Kenya, it's not as widespread as you might think from the news

edanto

Kenya has been getting a lot of news coverage because of the dodgy elections and more so because of the outrageous violence.

The BBC report that the police fired shots over the head of people that tried to leave the slums to protest and forced them back, probably fearful. No-one knows if the police have been responsible for any of the deaths, but a good friend of mine worked in a Nairobi hospital a while back and she saw many, many people that had been rounded up and summarily shot by the police.

What's likely to happen is that the international pressure will force dialogue, possibly a recount, and the government will be formed. It's not going to be another Rwanda.

Strangly enough, when a journalist heard that from me today, he was disappointed!! It's not as much of a story!!

I've got a colleague over there at the moment that put it better than I could, when Spin1038 talked to him at lunchtime.

Spin1038 asked if the atrocities (e.g. the church) were true..
The wider picture is actually quite different, if anything most people are staying at home, people are staying out of work, the shops are closed, businesses are closed and most places are very very quiet, albeit something of an eerie silence.
There has been those specific incidents, but by and large Kenyans are deeply shocked by what has happened, they’re also very fearful for what might happen. If anything all the people we’re talking to here very much want things to settle down and to be able to get on with their lives.
The local media has been playing a key role today across all the TV stations and newspapers.
Spin1038: Will we be looking at another Rwanda?.... Is it about to explode?
No, in summary, no. While the individual events, I think the reporting of those is accurate, this is a very, very different situation from Rwanda. What happened in Rwanda was the result of a long term and premeditated campaign which .... Kenya is not on the verge of something similar. It may be on the verge of a period of unrest, I think what happens over the next few days is really important to try and avoid that.
Well that’s good news, at least. There's also reports of....

lostexpectation

well I think most people were trying to say just that its _not_ like rwanda, it seems that it mostly house burning rather people going for the kill, your headline should really be the killing isn't as widespread, it pretty bad though when 250,000 are displaced, funny how the opposition are claiming genocide when it was their supporters who burnt the church and all the houses in the west.

the people killed in the slums it was mostly poor youth and gangs and some of them were armed with guns, it seemed more a class issue, kenya police shot a load of them in the first days and these were the people the oppostion leader went to visit in the morgue rather then the people killed by his supporters.

I see John 'Oshea is calling for nato invasion of kenya, I havn't seen anyone else call for military intervention other then this so called humanitarian! he was saying the radio and the papers, 'where the un peckeeepers where the eu battlegroups, where natos' ??

even if he just trying to a make a point, its still idiotic and dangerous. he gets more of letters printed in the papers then anyone else. its ridiculous.

Lirange

It's getting so much coverage because Kenya has been so stable and successful relative to that region. So the developments have taken many by surprise.

ballooba

Those in the slums have the least to lose and the most to gain from a period of unrest. Change is always an opportunity for any disadvantaged group to better their lot. This is why the comfortable and powerful resist change. I saw a smiling adolescent holding a rock on the BBC website the other day wearing a Che Guevara. The picture stuck with me because he actually seemed to be enjoying the whole thing.

I think the Kikuyu community are genuinely fearful for what will happen to them under Odinga because they probably were in a privileged position under Kibaki. As much as they may claim that Kibaki was everybody's president he obviously wasn't if he needed to rig the election to hold on to power. Who knows what will happen under the ODM but I think it's clear that it was either a very close result or it was ODM's election.

lostexpectation

I doubt ODM is much of a democrat either(as much as democrat as the Bhuttos), note how the Americans are keeping relatively quiet cos their man stayed in power.

bartholomewbinn

Its all really rather sad and dreary, here we have what is supposed to be a stable (so far as any sub Saharan African country can be stable) Kenya holding a general election, there is a dispute and the tribes are at each other with machetes and bullets. Hundreds are murdered and I see on tonight’s news that the there is a real danger of a million people going short of food, with god knows how many being displaced . It’s really debatable if there is any real solid future for any sub Saharan African country. It’s just one disaster after another.

lostexpectation

they announced a death of up to 600 but most of that was in the first week it seems to have calmed, an interesting thing is that I had to go to free republic to have it pointed out that the lou opposition tribe is generally muslim and the tribe in power; christian, you can see why if the election was robbed why the US are not going mad over it like they do elsewhere. Even on free republic I couldn't find anyone calling for nato intervention though so even the freepers ain't as crazy as John O'Shea

mike65

Just reported that the President has said the deaths have topped 1000.

