Suicide

slipss

So I remember seeing some american survey in the run up to christmass that suggested that one in nine people have considered suicide at some point in thier lives. So I just figured I'd start up this thread to see if the numbers match up on boards. Ever considered topping yourself?

Karoma

Yes.

I can also state that, statistically, 1 in 9 people who view this thread will consider homicide.

Pighead

Karoma wrote: »

Yes.

I can also state that, statistically, 1 in 9 people who view this thread will consider homicide.

That statistic rises to 6 in 9 people whenever cheeky_gal starts a thread.

Barlow07

slipss wrote: »

So I remember seeing some american survey in the run up to christmass that suggested that one in nine people have considered suicide at some point in thier lives. So I just figured I'd start up this thread to see if the numbers match up on boards. Ever considered topping yourself?

All the f**king time..........

Susannahmia

No way life has it's up's and downs. It might really suck for a period but with time ones circumstances could be completly different. One of the most selfish acts imaginable imo, could never do that to my loved ones.

Karoma

imred wrote: »

No way life has it's up's and downs. It might really suck for a period but with time ones circumstances could be completly different. One of the most selfish acts imaginable imo, could never do that to my loved ones.

Your life has its "up's and downs". It's your opinion that it's a selfish act based on your circumstances. Not everyone has "loved ones" who give a damn. I'm amazed at how so many people who've never been in the same position as others can judge it out of hand as "selfish".
I don't entirely disagree, I just question your right to judge.

Dizzyblonde

Never, and I've had some serious down times and serious health issues.
I honestly believe it's the way we're made though, and if someone tries to commit suicide it's because they just can't see a different way out of their problems. The suicide rate in this country is ridiculous and needs investigating, there's something seriously wrong imo.

Susannahmia

Karoma wrote: »

Your life has its "up's and downs". It's your opinion that it's a selfish act based on your circumstances. Not everyone has "loved ones" who give a damn. I'm amazed at how so many people who've never been in the same position as others can judge it out of hand as "selfish".
I don't entirely disagree, I just question your right to judge.

Yes everyones opinion is formed from their own experience I'll admit. For example I know a man who shot himself in the head in a failed suicide 10 years ago. Now he is happily married and has a great life.

Many do have loved ones. My cousin killed himself last year, his mother still bursts into tears all the time and carries his photo around with her. She is 70 years old and he left her to raise his four year old son. He left that child without a father and effectively an orphan.

EdgarAllenPoo

I've always said that if I'm diagnosed with a terminal illness or I get to an age were I lose control of my bodily functions that I would eat a bullet.

Mainly for selfish reasons as I wouldn't want any of my remaining relatives to have to wipe my ass for me or put me in a home.

The first time I see signs that things are starting to slip then that's that. I suppose it's also because it gives me a choice of when I go rather than popping my clogs in my sleep.

I remember a Dave Allen joke about a twenty year old who said he'd rather shoot himself than live to be 70 and start to lose his mind, he said the only trouble is if you live that long and start to go loopy you know you want to kill someone but you can't remember who it was.

davyjose

GDM wrote: »

I've always said that if I'm diagnosed with a terminal illness or I get to an age were I lose control of my bodily functions that I would eat a bullet.

Easier said than done. Imagine you had a doctors appt tomoro and you knew there was a chance it was gonna be bad news, would you be happy enough to go buy a gun tonight?
I was of the same opinion as you, then I had a think about the reality, and what really terrified me was, well ... it's death either way.

WindSock

I've thought about it alright, but I don't like hurting myself. Pain=ouch=not pleasant.

EdgarAllenPoo

davyjose wrote: »

Easier said than done. Imagine you had a doctors appt tomoro and you knew there was a chance it was gonna be bad news, would you be happy enough to go buy a gun tonight?
I was of the same opinion as you, then I had a think about the reality, and what really terrified me was, well ... it's death either way.

But is it not better to spare yourself the pain of the illness and also spare your family from having to watch you waste away in more and more pain knowing there's nothing they can do?

Quality

Statistically more people die of suicide a year than of road accidents.

ztoical

imred wrote: »

No way life has it's up's and downs. It might really suck for a period but with time ones circumstances could be completly different. One of the most selfish acts imaginable imo, could never do that to my loved ones.

