Atmosphere at football grounds?

herbieflowers

Just reading Fergie's comments on how Old Trafford was "dead" in terms of atmosphere against Birmingham. The Independent MU fans rep Colin Hendrie said that that was due to the police state nature of Old Trafford security who, allegedly, expel from the ground those who stand up.

With the prices of tickets spiralling out of control (pricing many loyal and hardcore fans out of the game) added to the all-seater stadia do people feel the atmosphere at games is diminshing?

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Being forced to sit down is a joke imo.

Football is an emotional game and as such, people will be jumping, standing, ranting and shouting at matches. To take this away is foolish, and will cause a backlash.

Also, the amount of people at games who don't know the chants is increasing all the time. Football in England has become more of a "family day out" than the "get pissed up and go to the game" heyday of the 1970s.

I mean, look at the words of some of the hate filled chants, Build a Bonfire for example. You aren't going to get Little Johnnie 11-Year-Old and his little sister at games with their mother and father getting involved in these kinds of chants, or, in fact, Little Li the Asian Teenager on a "trip of a lifetime" from Kuala Lumpur. These people don't chant, they want the comfort that they have when sitting at home watching on the TV.

There should be proper reserved spaces for standing and chanting.

But then again. Stadiums with supporters baying for each other's blood aren't exactly the nicey nice image that the EPL portrays for itself in this day and age.

It's no co-incidence that the away fans of many of the teams are the most vocal. These are the proper hardcore fans.

Mitch Connor

It is not just stewards and police though - some fans don't like their match day experience being interupted by the loud guy sitting a few seats away.

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Tauren wrote: »

It is not just stewards and police though - some fans don't like their match day experience being interupted by the loud guy sitting a few seats away.

You make it sound negative, but this is the traditional way to watch football. Being the loud guy. Just look at some of the footage from the 50s and 60s and 70s. People with them clacker things, everyone standing and cheering and singing.

But, times are a changing. Why? I'll tell you why. People want to re-create the experience they have while sitting at home in a quiet front room watching a game of ball.

Exactly why there should be special areas for people who want to sit quietly and watch the game.

TBH, I sometimes go to games and sit in the Main Stand in Tolka Park for this very reason. I sometimes just want to watch the match, without the clamour and noise of the New Stand with it's chanting, flares and whatever else is going on, other times I love being in the thick of it, waving a big flag, calling the opposition players every cúnting thing under the sun, telling the lineswoman to get her tits out, having the banter with the opposition fans and generally supporting my team.

KdjaCL

Its the law in england to sit and has been since early 90s and the Taylor Report hardly an excuse now for any fan that they are forced to sit.


kdjac

prendy

i think in general standing creates a better atmosphere.unfortunatly it also creates more potential problems for the stewards and police.

estebancambias

Whats it like in Germany? Their fans seem vocal but at the same time behave in a good manner---generally. I think when I seen Hamburg beat Bayern two years back, it was probably, other than Ireland vs Holland the best atmosphere I had ever seen.

quarryman

herbieflowers wrote: »

With the prices of tickets spiralling out of control (pricing many loyal and hardcore fans out of the game) added to the all-seater stadia do people feel the atmosphere at games is diminshing?

i think its more like the casual fans that will get priced out of the game. If you are loyal/hardcore you're going to stump up.

KdjaCL

prendy wrote: »

i think in general standing creates a better atmosphere.unfortunatly it also creates more potential problems for the stewards and police.

http://www.bundesliga.de/en/liga/news/2007/index.php?f=75154.php

Hope to go to that when they play Bochum, standing can be done safely but english rightly wont take any chances in the PL.

Dont see why people want to got to a stadium with 75,000 people and watch a match in peace, thats seriously gay. Wear headphones and listen to classical music or something.

kdjac

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KdjaCL wrote: »

Dont see why people want to got to a stadium with 75,000 people and watch a match in peace, thats seriously gay. Wear headphones and listen to classical music or something.

Yes, yes it is.

