XBox 360 "Ultimate" in Autumn 2008

Biro

If they really want to win the war, they really need to price this at €450 and reduce the Elite to some sub-€400 price, maybe €380.
Even the Nintendo DS has wireless, so they can't use that as an excuse to jack up the price. The newer cpu will benefit them as much as us from the point of view of not having to pay to post and repair everyone's dying 360's, the HD-DVD drive will also play into their court, as they'll want it to win the blu-ray war, I reckon they'll be shipping software for PC's in HD-DVD format soon, and the bigger HD is hardly a big deal, you can get a 320GB 2.5" hard disk now for about €80.
I was holding out till mid year to get an Elite, as I intend to use the hard disk space for downloading HD films, but I'll wait and see what this is priced at. But to be honest, anything more than €450 would be a rip off. I have a feeling they'll aim it at €500 which is a bit dear, but €600 would be rediculous for it.
I'd far sooner the 360 over the PS3, but you have to remember that with the PS3 you get a blu-ray player, HD port, very quiet cpu (and a massively poerful cpu), wireless all for €400, so really all this ultimate would be offering over that is the big HD.

silvine

Biro wrote: »

, the HD-DVD drive will also play into their court, as they'll want it to win the blu-ray war,

Microsoft have said several times that they see downloading movies as the way forward and not HD DVD or Blu-ray.

armour87

Gorilla wrote: »

If it is true then Xbox 360 Elite owners won't be to happy...

Just got a premium for xmas and Im not happy!

Can anyone steer me in the right direction to get my gamercard on my sig?

Ta

miju

just to www.mygamercard.net enter your gamertag ,choose design and click generate and follow the instructions it's relatively straight forward

savemejebus

MS may reconsider the HD-DVD aspect of this 'Ultimate' 360 if this press release is accurate http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080104005575&newsLang=en. It seems that warner bros. have gone blu-ray exclusive, which leaves the future of HD-DVD looking a little shaky.

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

Biro wrote: »

I'd far sooner the 360 over the PS3, but you have to remember that with the PS3 you get a blu-ray player, HD port, very quiet cpu (and a massively poerful cpu), wireless all for €400, so really all this ultimate would be offering over that is the big HD.

Just a couple of points.

Whats this HD port?

I wasn't aware CPU's made noise:p, but the fans on my PS3 are on a par with my 360, though the PS3 is quieter starting up, which seems to make a lot of people think it is quiet, as generally there is sound coming from the speakers before the fans hit full tilt.

This powerful CPU, or rather 5 CPU's, it feckin' brill at running Folding@Home, pity its not so great a running games, and the entire system is pretty lacking in RAM and graphics memory.

Guy:Incognito

Nothing specifically to do with the new release (only got an Elite, HD-DVD drive and wireless adapter at Christmas) but on the HD-DVD front, I'm fairly anti moving to downloads.

I like to have a physical disc. It makes you feels you've got something for your money. Downloading a file just makes me think " meh, I could have decided to go the dodgy route and downloaded it for free somewhere" whereas short of going into a shop and stealing a DVD you cant really get the same feeling you do from an actual disc.

I'd say theres a good few people like me that would think along a similar line.

Biro

silvine wrote: »

Microsoft have said several times that they see downloading movies as the way forward and not HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Yes, but Microsoft aren't a games and movies company, they're a software company. They'll also want HD-DVD to take over from DVD from the point of view of replacing that sliding drawer on your PC/Laptop, so that people will be using them in the future.
I think downloading movies is the way forward, but there'll be cheap media needed for the next few years, and that has nothing to do with movies.

Biro

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote: »

Just a couple of points.

Whats this HD port?

I wasn't aware CPU's made noise:p, but the fans on my PS3 are on a par with my 360, though the PS3 is quieter starting up, which seems to make a lot of people think it is quiet, as generally there is sound coming from the speakers before the fans hit full tilt.

This powerful CPU, or rather 5 CPU's, it feckin' brill at running Folding@Home, pity its not so great a running games, and the entire system is pretty lacking in RAM and graphics memory.

