Commissioned or Non-Comissioned ranks

ChapOfDRyans

I know this thread has come up before but i didnt want to drag up months old threads.
In your opinions which would you think would be better(positives/negitives)

do the cadets really change for the worst or are they just like that and its brought out to the front with a bit of power

and is there really a lot of paper work and your really just a civil servent in uniform as a officer

Manic Moran

I'm quite happy being an ossifer type, personally.

Does one prefer to give guidance and direction, or does one prefer to actually get stuff done to accomplish the guidance and direction of higher?

NTM

Lockstep

Actually I'm curious as to the difference.

Could someone explain it in simple terms to me?

I tried looking into it before and it made no sense to me:(

NoQuarter

basically if your non comissioned you are the dogs, or the dirt if you will of the army, its really only when you reach say sargent that you will have any kind of respect given to you, anyone care to disagree??

if your joining and you plan on making a career out of it you would be WELL advised to have it hard for 2 years by applying for a cadetship but the having it much better after that!

Manic Moran

king-stew wrote: »

basically if your non comissioned you are the dogs, or the dirt if you will of the army, its really only when you reach say sargent that you will have any kind of respect given to you, anyone care to disagree??

Yes, me for one.

Just because a troop hasn't yet put in the years required to make hard stripes does not mean that he is any less deserving of my respect than a sergeant or a colonel. He does not have the experience to lead or make decisions, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish to respecting the person. Any leader who does not respect his subordinates is probably not a good leader.

Actually I'm curious as to the difference.

Could someone explain it in simple terms to me?

An old test to give to American cadets...

"You and your group of cadets are simulated officers given a task to set up radio communications with higher and to receive further orders. You have in front of you one disassembled OE-254 radio mast, a SINCGARS radio with ancilliaries (power source, handset, cables etc), and a sergeant with three soldiers. You have ten minutes to make contact with higher on frequency 12345. Go."

Invariably the cadets will enthusiastically set about the challenge, trying to figure out how to best set up the radio antenna, do they want to build it first, then add the guide ropes, or do they want to plant the base and build on top of it..how exactly does this SINGCARS get loaded with a freq... then start issuing instructions such as "OK sergeant, you hold this part of the mast, private, go ahead and plug into that component there as the sergeant is holding it.." and so on.

The correct course of action for the lieutenants-to-be is to only figure out just what needs to be done before the task can be completed. For example, the radio mast must be errected. It is not the officer's job to figure out just how this is to be done, and certainly not to do it. The correct answer is to address the sergeant (who probably -does- know how to do it) and say "Sergeant, get this mast built" and then stay out of his way as he then directs the troops under his command.

This is a very basic example. Officers are managers with decision-making training, whilst NCOs are foremen with reams of practical experience. Thus, at the more complicated level, for example, an officer drawing up an op-order will come up with a timeline, he must prioritise just how important the various different tasks are to give guidance. "Before we go, we will have radio checks 20minutes before LD. Get fuel first, then if you have time, get ammunition. All soldiers will carry two water bottles, and night vision, but they can leave behind their spare radio batteries, we'll work off the vehicles for this one"

Once this guidance has been given, the NCOs will then set about setting the plan in motion. They will task out "Trooper Smith, you work the radio. Trooper Jones, drive the vehicle to the fuel point." They will also actually conduct the inspections before LD to ensure that just as the ossifer said, all troops are carrying two water bottles and night vision.

At another level: I just spent last Saturday in a meeting, drawing up my company's training schedule for the 2009 Training Year. (Starts Oct08). We decided, in our officershipness, that, for example, Nov08 will be focused on Area Recon, whilst Feb 09 would focus on detainee operations. We officers will not be conducting the classes: We have subject matter experts to do this, the NCOs. We just tell them what we want them to focus on, they can do the actual job better than we can.

One of the biggest problems Mustangs have (Officers who used to be NCOs) is staying out of NCO business. They no longer need to micromanage. Further, many matters, particularly disciplinary, can be dealt with by NCOs internally. If it gets to the level of comissioned officers getting involved, it's probably going to end up going on the soldiers' permanent record, which is bad for all.