How can people go to live football and NOT end up getting emotionally involved? How can they NOT "FFS REF THAT WAS NEVER FÚCKING OFFSIDE YOU BLIND WANKER"

Mitch Connor

DesF wrote: »

You make it sound negative, but this is the traditional way to watch football. Being the loud guy. Just look at some of the footage from the 50s and 60s and 70s. People with them clacker things, everyone standing and cheering and singing.

Sorry, my tone did not come across right - i like the standing and the singing.

Guy:Incognito

DesF wrote: »

Being forced to sit down is a joke imo.

Nothing got to do with it. If people want to create an atmosphere they do. Unfortunately the game has gone more corporate and that brings fairweather fans and people who arent fans at all but either get tickets for nothing through work, want to go see what all this "soccer" lark is about or have a general interest in football but dont get involved.

The other aspect is foreign fans to an extent (no need to point out any irony) but the ones I'm talking about, I'll use Liverpool as an example cos it's all I know, are the likes of the Spaniards who are only over because of the Spaniards at the club.

The last time Iwas over I was in the main stand and the majority of the area around me was a ,mix of the types I've described and you cant get any chanting or much of an atomsphere going with that.There was a large group of Spaniards whop just kept blowing the paper horns every so often and the only thing that got them cheering was when Alonso came out to warm up along the line in front of the stand.

Maybe sellig tickets on the internet is killing it? Sell from ticket stands at the ground and maybe it'll get rid of the lads who want an easy trip to watch the footer.

blastman

I was at the Utd-Brum game that Fergie was giving out about. To be honest the atmosphere did feel very dead (although we were in the south stand near the Stretford End and there was some good noise coming from there), but it was New Year's Day so me and the mate I was there with put it down to new year blues coupled with the remains of the night before. All-seater stadiums aren't helping though and most supporters groups are in favour of a safe standing area at grounds. I think it would be a good idea.

estebancambias

What do 'boardsies' make of Irish match atmosphere.

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estebancambias wrote: »

What do 'boardsies' make of Irish match atmosphere.

You mean at international games?

A joke tbh.

Ire-land clap clap clap
Fields of Athenry
Olé Olé
and Mexican wave.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

KdjaCL

estebancambias wrote: »

What do 'boardsies' make of Irish match atmosphere.

The booing and the jeering can be deafening at times, but on the whole the main noise comes from the EL fans section Delaney had the bright idea to stick them all together in lansdowne which was a good idea :eek:

But tbh IRELAND IRELAND and booing fo ex rangers players can only last for so long.


kdjac

citytillidie

Best Atmosphere at a match i was at was when Derry played Grenta at Fir Park 3000 mad Derry fans standing and everyone singing together was great.

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citytillidie wrote: »

Best Atmosphere at a match i was at was when Derry played Grenta at Fir Park 3000 mad Derry fans standing and everyone singing together was great.

It wasn't only Derry City fans in that section

estebancambias

I always wanted to be in the stand where the good atmosphere is...When I went to the game against Canada there was great atmosphere because the area was all standing.

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When the hell did Ireland play Canada?

citytillidie

DesF wrote: »

It wasn't only Derry City fans in that section

Glory Hunter

estebancambias

Andy Reids debut. The Thompson guy also played. I think it was Kavanaghs first game in years.

KdjaCL

Beat canada 3-1 i think

desf = glory hunter...

kdjac

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citytillidie wrote: »

Glory Hunter

KdjaCL wrote: »

desf = glory hunter...

I wasn't in Scotland that time.

Einsturzende, or however the hell he spells it, was though.

Glosy hunter? lol

citytillidie

The Eircom League has better Armosphere than the EPL

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citytillidie wrote: »

The Eircom League has better Armosphere than the EPL

Even I wouldn't say that.

Blefield anyone?

KdjaCL

We can stand tho, portsmouth seem to create a decent atmosphere without standing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WelpDm_Scd8&feature=related

derry vs gretna always makes me chuckle, won few hundred on that game

kdjac

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KdjaCL wrote: »

We can stand tho, portsmouth seem to create a decent atmosphere without standing.

lol

Cow Bell ≠ Good Atmosphere.

