Commissioned or Non-Comissioned ranks

neilled

Manic Moran wrote: »

If a four-year degree gets you 100K in civvie street these days, I emigrated too soon.

NTM

I wish it did but the harsh reality is that a four year degree will not see you waltz into a job at 100k a year, never mind achieve that by the time your thirty. There's a few high flying legal eagle siblings of friends of mine who i've no doubt will hit that mark and one or two who "drive" aircraft on long haul flights or those who are officers in the merchant fleet. Again though, these are not "average" graduates though, they're jobs that are the exception with unique conditions of work. Most of us graduateswill probably walk into our respective jobs at in the high twenty to low thirty thousand scale and work our way up from there. Regarding loadza.ie - just look at the graduate jobs being advertised for a more realistic view.

IRLConor

Manic Moran wrote: »

If a four-year degree gets you 100K in civvie street these days, I emigrated too soon.

It's just about do-able if you know what you're doing and you're lucky. Highly unlikely though. Graduate jobs for what I'm doing come in around €30-35k, any experience and clue and you should make €40 pretty quickly.

You can make €100k+ within a few years of graduating. There are plenty of ways of doing this, but the most obvious one I've seen is to sell your soul to an investment bank. Usually a move out of Ireland (London is far enough) is required.

I wouldn't join the PDF for the money, that's for sure. You're hard pressed to break the €50k mark as enlisted and you need to be a general to make >€100k. I've known several 25 year olds making more than a maxed-out Colonel. Surely it's the "life less ordinary" and not the pay that attracts people?

Mick86

segaBOY wrote: »

1. What specific things are worth achieving as an NCO?

What do you want to do? NCO's do all the training from training recruits to instructing on almost all courses. NCO's run everything- offices, stores, transport. The officers are only in charge because the NCOs let them.

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

who pays you when your overseas is it the u.n or the pdf and how much would you make by doing a tour overseas

The DF. I can't remember how much Overseas allowance is at the moment.

miss no stars

I was looking into overseas pay a while ago. I think it averaged as double your pay when you're at home, which isn't bad. A full year's pay for 6 months work.. Not sure if it's taxed either, afaik, you're taxed if you're in the country for 6 months of the year so perhaps someone with some overseas service done would clear that one up.

Mick86

Your Overseas Allowance is tax free but your pay at home is taxed as normal. That's for the normal 6 month missions.

segaBOY

Mick86 wrote: »

What do you want to do? NCO's do all the training from training recruits to instructing on almost all courses. NCO's run everything- offices, stores, transport. The officers are only in charge because the NCOs let them.

Ok so an officer must get permission from an NCO to be in charge?? Sounds like your spouting usual lower rank nonsense, I agree they both need eachother for the DF to run properly but they are not incharge because "NCOs let them" Officers have better training in the fields of tactics and leadership-fair enough young officers may not have the experience but that comes with time

Mick86

segaBOY wrote: »

Ok so an officer must get permission from an NCO to be in charge??

No, but basically if all the NCOs took a day off the show would grind to a halt because officers don't know how to do the donkey work. Try asking a Company Commander to do the Ration Indents for his company for the week and watch him tie himself in knots.

segaBOY wrote: »

Officers have better training in the fields of tactics and leadership-fair enough young officers may not have the experience but that comes with time

You'd think so wouldn't you, but I've met officers who couldn't lead a section attack. I even had the experience once of a Company Commander on an exercise who organised a Company attack by lining everyone up and shouting charge.:D

Company Sgt

miss no stars wrote: »

Company Sgt. you're slightly deluded as to how much graduates earn. Even Medical interns only earn 60k, I say only because they work about twice as much as any normal graduate. Pretty much most other graduates who've done a career type degree (engineering etc) will typically earn 30k. It's not until you get to higher "ranks" of the profession that you can be looking at abour 70 or 80k. Some degrees increase in pay faster, but what i've described is par for the course. Officer pay is EASILY on a par with civilian pay. Wouldn't get many graduate cadets if it wasn't and graduates is what they're trying to attract.

As for educational requirements, you need to pass english, irish and a third language at a minimum of ordinary level (for the purpose of NUI matriculation).
You need a C3 in 3 higher papers and a D3 in any other papers at higher/ordinary level. It adds up to about 195 points if I recall. Very much a standard leaving cert.