Mike.

lostexpectation

I thought it was the opposition guy who said that.

mike65

Oh maybe I misheard (or wrong president).

Mike.

edanto

Kibaki has hardened his stance by naming half his cabinet minutes before John Kufor (President of Ghana, AU Leader) arrived in Nairobi.

The news drove hundreds of people to the street to protest; tensions had increased earlier in the day when a government spokesman had told the Standard Newspaper that Kufor was coming for a cup of tea and that there was "nothing to be mediated".

There are also a lot of reports that people are moving their holidays from Kenya to Tanzania, the knock on effects of this violence could mean that hundreds of thousands of people are out of work in the tourist industry next season.

lostexpectation

yeah i was surprised to hear that all tourist charters flights from the uk have been cancelled this fortnight!

Oilrig

This has been waiting to happen since independence... tribes switching allegiance to parties, etc. What was the solution called? Majimboism?

Despite its "Image", Kenya has been as corrupt as the worst of them for years.

Until African Leaders develop a vision that extends beyond "today" it won't change.

Before I get slated, I've lived in many countries on that fantastic continent.

South Africa will be the next one to go down the tube is my prediction... no prizes for that.

Heartbreaking to see it, all down to lack of decent leadership,

lostexpectation

simple get rid of leaders then

ballooba

I spoke to a friend in Nairobi yesterday. He said things are quiet up his end of town but that his school is closed until the 14th at least. All the trouble is isolated in the poorer areas. He said that all this violence was planned by both sides months ahead of the election. Sickening.

lostexpectation

the kenyan police seem pretty damn vicious very quick to get out the tear gas against unarmed portestors

edanto

It's possible that fear of the police is part of the reason that the demonstrations have stopped.

nixion

edanto posted athread about kenya which is good. but some of you are replying to it from rumours you have heard. please get the facts before you can reply. it makes someone sad when you speak ill about their country,although the leaders have already smeared cow dung on her face

edanto

It's hard for us to get the facts here. One of the most reliable sources is bbc.co.uk - we don't know which Kenyan sources to trust. For example, is The Standard considered to be an objective paper or more loyal to one of the political groups?

What about the other media? Which do you trust? Is that because of your politics? What's your bias?!

The Kenyan message boards are full of contradictory accusations and no-one seems to mention the fact that the whole charade is just a smokescreen to let one gang of people keep getting rich at the expense of the country as a whole.

nixion

its very true that some media houses are biased when giving out their news.example is the kbc( kenya broadcasting co-operation) because its a government station , some media houses like citizen tv the md is a friend to the president so you dont expect something good from them. the good thing is that they dont publish newspapers. i trust nation tv (ntv) ITS A PRIVATE media house and they publish the nation newspaper.
i dont always watch ktn tv which are responsible for publishing the standard newspaper. but what i know about it is that its also private.
i trust nation with their news

edanto

A key point that was made in one of the Editorials last week (not sure which paper) was that the rich guys can just retreat to their mansions or fly away when times get heated - the average Kenyan doesn't have that option.

nixion

edanto, these leaders will always fly out when problems come our way. this shows they have no feeling for us. they even forget we are the ones who elected them in power. we the poor will always suffer. i thing the EU should suspend them from flying out of the country especially raila and kibaki they are the root cause of the situation in the country. is this something which can be done?

Tommy T

nixion wrote: »

i thing the EU should suspend them from flying out of the country especially raila and kibaki they are the root cause of the situation in the country. is this something which can be done?

I don't think so Nixion. There is a history of some African leaders taking refuge in France in the past. Hopefully it won't happen this time. I see Kofi Annan is in Kenya now doing his best to bring the parties together...

nixion

then its too bad if their travelling wont be restricted.kofi annan is not yet in the country he is to come this week.
atleast now their is calm in the country as the odm team has come with new ways of protesting this is by not consuming goods from companies which the owners are on the side of the public. like not consuming brookside milk which the owner is uhuru kenyatta. am very sure this wont work, but atleast it will bring peace