Min barrel length shotgun

newby.204

I know its come up before but iv done a fair bit of leg work(surfing) and plenty of reading cant find it anywhere, whats the official minimum barrel length for a shotgun? if anyone had a reference to where its written in stone that would help too?

newby.204

Went to Dept of Justice site and found what i was looking for sort of??
(the reason this is all typed out is because i am not so technically minded as to be able to copy and paste off a downloadable pdf doc.)

65
12A
"(2) It is not an offence under subsection (1) for a registered firearms dealer to shorten the barrel of a shot-gun or rifle to a length of less than 61 or 50 centimetres respectively if the sole purpose of doing so is to replace a defective part of the barrel with a barrel of not than 61 or 50 centimetres, as the case may be"

"(6) It is an offence for a person (except a registered firearms dealer) to possess without lawful authority or reasonable excuse-

(a) a shot-gun the barrel of which is less than 61 centimetres in length"


As to section (2) i cant wrap my head around at this hour, however under 12Asection (6) its my understanding, and I am open to correction that if you can give a good reason you may possess a shotgun with a barrel less than 61 cent(24 inch)!

Mellor

Hmm, I don't think so.
I read into it that the only people who can possess a shotgun <61cm legally are a Dealer (firearms obviously), and somebody acting under the law (Garda etc). If you have one in your possession with a reasonable excuse then it is not an offence, but you won't be able to keep it in your possession. You won't be able to seek prior premission either.

but what exactly is a reasonable excuse? What possibly need could someone have?

sidneyreilly

Good few people own and love winchester 1798's from the war of independence. 16 inch barrell.

Mellor

Are they not an exception through being historic/antiques or similar

José Alaninho

Think it basically means you can't buy one but you can get your dealer to chop one down for you, 'if the purpose is to replace a defective part', ie if your choke somehow melted(:eek:) or seized or somethin

sidneyreilly

Although I dont think this section actually refers to FAC holders: Note that the section is titled: “Shortening
barrel of shotgun
or rifle.


Also Note: It is an offence for a person (except a registered
firearms dealer) to possess without lawful
authority or reasonable excuse—

Lawful authority being an FAC? It should also be noted that a 50cm(20ins) rifle would mean a hell of a lot of carbine owners (usually 18ins) are criminals! If it was blanket unlawful why would barrel lenghts be mentioned in the draft restricted list?

I think this section is designed to have another charge to throw at joe crim when he gets caught with a sawnoff!

Banjax

You can own a gun with 25 inch barrels, I know 2 men with aya xxv's (the old churchill style barrels) which are quite a handy woodcock gun.

Mellor

José Alaninho wrote: »

Think it basically means you can't buy one but you can get your dealer to chop one down for you, 'if the purpose is to replace a defective part', ie if your choke somehow melted(:eek:) or seized or somethin

I don't think so, you have to read the rest, its ok to chop one down, if the purpose is to replace a defective piece with one "not less than 50 or 61"

so, dealer can shorten it as long as he repairs it to full size.

Banjax wrote:

You can own a gun with 25 inch barrels, I know 2 men with aya xxv's (the old churchill style barrels) which are quite a handy woodcock gun.

25 in inches is greater than 61cm, so there would be no problem there

Banjax

I suppose the gunsmith clause is to allow for shortening of barrels where blockages have caused bulges or ruptures, and that's fine as long as its not shortened to less than 24 odd inches.

Also, it would allow someone to sleeve a shotgun, as in cut the originals off at the chamber and weld on new barrels of the original length (or not less than 24 odd inches).

In any case, 24 odd inches, or 25 even, is quite short by anyones standards.

kowloon

So is it perfectly legal for me to buy a 24" barrel to replace my 28"?

Banjax

I've no idea is its legal for you to do that or not, all I know is what the legislation says regarding allowable barrel length.

rrpc

kowloon wrote: »

So is it perfectly legal for me to buy a 24" barrel to replace my 28"?

No. The law specifies the minimum length as 61cm which is 24.0157"

Not being picky but 24" is less than 61cm.

José Alaninho

rrpc wrote: »

No. The law specifies the minimum length as 61cm which is 24.0157"

Not being picky but 24" is less than 61cm.

So you could technically lose your license / go to jail for that extra 0.157 if an inch? Idiotic legislation. Anyone of ye lads thinking of running for TD? A fellow shooter'd get my vote.

IRLConor

José Alaninho wrote: »

So you could technically lose your license / go to jail for that extra 0.157 if an inch? Idiotic legislation.

They have to have a cut off somewhere. It would be a bit silly if they said "a sure go on, it's only a little bit". It's just the way laws work.

José Alaninho wrote: »

Anyone of ye lads thinking of running for TD? A fellow shooter'd get my vote.

I'd rather play piano in a whorehouse.

Corega

Can't check this because I'm in work and they don't let you view any pages with the heading or content of "weapons" :rolleyes: However, I think it's Stoeger that make them, these really nifty stage coach guns that reek of Butch Cassidy and sophistication. Would these be illegal or can you buy them here? Again apologies for not posting a link, I'd imagine you all know of the ones I'm talking about anyway.

