Atmosphere at football grounds?

Fratton Fred

patmac wrote: »

Pompey fans are great for all that singing but I find those 'Pompey Chimes' really annoying (sorry Fred) much like the England band playing those same idiotic tunes over and over, the great escape, Rule Brittania and GSOQ FFS change the record.

tell me about it

Gavin "shels"

DesF wrote: »

I was angry Des that night.

What did you forget that night, you cap or your smokes?:D




I have to laugh at this idea of a "Safe Standing campaign" by the Man Utd fans, it's an embarrassment to football fans in my eyes. In all the years I used to watch Man Utd on my couch (thank God them years are gone) Old Trafford was the only stadium I never seen anyone standing (except when a goal was scored).

What in the blue hell are the Police going to do if say 200 people stand up and starting singing in Old Trafford? escort everyone out of the ground who stood up:rolleyes:

For an example I know of, in Aberdeen it was the same as Old Trafford no standing allow in the stands, but then one season their Ultras (Red Ultras) got season tickets for one section all stood up singing for the game. And you look at their stadium know theres hundreds of people singing which started from about 60 people. If there's a will, there's a way.

KdjaCL

Man Utd fans tried that and lost, their season tickets where taken away.



kdjac

Gavin "shels"

KdjaCL wrote: »

Man Utd fans tried that and lost, their season tickets where taken away.



kdjac

That has to be a joke?

What was it a breach of season ticket terms and cons.:D

estebancambias

Does it really affect players though? Like when I had matches over near Rivervalley some of the people watching the opposite team were insane. I was like 15, and this old guy said to the player on the pitch ''knock his f**king head out. Ok its hardly personal, but surely it has the same effect. To be honest it didnt really get to me, I found it funny.

A Dub in Glasgo

Gavin shels wrote: »

I have to laugh at this idea of a "Safe Standing campaign" by the Man Utd fans, it's an embarrassment to football fans in my eyes. In all the years I used to watch Man Utd on my couch (thank God them years are gone) Old Trafford was the only stadium I never seen anyone standing (except when a goal was scored).

You used to watch MU from the couch and in all those years, you never saw anybody standing? Could it be that you have only watched MU this decade? People have been booted out of Old Trafford for standing. What is with all the rolleyes and embarrassment? You a wannabe ultra or something?

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

I have to laugh at this idea of a "Safe Standing campaign" by the Man Utd fans, it's an embarrassment to football fans in my eyes. In all the years I used to watch Man Utd on my couch (thank God them years are gone) Old Trafford was the only stadium I never seen anyone standing (except when a goal was scored).

The worst offenders in the Premier League are certainly Manchester United supporters. Relatively large numbers of them stand both at home and away, regardless of the quality of the sight lines.

Source: Jim Chalmers of the FLA Inspectorate, Season Review 1999-00

I make you 0 for 2 on the issue of standing at grounds so far.

Gavin "shels"

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You used to watch MU from the couch and in all those years, you never saw anybody standing? Could it be that you have only watched MU this decade? People have been booted out of Old Trafford for standing. What is with all the rolleyes and embarrassment? You a wannabe ultra or something?

Yes I have only watched MU this decade.

All I'm saying if there is a will there is a way, surely all the Man Utd supporters clubs could come together and get everyone to stand, maybe boycott matches if they're that passionate about the situation.

Definite an ultra?

Gavin "shels"

therecklessone wrote: »

Source: Jim Chalmers of the FLA Inspectorate, Season Review 1999-00

I make you 0 for 2 on the issue of standing at grounds so far.

8 years ago. Things have changed immensely in that time in English football.

therecklessone

Archimedes wrote: »

Well, it looks like the Safe Standing campaign isnt gonna be too effective anyway

That article you quoted is from 2001...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20010204/ai_n14524357

Roar

DesF wrote: »

Meh, I disagree totally.

If you can get inside an opposition player's head, and put him off his game, then that is acceptable.