Gavin "shels"

Ferguson refered to the match atmosphere as being like a funeral.:D




No Al Calcio Moderno

blastman

Good opinion piece here....

Why we're not singing any more

Fratton Fred

My brother in law from Monaghan is a Chelsea fan and he sat with us in the away "Bit" at Stamford Bridge last season, he couldn't bellieve that all the fans sung almost all the game. It doesn't come accross like that on TV though as in Stamfor Bridge the away fans were banished to the corner of the Shed and the East Stand, so they couldn't give Mourinho abuse:D

pompey have a very different make up to most premiership fans, something like 60% of the fans walk to the game because they are locals. Everyone in Portsmouth is a Pompey fan and the ones that don't live in Portsmouth are exiles rather than fans because the manager is a national hero who used to play for united:rolleyes: You will quite often find three generations of the same family standing next to each other all calling the ref a blind wanker. (I learnt my first swear words at fratton park, standing on the Boiler Makers hump which was the section of the north stand where the boiler makers from the dockyard used to stand with their sons)

Generally speaking though, we are the best fans inthe Premiership:p

Gavin "shels"

Look at the atmosphere at a Pompey game and compare it with a Man U game, there's no comparsion.

Then look at when Man U are playing away against say a smaller club like Derby, you only get the hardcore fans making the journey with virtually no bandwagoners or foriegners and Man U fans create a great atmosphere. All leads back to the fairweather fans who want a 3 or 4 nil win every game.

People give out about the all-seater stadiums playing a part in bad atmosphere, well to say the least thats nonsense. Have a look at Polish, Italian, German, etc... all-seater stadiums and the noise created by the fans.

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

People give out about the all-seater stadiums playing a part in bad atmosphere, well to say the least thats nonsense. Have a look at Polish, Italian, German, etc... all-seater stadiums and the noise created by the fans.

Welcome to the Wall, it holds 24000 fans in Dortmund.

All standing.

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

Then look at when Man U are playing away against say a smaller club like Derby, you only get the hardcore fans making the journey with virtually no bandwagoners or foriegners

You're forgetting the Cockney Reds who travel in large numbers to Utd games, certainly games down south.

The problem in England is that fans have been beaten down by 20 years of being treated like scum by the powers that be. Prices have spiralled, and the rush to build concrete soul-less bowls has taken all of the life out of top flight football in England. Why do you think clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Boro, Fulham have such sh1t fans? They don't have a load of bandwagoners or day trippers. Any club that needs to play music after they score a goal should be barred from the league...

It started with Thatcher and has continued under the other lot, football fans are met with distrust wherever they set foot...not the fan who brings his kids to one game a season, and spends a fortune in the club shop, but the fan who likes a drink, and swears in the stadium, and sneaks a smoke in the bogs, and refers to police as Old Bill...these are the people who create an atmosphere at football grounds.

It suited Thatchers project for a "better" Britain, as football fans were overwhelmingly working class, so while her police force were cracking down on the bootboys at football, they were also cracking miner's skulls and helping smash the print unions for Murdoch and co...the delicious irony of it all...

FWIW, the best fans in the EPL are West Ham's...much as it pains me to say...Pompey are good, but I could have heard a pin drop when we played them last month at Fratton Park (prompting chants of "sing for the telly" from us)...best away fans are ManYoo, Pompey, Villa, Wham, and I'd like to think Spurs.

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Fratton Fred wrote: »

Generally speaking though, we are the best fans in the Premiership:p

Because you have a cow bell!? lol

therecklessone wrote: »

Any club that needs to play music after they score a goal should be barred from the league...

Unless it's La Bamba

But yeah, that tune from the first division sickens me, Cork City sing it The Webel Awmy. (that's not a typo)

therecklessone wrote: »

the fan who likes a drink, and swears in the stadium, and sneaks a smoke in the bogs, and refers to police as Old Bill...these are the people who create an atmosphere at football grounds.

Yes we are.

Not "Old Bill" per se, in Dublin, we aren't cockneys. But still, this is exactly the person, the real, old fashioned football fan who is being chased out of existence.