There's no need to go nit picking. "this HD Port " is that little hole in the back of your Elite, or the newer Premiums that allows people to plug in a HDMI cable into. Do you really need me to call it the exact name before you understand what I'm saying?
Also the CPU's don't make noise, they make lots and lots of heat, which needs to be dispersed, therefore they need fans... some fans are loud. The newer 65nm chips have better cooling and quieter fans... Are you happy with that? Or do you want me to go further?
You're wrong with your 5 CPU's, the multicore CPU has 8 synergistic cores and one main core. It can allow up to 100 gigabyte/s memory transfer rates. At that rate, the small 256mb of main memory should be plenty if the software it's running allows for this configuration. Also the 256mb of graphics memory is enough too for now.
And saying that the CPU is not so great at running games is a bit silly, if the games are designed from the ground up to run on this particular chip and take advantage at how it operates with it's multi cores and high RAM transfer rates, then there's no reason why it should run such a game excellently well.

Ciaran500

Biro wrote: »

You're wrong with your 5 CPU's, the multicore CPU has 8 synergistic cores and one main core.

It has 6 "synergistic cores" (1 disabled at the factory and 1 dedicated to running the OS and security) and one PPC.

Biro wrote: »

It can allow up to 100 gigabyte/s memory transfer rates. At that rate, the small 256mb of main memory should be plenty if the software it's running allows for this configuration. Also the 256mb of graphics memory is enough too for now.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about.

savemejebus wrote: »

MS may reconsider the HD-DVD aspect of this 'Ultimate' 360 if this press release is accurate http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080104005575&newsLang=en. It seems that warner bros. have gone blu-ray exclusive, which leaves the future of HD-DVD looking a little shaky.

Its not meant to be MS project, the rumour is that Toshiba is licensing the 360 hardware to build a HD-DVD player with a 360 built in.

mickoneill30

I know it's only a rumour and a bit daft to be commenting on it but the advantages that are rumoured are

1080p - Fantastic. Makes little to no difference to anybody. It only makes a difference on the spec sheet so the PS3 Vs 360 Fanboys have something to argue about.

Built in Wi-Fi - Nice addition but I think it's nice to still have the option of buying the premium without it. Not everybody has or needs a Wi-Fi adapter. At least the buyer will have the option of paying for it or not.

Cooler & Quiter - Now I don't make Xboxes but I'd presume if they updated the motherboard and CPU they'd update it in all Xboxes (like they're doing with the current HDMI port). They're hardly going to roll out 2 different boards for two different models. More likely the new 360 will get the new boards as standard and the old boards in the older models will be phased out.

Built in HD-DVD - Ho hum. At least if you want to use it to watch HD-DVD you can pay more for the HD version. PS3 should have done this from the start and if they did they would have been in a much better position today rather than try and convince users that they needed to put in this bigger format player. That turned out great for all the <9Gb games that are ported from the 360. Anybody I know that has a 360 doesn't give two hoots about the HD war and personally I'm of the opinion that neither format will win. Both will limp along for another 5->10 or so years with standard DVDs being the majority of sales. Then there'll be a new format or download will be king. Most of my friends are downloading SD content or still using old fashioned DVDs and are quite happy.

Bigger HDD drive - Another "who cares". I use my 360 for games. In a year and a half I've managed to fill a whopping 9Gb on the HDD. It is good though to have the option for people who will be downloading movies from Xbox Live. But you'd have to be downloading pretty quickly to fill the HDD before your rentals expired.

High Def Audio Output - What percentage of users will that be a benefit for?


At least MS is going the right direction with their Xbox changes. They announce upgrades to the box every so often to give us more (although maybe too many) options. Being a console though at least we can be sure that a game bought for the latest and greatest version will run exactly the same as a game bought for the lowest model (with a HDD, I'm ignoring the Arcade here.)

Compare that with another company that keeps on removing bits or downgrading bits because they desperately need to shave a euro here and there to make it more attractive.

Ciaran500

mickoneill30 wrote: »

1080p - Fantastic. Makes little to no difference to anybody. It only makes a difference on the spec sheet so the PS3 Vs 360 Fanboys have something to argue about.

You can already get 1080p from all versions of the 360

-annex-

Update from Gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26140722&part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6184321

To quote the Microsoft spokesperson from the article:
"We have reiterated multiple times since launching the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player that we have no plans to integrate an HD-DVD player in to the Xbox 360"

mickoneill30

Ciaran500 wrote: »

You can already get 1080p from all versions of the 360

Ah OK. I was just using the info posted in the OP.