When we played Cork City in the first round of the FAI Cup last season, for the whole second half I stood a yard from the touchline and abused their left winger from a huge height. Unrelenting abuse. He used to play for us. He kept inching and inching away from the touchline that day. I put him off his game.

Fast forward to Cup Final day, and I met the player in the bar after the match, and I asked if he remembered the abuse in Tolka that day. He said he did, and he'd thought he'd "killed that fella's family".

It works.

he's only a small fella. you should be ashamed.

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

8 years ago. Things have changed immensely in that time in English football.

Ah, I wasn't aware football in England only started 8 years ago...

http://www.standupsitdown.co.uk/news0306.htm

3rd March 2006

The Manchester Evening News contains a piece on Manchester United suspending it's loyalty points scheme that allows priority booking for those fans with the most points, for a forthcoming game at Bolton. The reason given is that the FLA have said that this scheme was 'rewarding those fans who are regularly persistently standing up at away games'.

therecklessone

From season 2000/01:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/1220088.stm

Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council have lifted their threat to close parts of Old Trafford.

The council were ready to shut down sections of the upper West and lower East stands because of the safety risk caused by persistent standing in these areas.

But the vast majority of Manchester United fans sat down during the Sturm Graz Champions League match, easing fears of councillors.

Some recent comments from ManYoo ST holders:

I am a Man U season ticket holder in the old K stand and to be honest a lot of what I would call real fans stand here anyway.

I'm a Stretford End season ticket holder, and like the K stander we tend to stand the whole game any way...and where is the best atmosphere in Old Trafford? Behind the goals...enough said. Standing definitely helps to lift the atmosphere so I'm all for the return of standing sections. We should be given the choice. STAND UP AND SUPPORT YOUR TEAM!

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12982_2801516_12975,00.html

Mr Alan

From my experience at Anfield, nowhere in the stadium really stands except the Kop (except during "moments of prolonged excitement", i believe the club refers to it as). This is because of the massive groups that are standing the stewards are really at a loss to do anything about it, i have seen and heard of people being thrown out of the stadium for this a few times already this season.

There is sections of the Kop that sit, and its a pain in the hole if you're stuck in one of these, as even if you choose to stand, because you stick out like a sore thumb the stewards are a lot more likey to do something about it.

The authorities have turned, pretty much a blind eye, to the standing issue, during European games, and the atmosphere is noticably better.

Anyway....i'll only comment on Liverpool but, yes the atmosphere is suffering in a big way over the last number of years and the reason is quite simply...

1)the number of daytrippers, people who are not real fans getting tickets too easily.
2)a lot of people who would claim to be real fans, who dont have a clue about the traditions of the club or any of the songs etc etc
3)the irish are the worst for this by a country mile (yes Des-i appreciate the irony)

Gavin "shels"

therecklessone I get your point and I admit to defeat on bad mouthing Man U fans and they're standing at matches. B

But say 10,000 fans stand up what will the police do? How can they shut down a stand wheres its proven it not a danger (unless its a terrace) in many Eastern European and Italian stadiums. And I thought the FAI were bad with their €100 fines for flares.:D

Have you ever seen the level of security in Croatia at football matches, its crazy but yet both Red Star Belgrade have I'd guess a standing support of like 10,000 maybe more and Dinamo Zagreb about 4,000-5,000 standing.

OPENROAD

Kevster wrote: »

Do any of ye go to premiership games much? I meant to ask what kind of racist/abusive things are said to players. I mean, Sol Campbell and an increasing amount of others are now speaking-out against abusive fans.

I really don't think that the abuse is as bad as it was,their will be exceptions to this, Campbell at Spurs and Cole at Arsenal for example,but to be honest even in the last 10 years things have continued to change a great deal in the premiership, so compared to the past it is not as bad as it used to be. Racism is all but gone imo, I have yet to witness any abuse against Black players in all the games I have been to with Arsenal, even the yiddo chant that used to be sung against spurs at Arsenal has started to disappear.