"SSSSHHHHH....you might upset my gf with ur language."

Feck you and your gf, you don't belong at football, imo.

therecklessone wrote: »

best away fans are ManYoo,

Am quoting this because I know words of songs, from watching on the telly.


Hello Hello we are the...

I know this because I watch them on telly, and I can hear the chants.

Peyton Manning

Well, it looks like the Safe Standing campaign isnt gonna be too effective anyway

MANCHESTER United have dealt a major blow to the growing fans' campaign for safe standing areas by ruling out the return of terracing at Old Trafford.
United have written to the Premier League indicating they will not be taking up the offer of a standing trial from Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council, who issue the safety certificate for Britain's biggest League venue.
And fans' leaders fear United's refusal to allow standing, even on a trial basis, could have a knock-on effect at other Premiership clubs such as Manchester City and Charlton where fans are lobbying for small, safe standing areas.
Ironically, United's decision comes just as the Football Supporters' Association are preparing to leave on a fact-finding mission into the successful use of terracing in Germany.


The FSA's Kevin Miles, Mark Longden and Phil Gateley leave for Germany on February 10 to launch the most exhaustive study of terracing safety issues ever undertaken by a British research team. They will present their evidence to Government, the Premier League, the FA and Football League, the Football Licensing Authority and the 92 League clubs in this country.
But it seems United and most of their Premier League counterparts are determined to resist attempts to reopen the standing debate.
A Premier League spokesman told Fanzone: "The chairmen remain unanimously opposed to the re-introduction of terracing in any form, as are the Government."

iregk

therecklessone wrote: »

Welcome to the Wall, it holds 24000 fans in Dortmund.

All standing.

Now that was the best atmosphere i've ever experienced. While living in Germany and being an Eintracht fan we headed up to dortmund for an away game. The Dortmund fans are amazing 2nd best in Germany The Westfalenstadion has the most amazing noise you have ever heard in your life. Forget anything you have ever experienced in any premiership game because 3 german fans would make more noise on thier own. Sadly being away fans we couldn't get into the wall. Thats stictly the Ultras all season ticket section.

This is a better pic of it. http://faculty.ucc.edu/egh-damerow/050BorussiaDortmund.jpg

I've been in Anfield since the 80's looking at and even being in the old Kop. The old kop had absolutely nothing on this place!

dubmick

'The crowd were dead,' said the Scot. 'It was like a funeral it was so quiet.
'You need the crowd to create a good atmosphere. It is all right saying the players can make the crowd respond but in some situations, like this one, the crowd have to get behind the players.
'I think there have been days like this in the past. It happened some years ago, when we were dominant. The crowd have come to be entertained. It doesn't help us.'

---

Dear Mr Ferguson.

With regards to your comments concerning the atmosphere on New Years Days ‘big’ clash with Birmingham City at Old Trafford I would like to submit the following observations.

1. It was New Years Day….. most of the crowd were probably hung over/knackered or on corporate freebies (as quite a few people I knew were) or, on a jolly as they had tickets given to them cos the original ticket holder would not be attending due to it being New years and actually having a family, and a life outside of letting their wage packets be controlled by Mr Glazer and his ingenious ticket price increases and cup scheme deviousness .

2. You will probably find it will have been exactly the same atmosphere at a lot of grounds around the country. It is always quiet on New Years Day - even U2 sang about it being so…

3. If you want Old Trafford to be a ‘cauldron’ of intensity and fervour for the home team, why not make it affordable again to people on a normal wage? People say from Salford, Trafford, Stretford, to name a few. My brothers seats for this season are £45 each, he has been going since the 60’s and is United through and through, his comment regarding the price increases and cup game robbery plan? “ That’s it for me, how much can they keep squeezing a guy on a normal wage? They want us to pay £45 to watch the reserves playing teams like Exeter on a Wednesday night in the Carling cup, I wont be attending, so will be basically paying £45 to sit at home”. My brother and his mate are now buying a small fishing boat (no sh*t - my better off mates have took his books on) as he knows he can ‘day trip’ to games like most of our natural hometown support now have to. Maybe he will do so up the Irwell in his boat.

