Eircom Phone alarm screwing me for broadband

ShoulderChip

Hi we have an eircom phone alarm,
as far as I am aware this means that can not change our phone provider from broadband to another package eg smart/magnet perlico.
Also we have Sky television so can not get broadband with Ntl.

Does anyone know of a solution for getting broadband in my house in waterford without paying 24.99 for the standard eirocm package.

Ideally I would like you to tell me that there is some way of changing to smart etc and still being able to use the eircom phone line.

Or failing that that some company offers cheap broadband via wireless/satelite etc. or cheap brodband via the eircom phone line.

Sorry for being longwinded, could do with any info.

Sponge Bob

Digiweb Metro , Sky interferes with bb as much as the alarms do . That line is fecked to my mind.

watty

The eircom phone watch may have the SMS service centre number hardcoded and use landline SMS.

This means you can ONLY use eircom. Not Metro or Smart or NTL. Some Alarm systems use modems, they will work on Metro, NTL or Smart.

Comreg needs to address this anti-competitive issue, if it is how eircom's phone watch works, as a different provider has a different SMS center number. (on Mobile phones it is different for each provider too).

Rosser

have you considered getting Phone Watch to install a cellular unit and then you could get rid of Sky and use NTL for tv / broadband and phone

watty

NTL not as good as Satellite for TV. Anyway you can have Sky without phone unless multiroom, even then you can pay sub on one or no boxes and use the 45+ decent free channels. You own the Sky box. With NTL there are no free channels and NTL owns the box.

See ICDG in my sig

jor el

Have you considered getting rid of Phonewatch and just switching to Smart? Is that an option at all? Monitored alarms are (IMO) worthless anyway. Smart will give the best value for money and highest speeds.

watty wrote:

NTL not as good as Satellite for TV.

Also not as good as Smart for Broadband. Don't know what their VOIP phone service is like (if they have one themselves).

JohnDigital

Just because you have an eircom phonewatch alarm does not mean that you have to have your line and services with eircom, you can switch to any other company for your phone/broadband services and leave the alarm monitored by phonewatch

ShoulderChip

JohnDigital wrote: »

Just because you have an eircom phonewatch alarm does not mean that you have to have your line and services with eircom, you can switch to any other company for your phone/broadband services and leave the alarm monitored by phonewatch

If this is true then I'm laughing,
thats all I wanted to know!

Bulmers

I have eircom phonewatch and BT broadband and talk package on the phone line. They tried to discourage me from moving to BT saying it wouldn't work etc, i just went ahead and done it and works fine but my DSL and phone line are split out on the pairs so maybe that's why but either way, you can do it and works fine.

joeali101

i got eircom phonewatch in 2 years ago,even though i have BT broadband. The Technician had to install an analogue loopthrough for the alarm system but there was no problems apart from that.

watty

JohnDigital wrote: »

Just because you have an eircom phonewatch alarm does not mean that you have to have your line and services with eircom, you can switch to any other company for your phone/broadband services and leave the alarm monitored by phonewatch

Not LLU services. Only CPS/Bitstream where the line still connects to eircom equipment in the exchange, otherwise the SMS won't work.

JohnDigital

From the FAQ on their website:

If my phone service is with another company can I still have PhoneWatch?
Yes, we can connect you to our 24 hour monitoring through any landline or cellular network. Find out how to connect to alarm monitoring.

Maybe the OP has had clarification from phonewatch themselves?

Dinkie

I rang talktalk about this (have ordered their broadband) and they have told me I can use their broadband with phonewatch.

You could try them? They are cheaper then eircom

watty

talktalk is CPS/Bitstream, i.e. simply reselling eircom, so of course it works.

Solair

The problem is a little more complex.

Smart Telecom uses VoIP to transport their voice calls over their network. When you switch over they give you a dial tone and a phone line in a very similar way to eircom i.e. you can just plug straight into a phone socket.

The difference is that modems are optimised to deal with digital circuit switches i.e. traditional PSTN lines. Smart uses VoIP gear in their exchange, which breaks the signal up into packets and uses different sampling rates to a normal phone line. This makes no difference to voice calls but it can be difficult for a high speed modem to communicate over it.

From what I gather, eircom phone watch uses a modem much slower than a fax machine. It should work fine over a Smart Telecom line.

If I were you, I'd switch over and if the phone watch alarm has difficulty (which I suspect is unlikely), just ask phone watch to install GSM monitoring. They'll put a little box into your attic that contains a GSM phone card and your monitoring's done over vodafone.

There is no eircom SMS service involved in any of this btw.

Sky Digital boxes use a 56kbps modem, same as in a computer, this will not connect over a VoIP line at all as it expects to be connected to a normal digital PSTN line. This is starting to be a major issue for Sky and they['ll have to come up with a reasonable work around.