Ultimately, however, the purpose of officers is to become staff. A company is quite capable of running itself without officers, but officers are there to learn and get line experience before graduating to the exhaulted ranks of battalion staff and start ordering those same line companies around. Again, though, this is all guidance saying "I want this company to go and capture that hill." The niggling details as to -how- this is to be done is sorted out by lower.

NTM

miss no stars

King stew, I'd disagree. Not everyone WANTS responsibility. Some people don't like having to take decisions or being accountable. I'd say go with what you want. A lot of people are very happy in the non-commisioned ranks. They enjoy the social aspect to it and being "among the lads". One thing an officer will never get to be is part of the lads.

That said, I myself would go the commisioned route. I can survive quite happily without being part of the lads and I much prefer to give orders and be in charge than be subservient to just about everyone.


Edit: I agree with manic moran in the points he makes too. In the irish DF, at platoon level and above up to batallion level (correct me if its up to brigade leval) there is an NCO of a parrallel rank to an officer. ie, a platoon sergeant and a platoon officer (normally Lt). the officer gives the orders and the sergeant carrys out the orders. A company commander commands the company and the company sergeant runs the company.

williambonney

I know nothing about the army or armed services, but I have one question just out of curiosity. How does say, a (male) sergeant of vast experience, address a (female) newly appointed lieutenant. Please do not tell me that Irish soldiers have to address them as Ma’am.

NoQuarter

Manic Moran wrote: »

Yes, me for one.

Just because a troop hasn't yet put in the years required to make hard stripes does not mean that he is any less deserving of my respect than a sergeant or a colonel. He does not have the experience to lead or make decisions, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish to respecting the person. Any leader who does not respect his subordinates is probably not a good leader.

NTM

i absolutely agree with you however i found that that certainly wasnt the case in the infantry at least, what you said would be an ideal army but i dont think it reflects our own unfortunatly!

King stew, I'd disagree. Not everyone WANTS responsibility. Some people don't like having to take decisions or being accountable. I'd say go with what you want. A lot of people are very happy in the non-commisioned ranks. They enjoy the social aspect to it and being "among the lads". One thing an officer will never get to be is part of the lads.

true not everyone wants responsibility, id say go with what you want too but i assumed the OP and the other people asking questions dont actually know what they want hence their questions. yes an officer will never be part of the lads, (unless they want to be) but from a career perspective i would advise them to take the comissioned path!

NoQuarter

williambonney wrote: »

I know nothing about the army or armed services, but I have one question just out of curiosity. How does say, a (male) sergeant of vast experience, address a (female) newly appointed lieutenant. Please do not tell me that Irish soldiers have to address them as Ma’am.

a male sergeant and non commissioned ranks above him, even the sergeant major will address a male or female 2nd lieutenant fresh out of cadet school as sir/ma'am and speak to them with a lot of respect(although they will be thinkin they are fresh out of college) and to back up my previous point i cant say the same for what the major speaks to a private or a corporal like!!:rolleyes:

Manic Moran

williambonney wrote: »

I know nothing about the army or armed services, but I have one question just out of curiosity. How does say, a (male) sergeant of vast experience, address a (female) newly appointed lieutenant. Please do not tell me that Irish soldiers have to address them as Ma’am.

Why should male/female come into it?

An officer is comissioned by the President to have authority of rank. Proper respect and courtesy to that commission is to be maintained. Everyone knows that the sergeant knows more, but that is not an issue of appointment.

NTM

williambonney

Why should male/female come into it?

It comes into it because even un military types (like myself) know that females are not real soldiers, they are only there for window dressing and political correctness.

Lockstep

Sorry, just for clarification:


A NCO is one who was picked out of the ranks and was originally a normal soldier

A comissioned officer is one who started out with the express idea of becoming an officer and went through a period as a cadet?