José Alaninho

I just can't cop this legislation. I mean if any criminal scumbags wanted to all they have to do is cut the damn thing down with a hacksaw!

As usual this legislation only ever actually inhibits the legitimate shooter / sportsman. I mean look at the competitive slug-shooting scene. Surely a 20 inch rifle-sighted barrel (the only length they come in) would be a great advantage over a rib in such a competition? But no. Madness I say, and madness again.

It wasn't me!

The fact of the matter is that criminals, by their nature, do not obey the law, so what does it matter whether there's a limit from their point of view? The laws are to make it valid to take in guys for possession of sawn-offs and the like. Just have to bear with it really.

José Alaninho

Most sawn-offs would be way under 20 inches anyway; in most cases under 15. They could have taken the legal limit down to that, thereby not affecting legitimate shooters at all. Forgive me, there is no love lost between myself and the government on certain issues.

Mellor

José Alaninho wrote: »

Most sawn-offs would be way under 20 inches anyway; in most cases under 15. They could have taken the legal limit down to that, thereby not affecting legitimate shooters at all. Forgive me, there is no love lost between myself and the government on certain issues.

don't be silly, then a sawn off at 16inches would be legal. Hardly any use.
The fact of the matter is we use metric, 61cm for shotguns. This is closest to 24" (closer than 60cm is). Are 24" shotguns made, I imagine they are given in metric, so as long as it was listed as 61cm, it is ok,

"Surely a 20 inch rifle-sighted barrel (the only length they come in)"
These would be ok if they had a rifled barrel for slugs. Sort of a loophole

José Alaninho

Mellor wrote: »

don't be silly, then a sawn off at 16inches would be legal.

I meant a 20 inch limit. Apologies.

So rifled barrels are legal?

IRLConor

José Alaninho wrote: »

So rifled barrels are legal?

If they are not less than 50cm (19.685 inches) in length, then yes.

José Alaninho

IRLConor wrote: »

If they are not less than 50cm (19.685 inches) in length, then yes.

Excellent! How about rifle-sighted smoothbore though? Why are they illegal? I'm feckin confused already...

IRLConor

As I understand it:

Smoothbore (regardless of sights) means it's a shotgun: 61cm minimum.

Rifled barrel (even if it's a shotgun) means it's a rifle: 50cm minimum.

(Why the minimum lengths are what they are is above my pay grade )

rrpc

José Alaninho wrote: »

Excellent! How about rifle-sighted smoothbore though? Why are they illegal? I'm feckin confused already...

I presume it's because of the spread of shot. The whole purpose of a sawn-off shotgun is not just that you can put it in your pocket, but that the shot spreads out quicker and does more damage at close range. Useless at long range and therefore no use to the genuine sportsman.

If there are factory produced shotguns on the market with barrel lengths of less than 61cm, then the question is what were they designed for?

kowloon

http://www.oneclickoptics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=46294

24" barrel w/ bead sights, not a slug barrel.
You can buy standard pump guns with 24" barrels in the states, seem to be common enough.

Maybe 61cm was picked over 24" on purpose as this is a standard length.

The 24" is the length of barrel projecting, if you measured the barrel off the gun it's longer.
My 28" barrel measures 29.1" (~74cm,) if you include the extras.

José Alaninho

rrpc wrote: »

If there are factory produced shotguns on the market with barrel lengths of less than 61cm, then the question is what were they designed for?

I get your point. You can buy rifle-sighted barrels with rem-chokes that work much the same as any other barrel, the only difference being the sight type. They are designed for deer hunting with buckshot or rifled slugs (illegal here, correct?). Rifled barrels are only for use with sabot slugs.

My point is that if you could get a rifle-sighted smoothbore you could use it comfortably for both shot and slugs without having to change barrels. Just a convenience thing I guess, and beginning to look like a bit of a moot point to me. I'm happy with my 26" rib, was just curious.

IRLConor

José Alaninho wrote: »

I get your point. You can buy rifle-sighted barrels with rem-chokes that work much the same as any other barrel, the only difference being the sight type. They are designed for deer hunting with buckshot or rifled slugs (illegal here, correct?). Rifled barrels are only for use with sabot slugs.

If you had a rifled barrel then I suspect it would be technically legal for deer if you used a solid projectile. The minimums as far as I know are .22-250 with a 50 grain projectile, a 12 gauge (.729 in) with a solid slug (which would almost certainly exceed 50 grains) should at least in theory pass. I don't see any projectile energy requirements.

Now, if you actually went to try and get a deer permit with such a gun you'd probably be told to PFO and get a more normal deer hunting rifle.

José Alaninho

Average 12 gauge slug is somewhere round 700 grain :eek:! I'd like to see the deer that'd stand up to that. Still, IRLConor is right, go looking for a deer permit with a shotgun and you know what you'll be told.

Anyone have any opinion on a 24" cantilever with a reddot for, say, upland birds / duck? I reckon it might make for easier target acquisition. (Don't hunt much myself, just my 2 cents).

José Alaninho

rrpc

I doubt that a red dot sight would be any use for flying target because you have to lead the target and therefore the red dot would not be 'on' anything for acquisition.

Apart from the difficulty of looking through any kind of restricted view sight for fast moving targets.