Its not always to do with lifes ups and downs - sometimes you can be fine one minute and really depressed the next but nothing in your life has actually chanaged. It can all just be a result of chemicals. There is a massive difference between feeling blue and being depressed. I know lots of people who tell me they suffer from deperssion but they haven't seen a doctor or any sort of professional about it, they just have bad days and annouce that they are depressed.

I suffer from depression and ten years ago I found it very hard to keep going. It is very hard to explain to people what it was like - you would be smiling, happy, joking and then everything would just flip. Then you get stuck in a downard spin - I over ate as a result of the depression, got fat, go depressed about that, I lost friends due to it and then got more depressed cus I felt like I had no friends. I got help and while I still get depressed I am able to deal with it now.

There seems to be a weird stigma attached to seeking medical help for mental issues in this country.

Susannahmia

ztoical wrote: »

Its not always to do with lifes ups and downs - sometimes you can be fine one minute and really depressed the next but nothing in your life has actually chanaged. It can all just be a result of chemicals. There is a massive difference between feeling blue and being depressed. I know lots of people who tell me they suffer from deperssion but they haven't seen a doctor or any sort of professional about it, they just have bad days and annouce that they are depressed.

I suffer from depression and ten years ago I found it very hard to keep going. It is very hard to explain to people what it was like - you would be smiling, happy, joking and then everything would just flip. Then you get stuck in a downard spin - I over ate as a result of the depression, got fat, go depressed about that, I lost friends due to it and then got more depressed cus I felt like I had no friends. I got help and while I still get depressed I am able to deal with it now.



There seems to be a weird stigma attached to seeking medical help for mental issues in this country.

Thats kinda what I meant as well. You got help and improved your situation. I imagine that people that commit suicide might feel that there is no other option. In most cases with a lot of work there are better alternatives than ending it all. Your right there should be more awareness and less stigma for people suffering from depression.

Stercus Accidit

imred wrote: »

No way life has it's up's and downs. It might really suck for a period but with time ones circumstances could be completly different. One of the most selfish acts imaginable imo, could never do that to my loved ones.

Bull.

Karoma put it well.

Most of the people who do commit suicide dont have the lifestyle, upbringing or circumstances you do, at least at a guess you havnt experienced "downs" bad enough to. - Maybe I'm way off, and you didnt grow up in a stable lower middle class home with parents who didnt fly off the handle or **** off or beat you or something. - Sorry if you did.

You asume ups and downs?

How about hopelessness and sweet fcuk all, thats how it can be.

And selfish? Dont make me laugh, I doubt any family member worth caring about would blame the person that killed themself.

Sure they would feel ****, and it would be awful, but no individual so overwhelmed by depression that they would kill themself would do it to hurt anyone, other than to escape their own torment.

Anyone who does blame them, isnt likely to have been entitled to a say in it anyway if they care that little about the victim.

Validating your claims with stories of others attempts on their lives, cousins friends, tragic as it is does not validate your argument.

Susannahmia

Motosam wrote: »

Bull.

Karoma put it well.

Most of the people who do commit suicide dont have the lifestyle, upbringing or circumstances you do.

You asume ups and downs?

How about hopelessness and sweet **** all.

And selfish? Dont make me laugh, I doubt any family member worth caring about would blame the person that killed themself.

Anyone who does blame them, isnt likely to have been entitled to a say in it.

But that family member will most likely blame themselves, which is worse.

aidan_walsh

Dont make me laugh, I doubt any family member worth caring about would blame the person that killed themself.

Anyone who does blame them, isnt likely to have been entitled to a say in it.

Bull.

Anyone left behind likely doesn't have the same experiences, perspectives or attitudes as the person who took their life and is unlikely to be able to understand the mindset of the person at time or leading up to it. This lack of understanding leads to anger which leads to blame.

ztoical

imred wrote: »

Thats kinda what I meant as well. You got help and improved your situation. I imagine that people that commit suicide might feel that there is no other option. In most cases with a lot of work there are better alternatives than ending it all. Your right there should be more awareness and less stigma for people suffering from depression.

the sad thing is I got help because I was living in New York at the time. I really feel had I been in Ireland I wouldn't be here right now.