Manic Moran

Not necessarily. In the RDF, at least, most officers were previously enlisted soldiers, some were NCOs, before going for a commission. I don't know if the PDF does OCS or some similar manner of commision.

A notable portion of US officers (including my humble self) went through OCS after doing a stint as an enlisted troop.

they are only there for window dressing and political correctness.

Not...feeding...troll....

NTM

Lockstep

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not necessarily. In the RDF, at least, most officers were previously enlisted soldiers, some were NCOs, before going for a commission. I don't know if the PDF does OCS or some similar manner of commision.

A notable portion of US officers (including my humble self) went through OCS after doing a stint as an enlisted troop.



Not...feeding...troll....

NTM

Sorry I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head round this


What exactly is the difference between an NCO and a CO?

arybvtcw0eolkf

kickoutthejams wrote: »

What exactly is the difference between an NCO and a CO?

One thinks he gets paid from the neck up, the other thinks the other gets paid from the neck down. You decide which is which.

Company Sgt

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Sorry I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head round this


What exactly is the difference between an NCO and a CO?

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NCO NON COMMISSIONED OFFICER AND A CO COMMISSIONED OFFICER IS A NCO ENLISTS AS A PRIVATE/AIRMAN AND WORKS HIS B***** OFF AND MOVES UP THE RANKS TO BE CPL,SGT,CQ,CS AND SO ON,WHERAS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER JOINS AS A A CADET AND IS COMMISSIONED IN FROM THE PRESIDENT AS A 2nd LT .THEY ARE THE CLOWNS THAT ARE TELLING A SGT WITH 20YRS EXPERIANCE HOW TO DO HIS JOB WHEN YHE 2lT IS ONLY IN THE ARMY A WET F****** WEEK,HATE THOSE B*******

miss no stars

1. Company Sgt, a CO is not in a wet week and you know things are really bad anyway if the CO has to tell the sgt what to do. Don't be a hothead and don't be an ignoramus. The shouting is offensive to my ears (eyes)

2. Williambonny, I'm female. I'm a faster runner and fitter than many of my male counterparts, I carry my own load and volunteer for ****ty jobs because I accept someone has to do them and I have no right to expect to get out of them on gender grounds. For the same reason I do not expect to have someone carry ANY of my gear for me. My ARP scores are better than some male scores and equally, some males have better scores than I do. If I am ordered to do something I will do it to the best of my ability.
Mods I'm sorry to feed the troll but seriously. Please explain to me why I make an ineffective soldier on the ground? How exactly am I window dressing?

Manic Moran

Company Sgt wrote: »

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NCO NON COMMISSIONED OFFICER AND A CO COMMISSIONED OFFICER IS A NCO ENLISTS AS A PRIVATE/AIRMAN AND WORKS HIS B***** OFF AND MOVES UP THE RANKS TO BE CPL,SGT,CQ,CS AND SO ON,WHERAS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER JOINS AS A A CADET AND IS COMMISSIONED IN FROM THE PRESIDENT AS A 2nd LT .THEY ARE THE CLOWNS THAT ARE TELLING A SGT WITH 20YRS EXPERIANCE HOW TO DO HIS JOB WHEN YHE 2lT IS ONLY IN THE ARMY A WET F****** WEEK,HATE THOSE B*******

With respect (and there's no need to shout), the vast majority of 2LTs I've encountered have come to the field knowing that they know very little and are quite willing to learn. Granted, there are one or two with an attitude, but generally speaking a quick word from the plt SGT to the CS to the commander gets this sorted out. I like to think I worked rather hard to get to where I am, personally, and didn't just waltz into my position.

Sorry I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head round this


What exactly is the difference between an NCO and a CO?

OK. Legally speaking:

An NCO is an enlisted soldier, and as such is enlisted into the Army and subsequently promoted to provide low-level leadership. A commissioned officer by definition is not enlisted into the Army (in my case, I was discharged the day before I commissioned), and provides the legitimate authority as a representative of the State's government, overseeing the enlisted folk and providing direction.