The actual figures for cadet pay are as follows (graduates)

Year one 23,452
year two 26,960

(bear in mind that this is trainee pay, the cadet is not being productive and as such can not expect to earn what they'd get that year in civvie land, most graduates will have enough cop on to know this)


Graduates are then commissioned as full Lts.

On appointment E34,486
After 1 year E35,726
After 2 years E37,089
After 3 years E38,334
After 4 years E39,582
After 5 years E40,295
After 6 years E41,331
After 7 years E42,370

Military Service pay of E4,511 also payable to army/air corps 2LTs and LTs

Realistically, they won't stay on Lt Pay for 7 years. Link to full rates of pay http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/Document+ID/ECED65584861BA7680256C7E00421C7E?OpenDocument

yeah i was going a abit over the top with the pay scales there sorry

Company Sgt

segaBOY wrote: »

1. Ok, if that's what you want to be I won't argue
2. I would regard that as an average leaving Cert tbh, 3 honours isn't all that tough
3. 100k, right thank God I'm in college, those b*****ds at loadzajobs.ie must be lying bout my salary when I graduate...didn't know the Irish labour market was that highly paid-don't think it is tbh, we would not be able to function in any way on the international market if it was

And obviously you're not a C/S, saw that in a previous post-lack of experience in the army=don't know what you're talking about/have a chip on your shoulder

I don't claim to have any experience in the PDF-I'm only a bagger, but at least I don't claim I do/know when I'm wrong

How Would I Be A C/S If Im Joining The Pdf Think Again Pal

segaBOY

Company Sgt wrote: »

How Would I Be A C/S If Im Joining The Pdf Think Again Pal

Your name maybe? Listen don't go on a rant about C/Os when you haven't really experienced PDF life, also they go through serious training-a lot harder than Recruit training so try and put yourself in their boots before going on your little rant.

neilled

Mick86 wrote: »

You'd think so wouldn't you, but I've met officers who couldn't lead a section attack. I even had the experience once of a Company Commander on an exercise who organised a Company attack by lining everyone up and shouting charge.:D

Now that sounds positively medieval!

ChapOfDRyans

so you get a years wages for 6 months overseas nice:D

how long do you get off when you arrive home?

newby.204

a month

Cato

IRLConor wrote: »

It's just about do-able if you know what you're doing and you're lucky. Highly unlikely though. Graduate jobs for what I'm doing come in around €30-35k, any experience and clue and you should make €40 pretty quickly.

You can make €100k+ within a few years of graduating. There are plenty of ways of doing this, but the most obvious one I've seen is to sell your soul to an investment bank. Usually a move out of Ireland (London is far enough) is required.

I wouldn't join the PDF for the money, that's for sure. You're hard pressed to break the €50k mark as enlisted and you need to be a general to make >€100k. I've known several 25 year olds making more than a maxed-out Colonel. Surely it's the "life less ordinary" and not the pay that attracts people?

just about, but in fairness what are the chances? its like winning the lotto there is to much competition and the people that reach salaries of that level mostly gain it through personal aquaintances and other such shortcuts

Company Sgt

segaBOY wrote: »

Your name maybe? Listen don't go on a rant about C/Os when you haven't really experienced PDF life, also they go through serious training-a lot harder than Recruit training so try and put yourself in their boots before going on your little rant.

Thats Just My Views Everybody is different in life,sorry if i hurt anyone iv been sanctioned already over it !

IRLConor

Cato wrote: »

just about, but in fairness what are the chances? its like winning the lotto there is to much competition and the people that reach salaries of that level mostly gain it through personal acquaintances and other such shortcuts

When I said "25 year olds making more than a maxed-out Colonel" I was specifically thinking of two schoolmates of mine who went to work for a large investment bank. Neither of them had prior connections there. They're both still nowhere near the top of their career path within that company. That said, I wouldn't take their jobs for the money they're getting.

If you're willing to move out of Ireland and work like a dog and you have a degree you can pretty easily beat PDF salaries. But then, if you join the military it's for the life not just the pay, right?

Manic Moran

I even had the experience once of a Company Commander on an exercise who organised a Company attack by lining everyone up and shouting charge

Did it work?

Often times, the 'wrong' decision is still better than no decision at all...

NTM

ChapOfDRyans

IRLConor wrote: »

If you're willing to move out of Ireland and work like a dog and you have a degree you can pretty easily beat PDF salaries. But then, if you join the military it's for the life not just the pay, right?

well in most cases the recruits do it for the life but u cant live on being happy, would any of ye think the nc ranks have a good wages?

segaBOY

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

well in most cases the recruits do it for the life but u cant live on being happy, would any of ye think the nc ranks have a good wages?