4. Because of the already mentioned price increases and the new ‘automatic cup con’ a lot of supporters now ‘share’ books, so go half as often, and get out of the habit of that home game mentality. You want to see the team, but you don’t feel a regular like you used to, so are not as up for it on every occasion as you feel a little bit of a stranger at times.

5. When I go for a meal and (pay £45 for the privilege) I do not expect to have to tell the chef how to cook it, or feel forced into encouraging him to perform his gastronomic skills for me, I complement him after I taste the food, I am after all the one who is doing the paying.

6. When I go to see a band - I do not expect to have to show them how to play their instruments or goad them into putting a good show on for me. They are being paid thousands of pounds for that 90 minutes onstage, it is their job, and I again am one of the ones who is paying. WE are the customers here, it is no different to any business

7. Win, lose or draw, the players (including yourself) earn £xxxthousands for that game – Win lose or draw. I pay £45 for the same game.

8. And finally – you are in footballing terms without doubt a hero for every fan of this club (including myself), and one of the greatesmanagers this country has seen. This however does not give you license to say whatever you want and pass judgement about people who have supported this club since birth, some while you were still cutting your managerial teeth at St Mirren. You are from the same area of Glasgow as my stepfather, who stood outside the steelworks everyday with his hand in the air asking for work, please do not loose contact with the common man, we do not take kindly to people in Ivory towers making out that it is our duty to make overpaid stars perform - or blaming the crowd if the players cannot be bothered to pick their game up - surely that is YOUR duty.

Maybe an idea is to pay them all less (including yourself) and cut ticket prices - I’ll then sing my b*llocks off every game as I’ll have had more money to spend on beer before the game to vibe me up on a cold winters morning, and also a bit extra in my wage packet every month for life’s necessities.


I shall await the “if you don’t like it you can go and watch Chelsea” reply…. Sir Matt would be turning in his grave.


Yours
A normal working class fan being gradually priced out
Salford.

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

Because you have a cow bell!? lol

You forgot the bugle and big silly hat:D

We even have drums for home matches:o

Kevster

Man, I love Dortmund's stadium. It's the Westfalenstadion, right?

Do any of ye go to premiership games much? I meant to ask what kind of racist/abusive things are said to players. I mean, Sol Campbell and an increasing amount of others are now speaking-out against abusive fans.

Fratton Fred

Kevster wrote: »

Man, I love Dortmund's stadium. It's the Westfalenstadion, right?

Do any of ye go to premiership games much? I meant to ask what kind of racist/abusive things are said to players. I mean, Sol Campbell and an increasing amount of others are now speaking-out against abusive fans.

There is a lot of abuse and there always has been. I think it is now some forms are less acceptable and have been replaced with unacceptable alternatives (I'll explain).

I remember in the early days of waching football, we had no black players at pompey, the crowds were very racist and if a black player came, he had racist abuse thrown at him. That form of abuse has gone (Thankfully) as it is now considered unaceptable.

Pompey fans have always given ex Southampton fans a "Scumming" even Shearer got it, but after the game was applauded off as he is widely respected. This is, I believe, acceptable. Wayne Bridge got it, scored against us and ran to the Pompey fans with his finger to his lip. I don't believe the police got any complaints about it, fair dos, he got a scumming and answered in the best possible way.

However, there seems to be abuse of a more personal nature, even as far as to threaten to kill peoples kids etc, this seems to have increased and is totally unacceptable it seemed to start with Beckham getting sent off against Argentina, has gone on to Ronaldo and Sol has had a lot from Tottenham fans for going to Arsenal (Which I can understand) and opposing fansafter his sexuality was brought into the public domain which is what I think lead to his public complaint. From what I can gather, Redkna got it at Villa from a bloke and his oung son, calling him a crook etc and making the sort of personal attack that could be considered libellous, fair enough if away fans are giving him stick, but for someone to stand behind the dugout all game, with a child and give constant personal abuse, i think that's a bit beyond the pail.