In practical terms, an NCO is a person of practical experience and leadership ability. He is an enforcer of discipline, and has good small-unit-tactical knowledge. Outside of line units, he also is usually a subject matter expert, such as knowing all the various supply forms, or just what it is exactly that makes the vehicle work.

Legal responsibility stops at the officer level. Officers delegate authority to the NCOs, but it's officers who are ultimately responsible to the State for the goings-on of the unit and who must answer to the Government as the Governments' representatives. He is trained to look at the larger picture, as squad and platoon level operations are competently handled by the NCO.

There are usually two 'chains', the NCO chain and the Commissioned chain. The NCO chain handles troop welfare, anything from making sure the troops are fed through identifying shortages or running the casualty collection point. The officers handle the bigger picture to include also dealing with a lot of the paperwork to make sure the NCOs don't have to do it. In the US philosophy, the Platoon Sergeant owns the platoon, the Lieutenant just borrows it from time to time for tactical exercises: In the garrison environment, the officers should try to stay as far from the NCOs as possible, they'll just get in the way as the garrison environment is pretty routine.

If you want to look at it another way, an officer should provide the "what we shall do" and "why we shall do it", whilst NCOs focus on "How we should do it"

Mods I'm sorry to feed the troll but seriously. Please explain to me why I make an ineffective soldier on the ground? How exactly am I window dressing?

The main problem with women in units are the men.

NTM

Company Sgt

Company Sgt wrote: »

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NCO NON COMMISSIONED OFFICER AND A CO COMMISSIONED OFFICER IS A NCO ENLISTS AS A PRIVATE/AIRMAN AND WORKS HIS B***** OFF AND MOVES UP THE RANKS TO BE CPL,SGT,CQ,CS AND SO ON,WHERAS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER JOINS AS A A CADET AND IS COMMISSIONED IN FROM THE PRESIDENT AS A 2nd LT .THEY ARE THE CLOWNS THAT ARE TELLING A SGT WITH 20YRS EXPERIANCE HOW TO DO HIS JOB WHEN YHE 2lT IS ONLY IN THE ARMY A WET F****** WEEK,HATE THOSE B*******

Reel your neck in you or people could accuse you for being a walt! You're a Reservist (I did my stint also) and from that post alone, you sound like you've done two tours of Nam!! You're only about to go through basic this month for the PDF (link here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54753175#post54753175)! Where the hell do you get to rant about a 2nd Lt. who will have done nearly a years training in the Curragh?! Come back and gob off when you have 20 years experience and get rubbed up the wrong way by a bunch of Ruperts!!

You're the clown with no professional experience ranting about better trained individuals then you!

Manic Moran

Ouch. Pwnd.

NTM

minidazzler

Deleted User wrote: »

Where the hell do you get to rant about a 2nd Lt. who will have done nearly a years training in the Curragh?! !

Just wanted to fix this they do about 18 months ( lots of it on the ground according to a buddy of mine in it now)

Anyways Moran answered perfectly.

I dont see a problem with most women in the military but there are a very small few who use their gender to get out of something. But then again lots of Males go on LD too.

the GALL

Deleted User wrote: »

Reel your neck in you or people could accuse you for being a walt! You're a Reservist (I did my stint also) and from that post alone, you sound like you've done two tours of Nam!! You're only about to go through basic this month for the PDF (link here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54753175#post54753175)! Where the hell do you get to rant about a 2nd Lt. who will have done nearly a years training in the Curragh?! Come back and gob off when you have 20 years experience and get rubbed up the wrong way by a bunch of Ruperts!!

You're the clown with no professional experience ranting about better trained individuals then you!

well put

Lockstep

Manic Moran wrote: »

With respect (and there's no need to shout), the vast majority of 2LTs I've encountered have come to the field knowing that they know very little and are quite willing to learn. Granted, there are one or two with an attitude, but generally speaking a quick word from the plt SGT to the CS to the commander gets this sorted out. I like to think I worked rather hard to get to where I am, personally, and didn't just waltz into my position.



