regal.

If they were confident about Harry Smith and wanted to really push him, I'd give him Regal.

- There was a suggestion of Cody and Anderson. You're wasting a potentially great manager on a kid that's still learning. So instead of giving Arn a guy that's just not ready for anything right now, give him someone that Arn could really help.

Plus only a portion of the audience will remember the Arn versus Dusty from the Four Horsemen. And of that portion that remember, none will want to boo Arn. It would feel very forced as there's alot of affection for Arn with old time fans.

Presently though if he should be managing anybody, it should be Flair.

Well my point was not that established guys should never have managers it was that in this case if the question is who would benefit most from a manager then it should be a guy down on the card because he will benefit most. So my contention is that if you are picking the wrestler who needs a manager most it should not be somebody really good that you are looking to make great because they are already stars. Instead you should pick somebody who is well down the card who could be made into a star.

I think you are over estimating the amount of old time fans that watch and attend WWE shows. I think that it most of the old WCW audience are gone. And I don't think that Arn Anderson would have any trouble getting over as a heel manager. Especially if it was initially to take out Dusty Rhodes.

I think Cody Rhodes has great potential and really we haven't seen anything that he can do because he has been given the cookie-cutter character that John Cena and Randy Orton had too when they first came in. By that logic you would never have put Brock Lesnar with Paul Heyman. I know Lesnar and Cody Rhodes are very different but I think the point stands that really the best use of a manager is to get somebody green over. Sure there is room for managers withy more established guys but the most effective use is with green guys.

As for Arn Anderson managing Ric Flair... Why? I think Flair is doing just fine by himself!

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

Well my point was not that established guys should never have managers it was that in this case if the question is who would benefit most from a manager then it should be a guy down on the card because he will benefit most. So my contention is that if you are picking the wrestler who needs a manager most it should not be somebody really good that you are looking to make great because they are already stars. Instead you should pick somebody who is well down the card who could be made into a star.

You've countered my argument by replying twice to it now. I believe that's against the rules?

If it's not, I'd sure love to respond to that and other stuff (Flair/Arn) especially the Lesnar/Cody comparison!

Rjd2

Oh well all the good names have being taken, so IL go leftfield and risk total scorn and suggest Shane Mc Mahon to manage CM Punk. I don’t really care too much about ECW and the sooner Punk is drafted to Raw or Smack down the better, where naturally he should be turned heel. I remember the heel heat Shane used to get and if he could recapture his glory days as a powerful manager on the it would be awesome. CM Punk is born to play the cocky arrogant heel and being with Shane would ensure a well needed push so basically in a nutshell Shane could build him up and with the help of dirty tricks, CM Punks stock would rise and rise. A comparison could be with the Vicki and Edge power relationship, but Shane has much more charisma than Vicki oh and naturally no kissing though!

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote: »

You've countered my argument by replying twice to it now. I believe that's against the rules?

If it's not, I'd sure love to respond to that and other stuff (Flair/Arn) especially the Lesnar/Cody comparison!

LOL are you serious?! I just replied to your points in one post! How did I reply twice? I was just clarifying my position!

Do you seriously care that much about scoring points? Surely you can respond to whatever you like! Maybe I'm not understanding this thread properly but I didn't realise it was that rigid.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

LOL are you serious?! I just replied to your points in one post! How did I reply twice? I was just clarifying my position!

Do you seriously care that much about scoring points? Surely you can respond to whatever you like! Maybe I'm not understanding this thread properly but I didn't realise it was that rigid.

Yeah I am. It's fun but I think everyone should play by the same rules.

Like Double C responded to what I said about his idea. I disagreed with some of the stuff he countered with but I had to keep my mouth shut. Otherwise the thing would end in chaos.

And giving a manger to a guy who can talk and who is a semi-star already is important to my argument. Many have gone down the route in their argument that you "Give the manager to the guy who can't talk"

My point is that you can give a guy (who can talk) a manager to propel him to the main event level (or a level above what he/she is already), making him a bigger than when he was on his own, thus drawing money for a company, which is what it's all about.