Stercus Accidit

The worst tragedy is when someone does kill themselves, and the whole run up to it is usually loads of depression.

You cant say its selfish, at least you cant convince me.

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Bull.

Anyone left behind likely doesn't have the same experiences, perspectives or attitudes as the person who took their life and is unlikely to be able to understand the mindset of the person at time or leading up to it. This lack of understanding leads to anger which leads to blame.

There is a difference between, in the process of mourning and grieving afterwards getting angry and blaming the victim, and the thing I was p1ssed at, saying in a general term its a selfish act, as above in another post.
It was said too disconnectedly and flippantly.

imred wrote: »

But that family member will most likely blame themselves, which is worse.

Its awful, but not worse. The whole thing is awful. The worst is that someone felt so crap that they did this in the first place, the after effects are terrible, but you cant say x y or z person was an awful selfish person for killing themselves, they had an awful situation.

Cheeky_gal

Pighead wrote: »

That statistic rises to 6 in 9 people whenever cheeky_gal starts a thread.

Statistics don't show it you fool.

WindSock

I think it is more selfish to make a miserable person stick around if they really don't want to.

Terry

This thread is probably best suited to LTI, but that's neither here nor there.

I've seriously thought about it on several occasions (it even crossed my mind earlier today, but that was fleeting and only because I've got the flu and was throwing up ).

I tried it twice within the space of two days a little over a year ago.

You know that urban legend about the guy who ties the rope to the tree hanging over a cliff, swallows a lot of pills, etc?
Well, that sort of happened me.

I got help afterwards and am a lot better now.

The stigma really needs to be removed.

Just because you don't have a bandage or a fever, doesn't mean you're not sick.

ztoical

Motosam wrote: »

Bull.

Karoma put it well.

Most of the people who do commit suicide dont have the lifestyle, upbringing or circumstances you do, at least at a guess you havnt experienced "downs" bad enough to. - Maybe I'm way off, and you didnt grow up in a stable lower middle class home with parents who didnt fly off the handle or **** off or beat you or something. - Sorry if you did.

Hold on I had a great middle class upbringing with parents I got on with very well. I did well in school and college and have always had a good social life. I've had my share of boyfirends, got to travel and I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do job wise and I still tired to kill myself. when people talk about ups and downs they always assume its something outside effecting you - like I said earlier alot of the times its all mental and chemical.

My dad passed away a few months ago and I got really depessed about that but not "depressed I want to kill myself". It was "depressed I miss my dad" There are different types of depression and the ones that are caused by tragic or overpowering outside events. while still very hard and painful, don't always result in suicidal feelings. With my dad I had something to focus on and be ****ing depressed about. When dealing with depression or being bi-polar or others mental issues your just ****ing depressed for no reason and you don't know why and its not feeling blue it is being really really black.

Stercus Accidit

ztoical wrote: »

Hold on I had a great middle class upbringing with parents I got on with very well. I did well in school and college and have always had a good social life. I've had my share of boyfirends, got to travel and I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do job wise and I still tired to kill myself. when people talk about ups and downs they always assume its something outside effecting you - like I said earlier alot of the times its all mental and chemical.

My dad passed away a few months ago and I got really depessed about that but not "depressed I want to kill myself". It was "depressed I miss my dad" There are different types of depression and the ones that are caused by tragic or overpowering outside events. while still very hard and painful, don't always result in suicidal feelings. With my dad I had something to focus on and be ****ing depressed about. When dealing with depression or being bi-polar or others mental issues your just ****ing depressed for no reason and you don't know why and its not feeling blue it is being really really black.

I'm not saying everythings peachy with the middle classes either,
I just dont like the blame the victim, wasnt he a selfish fecker attitude,
as in the post that got me wound up.

Everyone has their reasons for depression sadness etc. You can become depressive or bi polar chemically from constantly having a sh1t time and an excess of these chemicals over the years.

At least as far as I can see, people can go from down in general in the past due to circumstance, to up and down like a fcukin yoyo later in life because of these early problems.