OK. Legally speaking:

An NCO is an enlisted soldier, and as such is enlisted into the Army and subsequently promoted to provide low-level leadership. A commissioned officer by definition is not enlisted into the Army (in my case, I was discharged the day before I commissioned), and provides the legitimate authority as a representative of the State's government, overseeing the enlisted folk and providing direction.

In practical terms, an NCO is a person of practical experience and leadership ability. He is an enforcer of discipline, and has good small-unit-tactical knowledge. Outside of line units, he also is usually a subject matter expert, such as knowing all the various supply forms, or just what it is exactly that makes the vehicle work.

Legal responsibility stops at the officer level. Officers delegate authority to the NCOs, but it's officers who are ultimately responsible to the State for the goings-on of the unit and who must answer to the Government as the Governments' representatives. He is trained to look at the larger picture, as squad and platoon level operations are competently handled by the NCO.

There are usually two 'chains', the NCO chain and the Commissioned chain. The NCO chain handles troop welfare, anything from making sure the troops are fed through identifying shortages or running the casualty collection point. The officers handle the bigger picture to include also dealing with a lot of the paperwork to make sure the NCOs don't have to do it. In the US philosophy, the Platoon Sergeant owns the platoon, the Lieutenant just borrows it from time to time for tactical exercises: In the garrison environment, the officers should try to stay as far from the NCOs as possible, they'll just get in the way as the garrison environment is pretty routine.

If you want to look at it another way, an officer should provide the "what we shall do" and "why we shall do it", whilst NCOs focus on "How we should do it"



The main problem with women in units are the men.

NTM

Excellent post.

THank you.

williambonney

I am not a troll, (whatever that is) I just stated that IMO women are not real soldiers, (in the traditional fighting sense) there are no women in the Irish army ranger wing, the royal marine commandos, and they are not even allowed to apply to the French foreign legion. The afore mention units are cutting edge, in your face front liners who will be the very first to be deployed by their various army commanders if a really serious military situation develops. Is it just a coincidence that they are all male?

ChapOfDRyans

just out of curiosity what rank are you moran,did you start in the nc ranks and then later on do a course to move you up into the comissioned ranks,i read about that in the df mag.

the reason i posted this thread in the first place is because i have no idea what to do,but i do know i want a life in the army(at least i think i do)

Witcher

williambonney wrote: »

Why should male/female come into it?

It comes into it because even un military types (like myself) know that females are not real soldiers, they are only there for window dressing and political correctness.

oh jesus dont play that card!




:cool::cool::cool:

Witcher

williambonney wrote: »

I am not a troll, (whatever that is) I just stated that IMO women are not real soldiers, (in the traditional fighting sense) there are no women in the Irish army ranger wing, the royal marine commandos, and they are not even allowed to apply to the French foreign legion. The afore mention units are cutting edge, in your face front liners who will be the very first to be deployed by their various army commanders if a really serious military situation develops. Is it just a coincidence that they are all male?

your male are you in it? :rolleyes:



you spout so much crap about "cutting edge units" and yet you claim to be a civilian with no

knowledge of military matters!



you're just an armchair soldier saying women cant do this and that all the while crying because

you applied to the PDF once and they told you to get lost and a woman got accepted instead

and you blame the whole female race because of it!



go find a bridge to hide under troll






:cool::cool::cool:

Lockstep

williambonney wrote: »

I am not a troll, (whatever that is)

Troll: someone who posts controversial stuff simply to see how much trouble they can cause.

Manic Moran

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

just out of curiosity what rank are you moran,did you start in the nc ranks and then later on do a course to move you up into the comissioned ranks,i read about that in the df mag.

