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Can Atheists be Parents?

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  • 03-01-2008 10:13am
    #1
    cavedave
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭


    Time Story
    "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."

    Do you think children should be raised not believing in Supreme beings?

    I have read that Richard Dawkins brought his daughter up Church of England so an Atheist going along with religion to some extent is not unknown.

    How about other supernatural beings? What would your children be told about the tooth fairy or Santa?


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    #2
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    how would a child born to catholic parnets be able to choose what church it went to? or a child born to muslim parents? or a child born to bloody stupid parents?

    --edit

    that story is from sodding 1970!


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    #3
    hairyheretic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭hairyheretic


    Mordeth wrote: »
    that story is from sodding 1970!

    I took it to mean the boy was adopted in 1970 (given it gives his age now as 31), but the girl was last year, which does make it a bit more recent a vintage.


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    #4
    18AD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭18AD


    Can humans be parents?...


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    #5
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    cavedave wrote: »
    I have read that Richard Dawkins brought his daughter up Church of England so an Atheist going along with religion to some extent is not unknown.
    Thats an interesting one, got a reference for it ?


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    #6
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    cavedave wrote: »
    Do you think children should be raised not believing in Supreme beings?
    Children should be raised to think for themselves, and to decide themselves what they believe.


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    #7
    Stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen


    In answer to the question posed in the thread title: Yes. Atheists have the same equipment as believers :p

    Also, I think the son was 31 in 1970, not 31 years later...


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    #8
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    "The child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."
    Holy crap that's more ironic than a hundred Alanis Morrisette songs.


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    #9
    cavedave
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    The story was in the Irish Times Saturday supplement and mentioned this
    letter. The letter does not say he sent his daughter to a church of England school though. In fairness I do not want to say Dawkins did baptise his Children without reference so I withdraw that suggestion.

    None the less Atheists of a evidence based kind do tell there children fairy stories of various kinds (ho ho ho reindeer flying etc). Are these ok?
    that story is from sodding 1970!

    Sorry I should have made it clear that the post was of a "At least things are not that bad anymore" kind


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    #10
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Some Judge wrote:
    "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."
    Thankfully, the state Supreme Court reversed the lower court's decision around six months later, in July 1971. See the full reversal text here.

    The last page, is worth a read:
    Chief Justice Weintraub wrote:
    I do know that neither when they were admitted to the bar nor when they were appointed to the bench, were judges asked to establish the acceptability of their own tenets or a capacity to appraise the tenets of others. As for me, I disclaim any expertise whatever. I have already interred too many of my eternal truths.


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    #11
    MoominPapa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭MoominPapa


    All is well. The godless freaks got their wicked way in the end clicky


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    #12
    hairyheretic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭hairyheretic


    Stephen wrote: »
    Also, I think the son was 31 in 1970, not 31 years later...

    It would seem so, judging by the later links posted.

    Why is the story getting repeated now? Has something similar happened that it's being brought up for comparison?


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    #13
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Dades wrote: »
    Holy crap that's more ironic than a hundred Alanis Morrisette songs.

    lol :D


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    #14
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    robindch wrote: »
    Thankfully, the state Supreme Court reversed the lower court's decision around six months later, in July 1971. See the full reversal text here.

    The last page, is worth a read:

    Cracking stuff! Some particularly pleasing excerpts:

    "we are spared the task of deciding how many points should be charged against them because their articles of faith concerning a Supreme Being may deviate from our private views to a degree we severally cannot stand."

    "I can think of nothing more unmanageable than an inquiry into a man's religious, spiritual and ethical creed. There is no catalogue of tolerable beliefs. Nor would the nature of man permit one, for man is inherently intolerant as to matters unknowable, and the intensity of his intolerance is twin with the intensity of his views."

    "No matter how it is phrased or explained, an inquiry into religious, spiritual and ethical views can mean no more than this, that a man or a woman is unfit, or a bit unfit, to be a parent, natural or adoptive, if his or her thoughts exceed the tolerance of the mortal who happens to be the judge in a placement bureau or in the judiciary. I find such an inquiry to be as offensive as it is meddlesome..."

    Mmm. Declamatory rhetoric...I love it.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #15
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    No, atheists should be neutered ASAP.


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    #16
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    I dunno i came across the story yesterday on pharnugly, he didn't notice the date either, somebody dugg it or farked it and it rose through the user rec sites...