Ciaran500

-annex- wrote: »

Update from Gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26140722&part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6184321

To quote the Microsoft spokesperson from the article:
"We have reiterated multiple times since launching the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player that we have no plans to integrate an HD-DVD player in to the Xbox 360"

Again it wouldn't be MS's plan, it would be Toshiba's plan so this doesn't mean anything. We'll find out in a few days.

EDIT: It seems there is two different rumours, that Toshiba is licensing the 360 tech and that MS were developing their own internal HD-DVD drive.

mickoneill30

-annex- wrote: »

Update from Gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26140722&part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6184321

To quote the Microsoft spokesperson from the article:
"We have reiterated multiple times since launching the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player that we have no plans to integrate an HD-DVD player in to the Xbox 360"

I agree it's just a rumour but company spokespersons tow the line. They're hardly going to come out and say it's true. The Elite was rumoured about 4 months before it was announced by MS.

Here's a link of the Sony President denying a PS3 price drop a couple of days before it was official.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32787/98/
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/07/08/new-ps3-new-price-drop-more-news-coming/

I'm not saying the rumour it true, I'm just saying the companies will only tell you what they want you to hear. That's their right and I'd do the same.

Zonda999

Despite that quote from microsoft, i could still see it happening in the future. Just remember that the 360 has a dvd drive so game developers have to squeeze their games on to the disc.A HD disk is going to be needed at some point for games if not for movies. The ps3 has no such problem, blu ray discs can hold something like 25gb single layer.Eventually, this ultimate will have to come or else a 360 successor.But microsoft have already said that they can see the 360 lasting at least as their secondary console until 2015

unklerosco

If they bang in a |HD drive for the purpose of movies and games that means every 360 owner that doesnt have a HD drive in their xbox can't play these "new" HD drive games... That aint gonna happen....

Mickoneill got it spot on... Its all minor crap. The biggest change would be a new mobo/cpu/gpu n cooling.

Adding wifi, bigger hd etc.... Pointless. I have always used wired networking(apart from my laptop). Had a wireless adaptor for my 360 but sold it as it wasn't as stable as my wired connection. Bigger HD will just be sold as a add on anyway and with the way microsoft price the hard drives I doubt anyone would pay for it, u'd prob buy a 360 arcade for the price they'd charge for a 320gb HD...

And all this HD drive stuff, after Toshiba pulling HD-DVD from CES me thinks HD is on its way out... Blue ray have 70% of the labels on its side, wont be long before paramount n universal start banging out movies for blue ray which will leave HD with nothing.

Then there's the fact that both formats will never mount to anything.. I honestly believe that downloading is the way to go... Sure look at the music industry, everyone downloads music now over buying a hard copy. Fair enough, an album is allot smaller than a HD movie but BB speeds are getting faster(well everywhere except here!!)

Even at that, i'd pay for a HD movie download(buy not rent) as even with our crap speeds its still quicker than ordering online... Slection of HD movies in Irish stores is crap... BR aint much better, U gotta go online n wait a week to get ur movie. If you could download it you could go online n get it overnight...

Basq

Sounds nice...

But don't know if i'd bother trading in my premium actually.

I'm getting 1080i from my XBOX (over component, no HDMI), and have it outputting over 5.1 surround sound system, have the HD VGA cable for upscaling and also has the wireless adapter.

No real huge advantage for me to be honest!

savemejebus

unklerosco wrote: »

Sure look at the music industry, everyone downloads music now over buying a hard copy. Fair enough, an album is allot smaller than a HD movie but BB speeds are getting faster(well everywhere except here!!)

I don't think that it's fair to compare video downloads with music downloads. The main problem with digital downloads (ignoring DRM etc) is the file size needed for good quality. Even with great future download speeds and high caps it isn't really feasable to download a 30gb movie everytime you want to watch something. The live marketplace currently gets around this by using lossy methods to reduce file size, same as mp3. The problem with this is, that unlike MP3 the resulting loss of quality will be much more apparent as it is visual. I think that especially with 1080p technology becoming the norm (display and video equipmentwise as opposed to broadcast wise), and dropping like stones in price, this will become even more apparent.

mickoneill30

savemejebus wrote: »

Even with great future download speeds and high caps it isn't really feasable to download a 30gb movie everytime you want to watch something.