Davidth88

Much as I hate to agree with a Rottenham fan , I found myself totally agreeing with what therecklessone has to say..... I even agree about WHU fans, although I hate WHU, Upton Park has a great atmosphere. ( never been to Portsmouth ).

Chelsea used to have a great away following ( I went home/away every game for 4 - 5 years ) , no idea if they still do although I seem to hear them a lot on the telly.

I have noticed the few games I have been to recently that Stamford Bridge is becoming more like The Library ( Highbury ) every time.

I still think that safe terraces should be allowed , that way if someone is annoying you at least you can move... my nightmare would be you pay 1000 quid for a season tkt to find the bloke next to you is a complete muppet / bigot/ really annoying .

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Fratton Fred wrote: »

constant personal abuse, i think that's a bit beyond the pail.

Meh, I disagree totally.

If you can get inside an opposition player's head, and put him off his game, then that is acceptable.

When we played Cork City in the first round of the FAI Cup last season, for the whole second half I stood a yard from the touchline and abused their left winger from a huge height. Unrelenting abuse. He used to play for us. He kept inching and inching away from the touchline that day. I put him off his game.

Fast forward to Cup Final day, and I met the player in the bar after the match, and I asked if he remembered the abuse in Tolka that day. He said he did, and he'd thought he'd "killed that fella's family".

It works.

chopperbyrne

Jaysus Des that's a bit harsh. What kind of things were you saying?

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chopperbyrne wrote: »

Jaysus Des that's a bit harsh.

In fairness to the player, the night I met him, months later, he took it in good spirits, the night of the match there were people on the City bench laughing at me/him too.

I told him I'd do it again, and he said he looks forward to it.

And anyway, we lost the match

chopperbyrne wrote: »

What kind of things were you saying?

I couldn't possibly risk a ban from this forum by repeating myself

chopperbyrne

Not repeat the actual wording, but the gist of it.

Was it personal insults or just general "you're shít" stuff?

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

Meh, I disagree totally.

If you can get inside an opposition player's head, and put him off his game, then that is acceptable.

When we played Cork City in the first round of the FAI Cup last season, for the whole second half I stood a yard from the touchline and abused their left winger from a huge height. Unrelenting abuse. He used to play for us. He kept inching and inching away from the touchline that day. I put him off his game.

Fast forward to Cup Final day, and I met the player in the bar after the match, and I asked if he remembered the abuse in Tolka that day. He said he did, and he'd thought he'd "killed that fella's family".

It works.

it does work and it os part of a fans job afaiac. But there has to be limits. People were threatenting to kill Beckham's kids and crazy stuff like that. Constantly calling someone ****/scummer/ is fine, but a lot of the abuse can go too far.

KdjaCL

The abuse towards the player des abused does get nasty, same as what Goram used to get "only 2 andy gorams " etc:



kdjac

patmac

The problem with Old Trafford is that it's full of tourists from afar spending copious amounts of money in the club shop. I was at a match against Leeds a few years back and the atmosphere was crap because most people were there for the first time and were too busy looking around the stadium in awe to concentrate on the game. We travelled from Mullingar and the ferry arrived at 3am and some went drinking at that stage! So even though United won 3-2 one guy actually fell asleep during the game! They say that the European games are way better because of the lack of scandies, Asians and drunken/hungover Irish.
Pompey fans are great for all that singing but I find those 'Pompey Chimes' really annoying (sorry Fred) much like the England band playing those same idiotic tunes over and over, the great escape, Rule Brittania and GSOQ FFS change the record.

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KdjaCL wrote: »

The abuse towards the player des abused does get nasty, same as what Goram used to get "only 2 andy gorams " etc:

He deserved it for what he did to Shels tbh.

I was angry Des that night.

A Dub in Glasgo

KdjaCL wrote: »

The abuse towards the player des abused does get nasty, same as what Goram used to get "only 2 andy gorams " etc:

"Two Andy Gorams, there's only two Andy Gorams......."

I remember it well... fantastic