Many moons ago, I started out in life as a Trooper in the FCA. I moved to the US and joined up the Guard as a Spec-4 (which is kindof an overpaid private). From there I went to OCS and came out a 2LT. I am currently approaching the end of my 1LT days, waiting on the results of the CPT's board, I'm due to take over command of a heavy recon troop of 130 men, seven Bradleys and assorted other goodies. (Though this might change to 9 tanks, 9 Bradleys if recent rumours come true)

I can't say that either the enlisted or the comissioned route is 'better' than the other. I had a whale of a time as a Lieutenant, and expect to rather enjoy myself as a CPT, though the level of responsibility is going to shoot up. For all the C/S's comments above, one must remember that a 2LT is really just the smallest fish in a much bigger pond, and the eyes looking at you are much higher ranked and you will be held to a tougher standard from the getgo. Not least, to survive as a Private, you just need to do what you're told. As even a 2LT, you have responsibilities and decisions to make, usually on the basis of little experience. Screw up, your men die. That's quite a bit of pressure, and a hell of a challenge, the sort of thing I enjoy.

However. It cannot be said that going enlisted does not have its moments either. You often can have a lot more downright fun. Officers rarely get to blow things up themselves, it's the privates who shoot the rocket launchers, blow bridges, or bash in doors. With very few exceptions, officers just get to watch. (I'm fortunate: As an armour/cavalry officer, I'm expected to pull the trigger on occasion) If you feel like being Rambo, diving through the undergrowth, firing your rifle and lobbing hand grenades until you're knee-deep in spent casings, you won't get to do much of that as an officer. Especially later in your career, officers eventually move to command a desk while enlisted soldiers can spend their entire careers in a line unit, and as the phrase goes, NCOs are the backbone of the Army.

So.. Do you want to do things, to drive the trucks or APCs, to shoot the machineguns routinely or lead men in an assault, or do you want to command, making the decisions and shaping the course of the fight, at the cost of only rarely having the fun of doing things yourself?

At least, that's just my point of view. I'm sure Mairt or someone will chime in extolling the virtues of the other side of the house!

I just stated that IMO women are not real soldiers, (in the traditional fighting sense) there are no women in the Irish army ranger wing, the royal marine commandos, and they are not even allowed to apply to the French foreign legion. The afore mention units are cutting edge, in your face front liners who will be the very first to be deployed by their various army commanders if a really serious military situation develops. Is it just a coincidence that they are all male

If it's a really serious military problem, the first troops to be deployed will be the Infantry. Special Forces tend to be more for smaller, more surgical issues. As I mentioned, the main problem with women in line units tends to be the men. The Israeli experience was that male 'protective instincts' would kick in, and they would take un-necessary risks to protect (or impress, possibly) the women. The American experience is that the men are too bloody immature to treat the women as soldiers and not as sex objects. The traditional response over capability is to point to Soviet experience in WWII: Females would be anything from tank crews through snipers.

Oh, and just as an aside, you don't need to be infantry to be a soldier. That woman commanding the supply platoon is one as well, and treat 'em nice or you'll be without food or ammunition.

NTM

Company Sgt

miss no stars wrote: »

1. Company Sgt, a CO is not in a wet week and you know things are really bad anyway if the CO has to tell the sgt what to do. Don't be a hothead and don't be an ignoramus. The shouting is offensive to my ears (eyes)

well Miss no stars Im Not Being a hothead and certainly not an ignoramus maybe you are i dont know,well the co does give the orders out he is the boss it was an example i gave as to the co is over a sgt

Company Sgt

Deleted User wrote: »

Reel your neck in you or people could accuse you for being a walt! You're a Reservist (I did my stint also) and from that post alone, you sound like you've done two tours of Nam!! You're only about to go through basic this month for the PDF (link here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54753175#post54753175)! Where the hell do you get to rant about a 2nd Lt. who will have done nearly a years training in the Curragh?! Come back and gob off when you have 20 years experience and get rubbed up the wrong way by a bunch of Ruperts!!

You're the clown with no professional experience ranting about better trained individuals then you!