That isn't feasable. You're correct there. But HD movies aren't 30gb. The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs might be huge but the movies can be compressed. Have a look at the size of the HD Xbox Live movies. None of them come near that size.

6 years ago it took me 30 mins to download an MP3. Now I can do an SD movie in the same time. I'm presuming the speeds will keep increasing similarly, no matter how crap our infrastructure is.

savemejebus

mickoneill30 wrote: »

That isn't feasable. You're correct there. But HD movies aren't 30gb. The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs might be huge but the movies can be compressed. Have a look at the size of the HD Xbox Live movies. None of them come near that size.

I know that, and that's why i also wrote

The live marketplace currently gets around this by using lossy methods to reduce file size, same as mp3. The problem with this is, that unlike MP3 the resulting loss of quality will be much more apparent as it is visual

silvine

More than a few people have been giving out that the Xbox movies don't come with proper HD sound. Xbox Live movies are not good enough quality for a lot of people for reasons ranging from lengthy waiting times to poor quality sound. However down the road, as download speeds increase and the kinks are ironed of the service, we could see these issues sorted. In the meantime there's the possibility of an XBox Ultimate.

Considering the people who will buy the Ultimate are probably into HD sound - early adopters are usually into the bells and whistles - the inclusion of the HD DVD drive is an attractive feature. For movie buffs, the HD DVD drive should shift many of the new consoles. Unless Blueray makes more inroads before its release, that is. If it does the HD DVD inclusion might not seem so smart or attractive to people.

Anyway we're basing all of this on rumour and speculation. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

bucks73

Sound is the main reason I wont be downloading from Marketplace. I have a 6.1 setup and would rather buy the DVD than have to settle for stereo sound. Now if they include 5.1 or better sound in the future then I would consider it.

If the rumour does turn out to be true and a HD DVD player is included then I would definitely upgrade. Couldnt care about wifi or bigger HD at the moment but the HD DVD player would do it for me.

unklerosco

bucks73 wrote: »

If the rumour does turn out to be true and a HD DVD player is included then I would definitely upgrade. Couldnt care about wifi or bigger HD at the moment but the HD DVD player would do it for me.

If Blue Ray ends up getting backing from 100% of the movie industry would u still get it if it inc the HD drive??? At this stage I wouldnt't go for a HD player.... I have one n its great but I got it just after it was released. Right now I wouldn't buy one... It'll be interesting to see what happens now.

I suppose now that Sony got that Blue Ray boost Toshiba will prob be pushing to get a HD drive inside the 360 to try n boost sales, but will Microsoft want that?? They did always say they where never gonna include one cause they wanted to see how the format war was gonna pan out. There's nothing to stop the 360 getting a internal BR drive... well, apart from the price....


As for movie downloads... In a sense I suppose ur right about the loss of quality vs size. But then, I'll watch a downloaded SD movie(700mb) over buying the dvd(dual layer- 9gb+/-) and the loss of quality never bothers me.. If its something I really want I'd buy the hard copy. For instance, I have planet earth on HD as its deffo worth it for the quality, I wouldn't download it. Random pic from 360 marketplace, Oceans 11... I'd download that over buying the hardcopy as the quality aint as important. I'd say I'd download about 80% n buy 20% on disc....

Movies are like games, great visuals don't mean a great end product... I'd rather watch something great on SD than something crap on HD

Ciaran500

Its "Blu-ray"

Basq

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Its "Blu-ray"

It's "It's"

silvine

He eats, he shoots, he leaves!

quad_red

Zonda999 wrote: »

Despite that quote from microsoft, i could still see it happening in the future. Just remember that the 360 has a dvd drive so game developers have to squeeze their games on to the disc.A HD disk is going to be needed at some point for games if not for movies. The ps3 has no such problem, blu ray discs can hold something like 25gb single layer.Eventually, this ultimate will have to come or else a 360 successor.But microsoft have already said that they can see the 360 lasting at least as their secondary console until 2015

I don't think that's settled yet. A few months back there were stories all over joystiq and engagdet about a new way of compressing ingame textures that would hugely reduce the amount of space new 'high def' games would require on a disk. They claimed the tech would be applied soon enough.

Biro

Ciaran500 wrote: »

I don't think you understand what you are talking about.

Explain.