Some are genetically more prone also, with depression in the family.

Susannahmia

WindSock wrote: »

I think it is more selfish to make a miserable person stick around if they really don't want to.

But that miserable person surely has better options than to kill themselves. My other original point was that there is rarely ever no hope at all. With help their situation and depression could be turned around. Its just a pity that help or alternatives are not made obvious to some people in need.

On the other hand in my opinion I do not feel that I have the sole right to my life. Other people are also invested in, dependent and effected by my life. Why would I have the right to make others miserable just to end my own suffering.

Stercus Accidit

The idea is you have a lose lose situation anyway, just one situation gets constantly worse, making the other look alot more like an option.

No-one wants to end their life for the sake of it, they've probably tried their damnedest to make it better for themselves but have been ground down.

Like do you have any experience of this suffering of which you speak?

imred wrote: »

Why would I have the right to make others miserable just to end my own suffering.

And what makes you so noble and strong that you could take what others couldn't. Or do you just assume you could.

You mentioned before you thought it was a selfish act,

imred wrote: »

Yes everyones opinion is formed from their own experience I'll admit. For example I know a man who shot himself in the head in a failed suicide 10 years ago. Now he is happily married and has a great life.

Many do have loved ones. My cousin killed himself last year, his mother still bursts into tears all the time and carries his photo around with her. She is 70 years old and he left her to raise his four year old son. He left that child without a father and effectively an orphan.

did you say this to those you mentioned above who had attempted suicide?

What about the poster above, was she selfish?

What about anyone who has attempted it, are you stronger and nobler, more caring than them? Better?

martin84

I used to think people who committed suicide were completely selfish. Well I can tell ya my opinion has changed somewhat.

I think its really good to have a thread like this. bring it out into the open. It might be a bold statement but I think one of the reasons Ireland has such a high rate of suicide is because of our attitudes towards depression and mental illness in general.
If people could talk more about these subjects the rate would be a lot lower.

Martin

Stercus Accidit

martin84 wrote: »

I used to think people who committed suicide were completely selfish. Well I can tell ya my opinion has changed somewhat.

I think its really good to have a thread like this. bring it out into the open. It might be a bold statement but I think one of the reasons Ireland has such a high rate of suicide is because of our attitudes towards depression and mental illness in general.
If people could talk more about these subjects the rate would be a lot lower.

Martin

Thanks martin.

You're right, the aul no catholic funeral for that mortal sinner sh1te was awful.

Straight to hell and all that.

kizzyr

I've never even considered it. There have been times when things have been pretty tough going with some of the stuff that has happened to me but I am very lucky with my family and my boyfriend and they are always very supportive when the going gets tough.
Out of my year from school 4 of the guys have committed suicide (left school in 1996. There have been times when I was of the opinion that suicide was the ultimate selfish gesture but I've grown up since then and have come to realise that to take your life, you must be in such a deep dark place where you feel totally worthless and that you are actually doing people a favour by taking such steps (when the opposite is actually true). I think its dreadfully sad to think that there are so many people who are in such pain and that it goes unnoticed by so many and for those who do seek treatment they are turned away because there aren't adequate services available for those in need of mental health treatment.

ztoical

martin84 wrote: »

I used to think people who committed suicide were completely selfish. Well I can tell ya my opinion has changed somewhat.

I think its really good to have a thread like this. bring it out into the open. It might be a bold statement but I think one of the reasons Ireland has such a high rate of suicide is because of our attitudes towards depression and mental illness in general.
If people could talk more about these subjects the rate would be a lot lower.

Martin

here here. I think everyone should sit and talk to someone at least ever 5 years or so - I keep getting letters from the health department telling me I have to get a cervical cancer check and a breast cancer check and heap of other checks regularly, why not a mental health check up? Whats wrong with sitting down with someone for 30mins ever 5 years or so and going "hmm how am I doing?"

There shouldn't be a stigma attached to mental issues - this attitude that its weak or selfish is silly - "I have had **** things happen to me so you should just grin and bear it" - blah

Terry

ztoical wrote: »

here here. I think everyone should sit and talk to someone at least ever 5 years or so - I keep getting letters from the health department telling me I have to get a cervical cancer check and a breast cancer check and heap of other checks regularly, why not a mental health check up? Whats wrong with sitting down with someone for 30mins ever 5 years or so and going "hmm how am I doing?"