Am I Not right in saying that an nco works his arse off to move up the ranks,thats my experiance from people whom i know who have served or are serving,i have done 2 tours of the Nam actually You Asshole,A 2lt who knows jack **** and tries to come out in battlefield and tell a nco wat to do with years under his belt,****

newby.204

Company Sgt wrote: »

Am I Not right in saying that an nco works his arse off to move up the ranks,thats my experiance from people whom i know who have served or are serving,i have done 2 tours of the Nam actually You Asshole,A 2lt who knows jack **** and tries to come out in battlefield and tell a nco wat to do with years under his belt,****

Either you sevred in the US military and left to come back/to ireland or your **** talking!! Im not being abusive to you just please elaborate on your service?

Manic Moran

Company Sgt wrote: »

only joking in rdf myself but joining pdf in jan

Company Sgt wrote: »

i have done 2 tours of the Nam actually You Asshole

Irish Defence Forces Website wrote:

The upper age limit for enlistment in the Army /Air Corps is 25 years of age on the date of enlistment.
The upper age limit for enlistment in the Naval Service is under 27 years of age on the date of enlistment.

Does not compute.... (Actually, I can think of one legitimate possibility, but I'd be very surprised)

Either you sevred in the US military

FWIW, other countries sent troops to Vietnam. Aussies, for example.

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf

Company Sgt wrote: »

Am I Not right in saying that an nco works his arse off to move up the ranks,thats my experiance from people whom i know who have served or are serving,i have done 2 tours of the Nam actually You Asshole,A 2lt who knows jack **** and tries to come out in battlefield and tell a nco wat to do with years under his belt,****

Reported post.

Lads don't entertain him.

Report the post and get rid.

Hagar

Company Sgt infracted for abusive post.

It's a good thread, let's keep it that way.

Lean leis an clár

Hagar

Hagar wrote: »

Company Sgt infracted for abusive post.

It's a good thread, let's keep it that way.

Lean leis an clár

Wont dwell lads but Company_sgt seems like boards.ie greatest walt! He ( a supposed Nam vet) was wondering if the infantry was boring http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54745602#post54745602! If he was a Nam vet, he would be a man in his 50s!

Manic Moran

Manic Moran wrote: »

FWIW, other countries sent troops to Vietnam. Aussies, for example.

NTM

Yeah very true! The SASR had one of the highest kill ratios in the war! Here's a good link for more info!

http://www.vietvet.org/aussie1.htm

Hagar

Oh dear, the expression "pwned" springs to mind.

the GALL

Hagar wrote: »

Company Sgt infracted for abusive post.

It's a good thread, let's keep it that way.

Lean leis an clár

HAGER.....you the man

cp251

Manic Moran, what FCA unit did you serve in?

Mick86

williambonney wrote: »

I know nothing about the army or armed services, but I have one question just out of curiosity. How does say, a (male) sergeant of vast experience, address a (female) newly appointed lieutenant. Please do not tell me that Irish soldiers have to address them as Ma’am.

Non-Commissioned Irish soldiers of any gender have to address female commissioned officers as Ma’am and males as Sir.

Mick86

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Sorry I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head round this
What exactly is the difference between an NCO and a CO?

Commissioned Officers are of the rank of 2/Lt up. Non Commissioned (or enlisted) ranks run from recruit to Sgt Major. A cadet is a non commissioned rank given to a trainee officer. Commissioned Officers literally receive commissions from the President. Enlisted personnel join as recruits and become Privates after training. Once a Pte does a Potential NCO's Cse he or she is promoted Corporal and becomes a Non Commissioned Officer (NCO). CO is not the abbreviation for Commissioned Officer. It means Commanding Officer.