Mr Alan

Cole deserves ever single ounch of abuse he gets tbh

chopperbyrne

What about the 75,000 or so who stand at Wembley while their national anthem is being sung?

OPENROAD

Fratton Fred wrote: »

However, there seems to be abuse of a more personal nature, even as far as to threaten to kill peoples kids etc, this seems to have increased and is totally unacceptable it seemed to start with Beckham getting sent off against Argentina, has gone on to Ronaldo and Sol has had a lot from Tottenham fans for going to Arsenal (Which I can understand) and opposing fansafter his sexuality was brought into the public domain which is what I think lead to his public complaint. From what I can gather, Redkna got it at Villa from a bloke and his oung son, calling him a crook etc and making the sort of personal attack that could be considered libellous, fair enough if away fans are giving him stick, but for someone to stand behind the dugout all game, with a child and give constant personal abuse, i think that's a bit beyond the pail.

But compared to how things used to be, do you not think things are much better.

Gavin "shels"

Mr Alan wrote: »

3)the irish are the worst for this by a country mile (yes Des-i appreciate the irony)

No passion in this country anymore towards football that's why, internationally or at club level both in Ireland and britian.

I say we reverse (just football not anything else) to pre-1980's, then we'll be laughing.



http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0tkwqhXTc4
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=v5yHbDAz2Sc

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

Cole deserves ever single ounch of abuse he gets tbh

but he nearly swerved off the road when he was told we were offering him 55k a week rather than 60k.

Mr Alan

Gavin shels wrote: »

No passion in this country anymore towards football that's why, internationally or at club level both in Ireland and britian.

seems some people confuse genuine passion with putting a little paint on your face and wearing some sort of silly hat. its why i stopped going to Ireland games and why at times its mortifying over in Anfield.

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

But say 10,000 fans stand up what will the police do? How can they shut down a stand wheres its proven it not a danger (unless its a terrace) in many Eastern European and Italian stadiums. And I thought the FAI were bad with their €100 fines for flares.:D

Because the powers that be do not want standing to return at football, and they will take the necessary steps to ensure fans do not stand persistently in all-seater stadia. It is not simply a case of safety in grounds, but also of crwod control.

The all-seater policy itself, which emerged as the main recommendation from Lord Taylor's report, was not therefore a safety measure. It was as much about effective crowd control, especially the reduction of disorder

Letter from Minister for Sport to Chairman of the Football Supporters Federation

estebancambias

estebancambias wrote: »

Whats it like in Germany? Their fans seem vocal but at the same time behave in a good manner---generally. I think when I seen Hamburg beat Bayern two years back, it was probably, other than Ireland vs Holland the best atmosphere I had ever seen.

German stadiums have the safe terraces.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6458843.stm

OPENROAD

therecklessone wrote: »

Because the powers that be do not want standing to return at football, and they will take the necessary steps to ensure fans do not stand persistently in all-seater stadia. It is not simply a case of safety in grounds, but also of crwod control.


Very true, clubs certainly don't want to see a return of standing, and yes they do nit want persistent standing and for older supporters and kids persistent standing is going to ruin the game for them.

OPENROAD

OPENROAD wrote: »

Very true, clubs certainly don't want to see a return of standing, and yes they do nit want persistent standing and for older supporters and kids persistent standing is going to ruin the game for them.

hence the idea of a stnading section for the people who want the choice.

OPENROAD

Deleted User wrote: »

hence the idea of a stnading section for the people who want the choice.

I know re choice, but it just will not happen in the premiership.

Mr Alan

i agreel Liverpool and City (possibly others) have official singing sections. thats about the extent of it though.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

i agreel Liverpool and City (possibly others) have official singing sections. thats about the extent of it though.

Arsenal have one also and it has improved things to an extent but as you said that is as far as things will go.

Terraces are gone for good.