Tbh I think an NCOs wages shud be a bit higher-there really isn't a massive jump from 3* Private to Corporal and that to Sgt,I think it should be more wouldn't regard it great if you have a family to raise tbh

Gunny Hartman

Well Sega boy, my father was a corporal and retired one and for a good while throughout my childhood his was the only wage coming into the house for my family to live on and my brother and I were never cold, hungry or left wanting so it can be done. It wouldn't really matter what the wages are we will always want more being the greedy people we are.

I would deem the wages we get in the DF as O.K.

miss no stars

by international standards the DF pay well.

A british pte can expect to make 20,919.52 euro in their first year. Their american counterpart can expect to make about half that (basic pay, they get more allowances) from what I can decipher from the confusion that is the pay charts. An irish pte will make 21,736.80 euro in their first year if they work 48 weeks of the year... So comparably, Irish soldiers are doing very well.

steyr fan

I've met officers who couldn't lead a section attack. I even had the experience once of a Company Commander on an exercise who organised a Company attack by lining everyone up and shouting charge.:D[/quote]


What pray tell, would an officer be doing leading a section in attack? Is that not the job of a cpl (ie, section comdr)?

Manic Moran

It is the job of a corporal, yes, but any officer should be capable of it.

NTM

Mick86

neilled wrote: »

Now that sounds positively medieval!

Graet War at any rate:D

Manic Moran wrote: »

Did it work?
NTM

Of course it worked. The enemy were only Engineers so we overwhelmed them in 15 seconds flat.:D

steyr fan wrote: »

What pray tell, would an officer be doing leading a section in attack? Is that not the job of a cpl (ie, section comdr)?

What if all his NCOs are dead.

steyr fan

I am too frig*n lazy to read back over all your posts mick, and too be honest, even if I did read back over them, I'm not sure that I'd be any the wiser - so excuse me for asking this:

have you any military experience? If you have, what rank are you?

If you have no military experience, or are a junior rank (recruit, 2*), then I suggest you join the military, and get some experience.

If that is not an option, pm me and I will endeavour to explain it.

If you have experience, or are not such a junior rank, then I suggest you approach your immediate superior and ask him / her how the rank structure works, and who replaces who in the event that the comdr 'is dead'.

the GALL

Company Sgt wrote: »

Thats Just My Views Everybody is different in life,sorry if i hurt anyone iv been sanctioned already over it !

a word to the wise
don't tell anyone your on boards as 'company sgt'
you won't last pissin time when/if you get to the glen

Manic Moran

Mick86 wrote: »

Of course it worked. The enemy were only Engineers so we overwhelmed them in 15 seconds flat.:D

Well, in that case, I'll say he made a conscious decision, realised that the enemy were only Engineers and as such easy to intimidate into doing nothing, and decided that charging would be more successful than a traditional attack, which they would probably be expecting!

(Tongue somewhat in cheek)

NTM

Company Sgt

the GALL wrote: »

a word to the wise
don't tell anyone your on boards as 'company sgt'
you won't last pissin time when/if you get to the glen

cheers thanks,oh i wont say a thing about it

Mick86

steyr fan wrote: »

have you any military experience? If you have, what rank are you?

29 years service (6 RDF, 23 PDF), 4 Tours of duty in the ME and I'm a Senior NCO. What's yours?

steyr fan wrote: »

If you have experience, or are not such a junior rank, then I suggest you approach your immediate superior and ask him / her how the rank structure works, and who replaces who in the event that the comdr 'is dead'.

Real life doesn't always work that way. Your battlefield casualties will be replaced in the re-org not in mid-assault. That being the case a Lt might well have to lead one of his sections in an attack. I'll leave you with the example of Lt-Col H Jones KIA in the Falklands doing a Cpl's job.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, in that case, I'll say he made a conscious decision, realised that the enemy were only Engineers and as such easy to intimidate into doing nothing, and decided that charging would be more successful than a traditional attack, which they would probably be expecting!

(Tongue somewhat in cheek)

NTM

You'd have to know the man MM.:D

Manic Moran

Mick86 wrote: »

I'll leave you with the example of Lt-Col H Jones KIA in the Falklands doing a Cpl's job.

That was a pretty controversial incident, and to this day there is much discussion as to whether or not he should have done that. It wasn't as if he had no corporals left.

NTM