There shouldn't be a stigma attached to mental issues - this attitude that its weak or selfish is silly - "I have had **** things happen to me so you should just grin and bear it" - blah

The stigma attached to mental illness really should not exist.

For me, it doesn't.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055054940

I really couldn't give a crap what people think of me and my mental health.

Dudess

Yep, I was at a party the other night and there was a guy telling all who'd listen about his current residence - St Pat's. I found it most refreshing.

Kazobel

Yes, I've tried it a few times too I was in a very sad place in my life at the time and just didn't care, all I wanted was the constant sadness to end to the person that said it's a selfish act it's anything but selfish, it takes a long time to get to the point where you consider it and all that time you're hiding all these devestating emotions just so you don't worry others around you which in itself becomes part of the problem that leads to the act. Luckly things are better now and it's been a long time

ejmaztec

There are various experienced voluntary bodies who are involved in counselling and suicide prevention. In schools, for example, where a suicide has taken place, the counsellors offer to speak with anyone who might feel the need to talk about what has happened. In some cases, without any counselling, there are copy-cat suicides at the same schools. Unfortunately, there are some principals who don't authorise a visit from these counsellors. One principal pointed to a cert on their office wall saying that they had the necessary counselling qualification, and that no outside assistance was necessary. The principal didn't seem to realise that some students wouldn't wish to discuss anything with them, let alone personal problems.

davyjose

GDM wrote: »

But is it not better to spare yourself the pain of the illness and also spare your family from having to watch you waste away in more and more pain knowing there's nothing they can do?

Yeah but it would still be a muddaf*cker knowing that, either way, it's the end of the road, so why not, y'know, go for it.
Actually I wonder how often it happens, people just end it for reasons such as that - probably more than we think.

Terry

Dudess wrote: »

Yep, I was at a party the other night and there was a guy telling all who'd listen about his current residence - St Pat's. I found it most refreshing.

You know, sometimes a serious thread slips through.

ejmaztec wrote: »

There are various experienced voluntary bodies who are involved in counselling and suicide prevention. In schools, for example, where a suicide has taken place, the counsellors offer to speak with anyone who might feel the need to talk about what has happened. In some cases, without any counselling, there are copy-cat suicides at the same schools. Unfortunately, there are some principals who don't authorise a visit from these counsellors. One principal pointed to a cert on their office wall saying that they had the necessary counselling qualification, and that no outside assistance was necessary. The principal didn't seem to realise that some students wouldn't wish to discuss anything with them, let alone personal problems.

I'd agree with that.

I remember the school nun trying to do councelling sessions with some of us.

I'm fairly certain that I would have been more comfortable talking to someone who I didn't really know, rather than that nosey old bitch. RIP Camilla the nun.

Edit: in fairness, she was just trying to help. The 14 year old me didn't see it that way though.

ztoical

ejmaztec wrote: »

There are various experienced voluntary bodies who are involved in counselling and suicide prevention. In schools, for example, where a suicide has taken place, the counsellors offer to speak with anyone who might feel the need to talk about what has happened. In some cases, without any counselling, there are copy-cat suicides at the same schools. Unfortunately, there are some principals who don't authorise a visit from these counsellors. One principal pointed to a cert on their office wall saying that they had the necessary counselling qualification, and that no outside assistance was necessary. The principal didn't seem to realise that some students wouldn't wish to discuss anything with them, let alone personal problems.

Its a shame thou that they only came to offer counselling after someone had already committed suicide. I don't think people should have to wait until they are feeling that low to seek help - seeing a counsellor shouldn't be any different to getting your eyes checked or your teeth

Dudess

Terry wrote: »

You know, sometimes a serious thread slips through.