Mr Alan

i hope you're wrong, but unfortunately i dont think so.

i think the major clubs could get it changed, if they wanted it. but as has been said, they probably dont.

Mr Alan

Their is a movement at LFC called Reclaim The Kop, they are making an effort to improve the atmosphere at Anfield, they are behind the introduction of the singing section and other initiatives (for example they organised the march in support of Rafa) they also meet the club (Parry etc) regularly. They have addressed a number of the issues they feel are ruinning the club in their charter (below).

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=wX2-zLi-xlI

Anyone Irish going over to the game should really watch this.

Gavin "shels"

Mr Alan wrote: »

Their is a movement at LFC called Reclaim The Kop, they are making an effort to improve the atmosphere at Anfield, they are behind the introduction of the singing section and other initiatives (for example they organised the march in support of Rafa) they also meet the club (Parry etc) regularly. They have addressed a number of the issues they feel are ruinning the club in their charter (below).

Must say I love the Reclaim the Kop Tifo flags at the front of the Kop. But meeting the club is good but it can have it's bad sides (recently Red Utras of Aberdeen took down all their banners, stopped everything as their planned display against Rangers was called off by the club after it had been arranged).

Resistance

The problem in Britain isn’t just heavy handed cops and stewards. It’s over priced tickets, day trippers, corporate boxes etc etc. It’s pushing the real supporters out of the game. That’s why I love football over here so much, far more freedom for supporters to show their support for their team. You can take your tifo flags, two sticks, banners use flares, smoke canisters, megaphones stand for 90 minutes and sing your hearts out without hassle from other fans and stewards

Libertá per gli ultras:D

OPENROAD

Resistance wrote: »

The problem in Britain isn’t just heavy handed cops and stewards. It’s over priced tickets, day trippers, corporate boxes etc etc. It’s pushing the real supporters out of the game. That’s why I love football over here so much, far more freedom for supporters to show their support for their team. You can take your tifo flags, two sticks, banners use flares, smoke canisters, megaphones stand for 90 minutes and sing your hearts out without hassle from other fans and stewards

Libertá per gli ultras:D

I have to say I don't find the police or stewards heavy handed. Football has changed in England greatly in the last 15 years,and supposed with regards atmosphere,no terraces and all ticket matches have all had an impact.Have to say I really hate the term " real supporters", what exactly do you mean by it. As for corporate boxes, well it plays a huge huge role in a clubs finances not only on the field but also in helping to keep prices in line.

Xavi6

The problem we had at City was c. 1994 all the diehards stood together on the Kippax stand. Great atmosphere, singing for 90 minutes etc. Fast forward 10 years and those very same fans are no longer together as there season ticket allocations were for different sections of the new, bigger stadium. What was once a powerful group now is nothing more than scattered individuals, hence the generally dull atmosphere at the COMS.

OPENROAD

Xavi6 wrote: »

The problem we had at City was c. 1994 all the diehards stood together on the Kippax stand. Great atmosphere, singing for 90 minutes etc. Fast forward 10 years and those very same fans are no longer together as there season ticket allocations were for different sections of the new, bigger stadium. What was once a powerful group now is nothing more than scattered individuals, hence the generally dull atmosphere at the COMS.

That has played a huge part in the situation, before we moved into the Emirates,the club allocated a part of the ground as a singing section,it has helped us to an extent and the atmosphere can still be brilliant particularly for the big matches, just don't think you will ever create the same atmosphere that existed and in ways that is to be welcomed imo.

Gavin "shels"

Resistance wrote: »

The problem in Britain isn’t just heavy handed cops and stewards. It’s over priced tickets, day trippers, corporate boxes etc etc. It’s pushing the real supporters out of the game. That’s why I love football over here so much, far more freedom for supporters to show their support for their team. You can take your tifo flags, two sticks, banners use flares, smoke canisters, megaphones stand for 90 minutes and sing your hearts out without hassle from other fans and stewards

Libertá per gli ultras:D

Heavy handed cops! Ever see the cops in Poland?