If you contact them and explain that you're using a new phone company and their modem is incomptable with the line they'll have to help out.

watty

Some VOIP services can support Sky Modems, typically only some provided by the ISP. I've tested fax, dailup ISP and Skybox on VOIP. It has to automatically switch to G.711 and have low packet loss, low jitter and thus typically VOIP QOS management too. Very few VOIP systems have end to end QOS needed for Modems to work.

No non-eircom system (i.e. not CPS/bitstream) will support an eircom smsc number. Some alarms do use a hard coded SMS number. SMS on phone lines can use DMTF or 1200bps FSK. The FSK is I think what ericom uses. So essentially the Alarm may be using a slow modem, but only to eircom SMSC. If you arn't on an eircom voice circuit the connection will fail (yes I've tried), logically as the SMSC can't currently charge a phone user on a physicaly different network (not CPS account).

So what ever method of alarm you have, if you uses CPS or a CPS/BB bundle but it is still the eircom line, not wireless, fibre or LLU, then the alarm will work. Or can work if you contact eircom.

Solair

The older eircom phonewatch box doesn't use SMS, it's quite heavily proprietary technology from ITI/GE Security and is based around US standards.

The alarm box contains a modem that transmits using Bell 103 or 212A standards! Absolutely ancient modem standard, but it can survive any line quality. It barely gets up to 300bps !

These modems are so slow that they can dial up over a GSM connection on a mobile phone without any issue, so I really can't see Smart's VoIP lines being any trouble to them.

Your alarm box has a number programmed into it, which is just either an 01 number or a 1800 number. It's nothing to do with the eircom SMS service and is definitely accessible from Smart telecom or any mobile network.

If you check through your phone bill, you'll spot the number dialled.

It makes a relatively standard dial up connection to the monitoring centre and sends a very short message just identifying the alarm's ID number and a code for which sensors have been tripped etc.

It doesn't need a fast modem to do this as the amount of data is tiny and the designers would have opted for a slow modem that can dial up in almost any line conditions. The speed of transmission is not of consequence.

You'll need to let eircom Phonewatch know that you have changed phone number though!

If it doesn't work, just ask Phonewatch to install GSM monitoring. This is just a box they place into your attic which has a PSTN interface, i.e. supplies the alarm with a fake phone line. The alarm just dials up as normal but the call goes over a GSM mobile connection.

PhoneWatch is quite a serious seperate division from eircom the phone co. They will be more concerned about getting monitoring fees out of you, so they'll work to ensure you're connected if you ask them!

hitbit

I have had UTV as my Phone and Broadband providers for many years now. I also have Sky and a PhoneWatch monitored alarm system. All work fine so there is no need to have Eircom as your Phone provider. PhoneWatch is an independent company and will sell their service to anyone.
NTL sucks, signal jams.
Monitored Alarms are excellent, I know this for a fact.

hitbit

Solair

If you contact Phonewatch and tell them that you want to install DSL they will come out and make whatever modifications are necessary to filter the signal correctly. It involves putting in an eircom master socket with a splitter in it. This provides the alarm with a secure but DSL filtered connection.

After that it really doesn't matter what ISP or phone company you're using provided that you don't switch the alarm to a new phone number without telling phonewatch as they use caller ID too.

Freddie59

Solair wrote: »

The problem is a little more complex.

Smart Telecom uses VoIP to transport their voice calls over their network. When you switch over they give you a dial tone and a phone line in a very similar way to eircom i.e. you can just plug straight into a phone socket.

The difference is that modems are optimised to deal with digital circuit switches i.e. traditional PSTN lines. Smart uses VoIP gear in their exchange, which breaks the signal up into packets and uses different sampling rates to a normal phone line. This makes no difference to voice calls but it can be difficult for a high speed modem to communicate over it.

From what I gather, eircom phone watch uses a modem much slower than a fax machine. It should work fine over a Smart Telecom line.

If I were you, I'd switch over and if the phone watch alarm has difficulty (which I suspect is unlikely), just ask phone watch to install GSM monitoring. They'll put a little box into your attic that contains a GSM phone card and your monitoring's done over vodafone.

There is no eircom SMS service involved in any of this btw.

Sky Digital boxes use a 56kbps modem, same as in a computer, this will not connect over a VoIP line at all as it expects to be connected to a normal digital PSTN line. This is starting to be a major issue for Sky and they['ll have to come up with a reasonable work around.

If you contact them and explain that you're using a new phone company and their modem is incomptable with the line they'll have to help out.

Exactly. I'm in the same boat with an alarm (NTL BB/Blueface VoIP phone). It can't use the VoIP line for monitoring. There is only one solution to this in the world at the minute and it's tied to an American company. But it's only a matter of time I'd say.

https://nextalarm.com/abn.jsp