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    #17
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Cavedave, I must say your thread title is a bit estebancambiesque.


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    #18
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    If your going to make a little joke, at least get the name right.....its an a not an e. Capiche.;)


    When did I ever ask a rhetorical question anyway?


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    #19
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    estebancambias wrote: »
    If your going to make a little joke, at least get the name right.....its an a not an e. Capiche.;)

    Actually he was right. That last e comes from esque.


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    #20
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    CambiAsso. There is no e.


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    #21
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    actually estebancambias is second person spanish (the as)

    me-cambio
    you-cambias
    he/she-cambia
    we-cambiamos
    them-cambais
    they-cambian


    Am i right? Haven done spanish in years but thats how i think it goes. So putting an old englisg esque at the end of the sentence yer man sed would have to be estecambianesque=)

    And yes atheists should be nutered!! not cause their beliefs will bring up little cold devils but because the world is rediculously overpopulated and your better off to adopt a child from a 3rd world and bring it up right where it can go back to its world and try to help its people out.


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    #22
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Cambiar = to change

    Cambias = you change (present tense)

    But he said it's Cambiasso, I don't think that's Spanish :(


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    #23
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Can children be atheists ?

    My youngest got confronted and hassled about her not believing in "God" by one of her classmates and the classmate said that god could make her belief in God and my daughter said God could not.

    The classmate counter that God could do anything and again my daughter said God can not, the classmate then listed all the things God has done saying God can do anything and there were no other Gods.

    My daughter retorted that the class mate was wrong that her God could not make a 4 cornered triangle and could not make her believe in him.

    This she relayed to me with a smug grin on her way home

    Needless to day after this exchange on the schoolyard the teacher had a stressful afternoon with the class the majority of whom are meant to be making their first holy communion in a few months.


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    #24
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    You've got a pretty sharp witted daughter there.
    I don't think I was capable of such lucid thought at that age, come to think of it I'm still not.


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    #25
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Impressive, I was 20 before I reached that level.


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    #26
    normar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭normar


    Yes.

    Athiests can be parents.
    Evolutionary development of humankind did not exclude Athiests from the biological processes of replication.

    But what is the real question you want answered?

    Could this be the answer: Children should be raised to question critically, to think for themselves, and in such a way as to help them to decide themselves what they believe when they are older and able to.


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    #27
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    nice post. nail on the finger=)


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    #28
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    normar wrote: »
    Yes.

    Athiests can be parents.
    Evolutionary development of humankind did not exclude Athiests from the biological processes of replication.

    But what is the real question you want answered?

    Could this be the answer: Children should be raised to question critically, to think for themselves, and in such a way as to help them to decide themselves what they believe when they are older and able to.

    But then there'd be no bigots or fundamentalists to mock


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    #29
    cavedave
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    normar

    But what is the real question you want answered?

    What lies is it ok to tell children?


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    #30
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    the Boogeyman
    Santa
    Tooth Fairy
    Easter Bunny
    Fairies
    the Loch Ness Monster

    I could go on...


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    #31
    Princess J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭Princess J


    In answer to the thread question first put forward about Athiests having children - why on earth couldn't they? In my opinion, based on personal experience, whatever your own personal faith I believe you should raise your children to have the independence to educate themselves and make their own choice regarding religion. My mother is athiest and my father is Church of England. My sister and I were both baptised and brought to Church of England services when we were younger, but always knew our mom had a different religion. After moving to Ireland at the age of ten, we were no longer brought to church, simply because there were no Church of England churches for my father to bring us! We were brought up to have our own beliefs and neither of our parents are bothered by what we have "chosen" to be. Mt sister when asked says she is agnostic and as for myself, if I have to give a label I would say I am a Pagan, as I guess my beliefs would kind of swing that way mostly. But I do not really follow a specific path, I just try to do the best I can and be a decent human being.

    As for what lies is it ok to tell little children..........I think that that is a tough call. In an idealistic world I would prefer not to tell my child(ren) about fictitious characters who manage to deliver presents to all the "good" children in the world in one night or such like. I also think it is kinda bad how some parents use this fear as a bribe to get their children to be "good" (I do not believe in labelling children good or bad, it is their actions that are positive or negative) However, such is the world that I feel I would be isolating my child(ren) and possibly subjecting to bullying from peers if I did not go along with such stories. It is a tough call and one I'm dreading when I do have children.


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