I must agree with you on the thing about Irish football, you can't beat the passion and will.

AGAINST MODERN FOOTBALL!

homerjay2005

apparantly the stewards at old trafford have been told to relax and there was a noticable difference at the Newcastle game. 8 of my mates were at it and said the atmosphere was top notch.

from a united point of view,i have sat in all sections of the ground and some people get very annoyed at people standing up and singing. i have had a few rows with people over this. City have a vocal section,this should be standard at all grounds. when buying ticketsoff clubs,be it season or members,you should have the option of singing or non singing.

in general,most grounds get out sung by the away fans. i actually rather go to away games cos the atmosphere is always amazing.

OPENROAD

homerjay2005 wrote: »

some people get very annoyed at people standing up.

Don't blame them imo if it is persistent standing.

_blank_

OPENROAD wrote: »

Don't blame them imo if it is persistent standing.

pfft,

Football is an emotional game, people tend to stand.

If you don't want people standing in your way, watch in the comfort of your sitting room tbh.

homerjay2005

OPENROAD wrote: »

Don't blame them imo if it is persistent standing.

no,u can. its a football ground, not a f**king picnic area.

Third_Echelon

Wenger agrees with me:

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3047160,00.html

He said: "Liverpool is the same kind of support but Everton is a bit more aggressive because Everton is up at the moment.

"Over the last one or two years, especially, it has been one of the noisiest grounds and has a great atmosphere.

"Liverpool is the same but now a little bit more genteel."

Always a good atmosphere in Goodison. No heavy hands from the stewards either. All in all a great day out!

Gavin "shels"

DesF wrote: »

If you don't want people standing in your way, watch in the comfort of your sitting room tbh.

Or head don't to your local, dress top to bottom in your chosen British club tracksuits, jerseys, etc... and sit on your favourite bar stool.:rolleyes:

Theboinkmaster

Have to say as a massive United fan the atmosphere at any game I've been to at Old Trafford has been crap - prawn sandwich brigade indeed

Next time I go to a game I'll go to an away game methinks

PHB

good luck getting away tickets, they are essentially like gold dust

fullstop

homerjay2005 wrote: »

apparantly the stewards at old trafford have been told to relax and there was a noticable difference at the Newcastle game. 8 of my mates were at it and said the atmosphere was top notch.

from a united point of view,i have sat in all sections of the ground and some people get very annoyed at people standing up and singing. i have had a few rows with people over this. City have a vocal section,this should be standard at all grounds. when buying ticketsoff clubs,be it season or members,you should have the option of singing or non singing.

in general,most grounds get out sung by the away fans. i actually rather go to away games cos the atmosphere is always amazing.

The atmosphere at United v Newcastle was dire in the first half. It was only when United scored that it picked up, and lets be honest, it's easy to sing when your team is winning

OPENROAD

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no,u can. its a football ground, not a f**king picnic area.

Listen in England it is all seater,ok. Clubs are obliged to implement this.Persistent (note the word persistent) standing also tends to ruin the match for older people and kids.Or maybe you couldn't give a **** about them. You can still create a brilliant atmosphere sitting which as st holder I expereince on a regular basis.

guinnessdrinker

Resistance wrote: »

The problem in Britain isn’t just heavy handed cops and stewards. It’s over priced tickets, day trippers, corporate boxes etc etc. It’s pushing the real supporters out of the game. That’s why I love football over here so much, far more freedom for supporters to show their support for their team. You can take your tifo flags, two sticks, banners use flares, smoke canisters, megaphones stand for 90 minutes and sing your hearts out without hassle from other fans and stewards

Libertá per gli ultras:D

I agree, plus you can stand up without any hassle because we still have terraces in most grounds.

But I must say when I was at Goodison we could stand up in the stand with no hassle from stewards, although most of the people in the stand were standing for most of the match anway.