Can't pm you. I don't understand... bit slow today (due to returning to work after many, many booze-ups )

ejmaztec

ztoical wrote: »

Its a shame thou that they only came to offer counselling after someone had already committed suicide. I don't think people should have to wait until they are feeling that low to seek help - seeing a counsellor shouldn't be any different to getting your eyes checked or your teeth

The counsellors are always available - the problem is getting someone to listen to them so that they can get involved in listening and talking to the students. I think that some principals feel insulted, or that someone is trying to encroach on their territory, or they think the whole idea pointless in their "It's never going to here!" frame of mind.

It's about time some of them put their pride aside and woke up to the reality of what might happen. Nobody knows what is ticking away in anybody's head.

jdivision

imred wrote: »

But that miserable person surely has better options than to kill themselves. My other original point was that there is rarely ever no hope at all. With help their situation and depression could be turned around. Its just a pity that help or alternatives are not made obvious to some people in need.

On the other hand in my opinion I do not feel that I have the sole right to my life. Other people are also invested in, dependent and effected by my life. Why would I have the right to make others miserable just to end my own suffering.

What you don't seem to realise is that people go into such a black space that they feel that everybody else would be better off without them. Therefore the act is not selfish. I go f--king spare in general when I hear people come over all "such a selfish act" so please don't think I'm picking on you specifically but basically if you haven't been there don't judge anybody else. It's one of the reasons why we have such a high suicide rate. People think it's just melancholy. "ah come on snap out of it," is the standard reply. Oh wait, Dorothy clicked her shoes and I'm fine again. Actually no, it's not that simple.

WhiteWashMan

Ah is getting a bit too emo these days.

Next we will get the whole 'I cut myself to make sure I can still feel' crap.
Quick, stick on some NIN, and grab the scalpal and hike up those black skirts...

WhiteWashMan

Oh, and no. I have never thought about suicide.

Even looking at threads like this only makes me want to pluck my eyes from head and stab a bic biro through the empty sockets.
You know, just so I know Im still alive like.

Lux23

I have been in this situation and I did attempt suicide, the last attempt was over two years ago. And I can't even begin to explain what it feels like as I really can't comprehend what I felt at the time. It is completely alien for me to think that i once wanted to end my life, Ive got through so much in my life that I always feel now that I can survive anything. So looking back I think I was selfish but I can't say whats its like for other people. Not everyone's depression is the same and not everyone can cope as well as I have in my life.

Terry

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Ah is getting a bit too emo these days.

Next we will get the whole 'I cut myself to make sure I can still feel' crap.
Quick, stick on some NIN, and grab the scalpal and hike up those black skirts...

That's what happens when you put women in charge.

arybvtcw0eolkf

When I separated from my wife I came so close that it still frightens me.

Luckily enough help was at the end of a phone call.

Maple

i get why someone would think that its selfish but thats mostly frustration and anger at not being allowed to have helped the person. mostly i think that its horrifically sad that someone would feel so horrible and so alone in their sadness that they would think that suicide is the ohly way out for them. that their world is so dark that they just want to escape from it. its easy to judge and call them selfish but until you experience that mental blackness and despair then its unfair to do so.

eirebhoy

Jesus I'm absolutely shocked at that poll. Never for a second considered it. I know loads of people that have killed themselves though. My friends father killed himself a few days ago.

WhiteWashMan

maple wrote: »

its easy to judge and call them selfish but until you experience that mental blackness and despair then its unfair to do so.

BLACK!

Black like the endless space that leads to the chasm of the clams!

Where are we sleeping tonight, Fathers grave ?

Oh yes, what shall we do with Father, Mother?...fold him like a ticket, and poke him in a hole!

With the Black! Black! Black!! Black!! Like the shadows that lie in wait for us!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

maple wrote: »

i get why someone would think that its selfish but thats mostly frustration and anger at not being allowed to have helped the person. mostly i think that its horrifically sad that someone would feel so horrible and so alone in their sadness that they would think that suicide is the ohly way out for them. that their world is so dark that they just want to escape from it. its easy to judge and call them selfish but until you experience that mental blackness and despair then its unfair to do so.

You sound like you've looked into the abyss yourself.

Your description of it is very accurate.

Your in a very dark place in your mind, its horrible and easy to slip-slide away.

Yes. In the past.

But I'm glad I didn't go through with it, as my life did get better afterwards. That and I have a huge fear of death.