Mick86

Company Sgt wrote: »

THEY ARE THE CLOWNS THAT ARE TELLING A SGT WITH 20YRS EXPERIANCE HOW TO DO HIS JOB WHEN YHE 2lT IS ONLY IN THE ARMY A WET F****** WEEK,HATE THOSE B*******

As my little brother once told a Lt. "Sir, If you wanted to be a Sergeant you should have done an NCO's course.":D

purple'n'gold

Mick86 wrote: »

Commissioned Officers are of the rank of 2/Lt up. Non Commissioned (or enlisted) ranks run from recruit to Sgt Major. A cadet is a non commissioned rank given to a trainee officer. Commissioned Officers literally receive commissions from the President. Enlisted personnel join as recruits and become Privates after training. Once a Pte does a Potential NCO's Cse he or she is promoted Corporal and becomes a Non Commissioned Officer (NCO). CO is not the abbreviation for Commissioned Officer. It means Commanding Officer.

You seem to know what you’re talking about. Why do we have a rank of commandant? I have never heard of that rank in any other army. And I have never heard of an irish army officer of the rank of major.

Manic Moran

cp251 wrote: »

Manic Moran, what FCA unit did you serve in?

Back in the day (As I shake my old-man's cane...) it was known as the 11th Cav. It's the 63rd or some other such obscure number now (The lads in Cathal Brugha). The irony is that I now wear the US Army's 11th Cav patch.

Why do we have a rank of commandant? I have never heard of that rank in any other army. And I have never heard of an irish army officer of the rank of major.

The French also have the rank of Commandant. To all intents and purposes, Commandant = Major, and it was more kept out of tradition. (Or a desire to be different).

Long-winded explanation at http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/D/0145/D.0145.195403250044.html, you have to go down near the bottom, about reference 238.

NTM

Company Sgt

Mick86 wrote: »

As my little brother once told a Lt. "Sir, If you wanted to be a Sergeant you should have done an NCO's course.":D

Your Bang On Yeah

Company Sgt

Manic Moran wrote: »

Does not compute.... (Actually, I can think of one legitimate possibility, but I'd be very surprised)



FWIW, other countries sent troops to Vietnam. Aussies, for example.

NTM

Sorry if i infuriated anybody on this thread i apologise ive been told off and warned
as for you manic moran

i wouldnt been joinin the pdf if i have done two tours off the nam ,i was having a laugh cheer up pal take a joke

Manic Moran

And was your stated opinion on Lieutenants also a joke?

If so, you'll probably need a humour re-adjustment in Recruit Camp. If not, you'll need an attitude re-adjustment. The "Commissioned into 2LT position" system works. You may not like it, or understand just why, but if it wasn't winning wars for the last few years, at least one army wouldn't be doing it any more.

NTM

Company Sgt

Manic Moran wrote: »

And was your stated opinion on Lieutenants also a joke?

If so, you'll probably need a humour re-adjustment in Recruit Camp. If not, you'll need an attitude re-adjustment. The "Commissioned into 2LT position" system works. You may not like it, or understand just why, but if it wasn't winning wars for the last few years, at least one army wouldn't be doing it any more.

NTM

so you dont think ncos work hard to get their promotion are you/were you a serving member of the defence forces

purple'n'gold

Long-winded explanation at http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie...403250044.html, you have to go down near the bottom, about reference 238.

Yes, I have read that, it’s interesting. Seems like the rank was kept for old time’s sake, 1916’s sake. As good a reason as any.

Manic Moran

Company Sgt wrote: »

so you dont think ncos work hard to get their promotion are you/were you a serving member of the defence forces

Not at all. I would hope that all NCOs have attained their position as a result of their effort, competence and experience.

Are you suggesting that lieutenants are not qualified to go into the position that they do? (Not least, if it was that easy, why isn't everyone a lieutenant?) Bear in mind the difference in focus which I have explained at length above over what an NCO focuses on and what an officer focuses on.

It is true that on rare occasions a Lieutenant will stick his nose into the Sergeants' territory. Such things are usually corrected, either by the NCO simply addressing the officer directly in a manner similar to Mick86's quote, or indirectly through the C/S to CO chain, at which point the LT returns to his lane and does his job, and all is well with the world again. Most lieutenants I've encountered tend to have enough cop-on to know where his lane stops and the sergeant's lane starts so the issue does not come up.

NTM