a national newspaper used a photo of mine without permission, what can i do

Paulw

Anouilh wrote: »

But people take you more seriously and give you better positions, as you are, technically, at work.

If you're on the photographic access list for an event, having a press card won't give you a better position/access. You'll have the same access as everyone else with access.

Once in, it's every man/woman for him/herself.

Anouilh

Paulw wrote: »

If you're on the photographic access list for an event, having a press card won't give you a better position/access. You'll have the same access as everyone else with access.

Once in, it's every man/woman for him/herself.

Modern life is definitely a bit of a rodeo.

Finally got a good link to the Irish Facebook Journalists Group:

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?k=100000080&id=626252055&sid=a8ad1a19867392674c2d25134037e543#/group.php?gid=4431656145

Anybody who is interested could join there and post a question about rates of pay, conditions of work and how to shine.



Journalism is a very good trade and well worth trying, even for a while.

Sometimes people think it's all drinks events and public functions but there are a lot of quiet jobs subbing and working in specialist fields like medicine, education and the art world.

brayblue24

delly wrote: »

I would take a guess, but most of those type of competitions state in the rules that you relinquish your rights over the picture and that the promoters can do with the picture what they want. If thats the case, then I don't think you'll be able to do much about it.

Yeah, I thought that might be the case so I checked their website. All they require is to sign over permission for them to display it as they see fit. They have a roadshow of these photos and that appears to be their interest in it. good point though, thanks.

ValueInIreland

Does anyone else get annoyed when some starts a thread like this then remains silent and does not update people on the outcome?

ValueInIreland

From experience:
Any papers I know of will pay a reasonable sum when Invoiced.
They normally have "Standard" rates they pay.
The rates vary hugely from €5-€25 for a small local publication to a maximun €150-ish for the Major Daily papers.
I urge a simple call to the Editor (Small papers) or the Picture Editor in the bigger papers to inform them it was your pic and enquire about the Invoice / payment procedure.
For anybody to even think about legal action (in any situation) without first talking to the "other party" is simply madness.
A Solicitor's letter / consultation will cost more than any likely payment.
One major reason that people do not get contacted when a photograph suddenly has a news value is that.... there are no contact details...
Use Water marks.
Simply marking your image with Copyright : Joe Blogs is of little use.
Unless you provide contact details a publisher has an excuse - but still liabel to pay for the picture's use of course.
Most imaging software (not all sadly) has a means of inputting a text caption and contact / copyright details. In Photoshop, open the picture, go to FILE> FILE INFO and in the Caption or Description field enter details about the picture (what you would expect to read about a photograph if published). Use the dedicated copyright fields for the appropriate information. This information is Mandatory when you send images to publications for possible publication.
Once in a while somebody will have an "exclusive" but that is very subjective and asking for €700 for a picture of a road accident for example will not get a polite reply!
Be realistic because a cheque for €70 is better than nothing!
If you are not happy with competition rules don't submit your images, especially if the prizes are small.
There was a competition in Ireland last year and the prize was a Brand new Mid - Upper range car worth about €30,000. Make your own mind up if it's worthwhile!

melekalikimaka

I'm in the NUJ, havent really seen any benifits in it yet,m 40 eroro or something since I study photography

Covey

Surely you assessed the benefits beforehand

melekalikimaka

Covey wrote: »

Surely you assessed the benefits beforehand

na the coll kinda told everyone to join no questions asked lol

Anouilh

ValueInIreland wrote: »

Does anyone else get annoyed when some starts a thread like this then remains silent and does not update people on the outcome?

No.


A few years ago my car was struck by a lorry and, miraculously, we survived.

If I had not returned to posting on the net, due to unforseen circumstances, would people imagine I was sulking or not a good team player?

There is always the possibility that the person who started this thread is a news-hungry hack and is, at this very moment, writing up the deranged ramblings of a bunch of media-obsessed photogs living somewhere in Ireland...

democrates

ValueInIreland wrote: »

For anybody to even think about legal action (in any situation) without first talking to the "other party" is simply madness.

+1, if you have a legitimate grievance and your work is liked, you've two cards to play. Why burn bridges by escalating conflict when the oppertunity is there to leverage this not just for payment but potentially future work.

Getting a solicitor involved forces them to deal with you on that level and might get some minimum wage hack the sack, whereas a polite but firm call gives them a chance to resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction with minimum fuss.

I tend to look for the face-saving win-win, there are exceptions and the last time I went in guns blazing was over a €10k deposit with a property developer, glad I did as they've since vanished.

DeVore

If you (or for example, we, here) ever so much as print a photocopy of a page of theirs we get all sorts of nasty emails and letters. Its pure hyporisy. If they ever do it to me I will nail to them a wall. Right to the freakin' wall. Small Claims Court is your only man.

DeV.

pixbyjohn

Paulw wrote: »

I totally disagree. We (photographers) should have every right to share our photos online, without people (and papers) stealing out images. What they are doing is illegal. Pure and simple.

You could use the same logic for shop lifters - don't put goods on display if you don't want people to rob them.

Excellent logic. I fully agree

democrates

DeVore wrote: »

If you (or for example, we, here) ever so much as print a photocopy of a page of theirs we get all sorts of nasty emails and letters. Its pure hyporisy. If they ever do it to me I will nail to them a wall. Right to the freakin' wall. Small Claims Court is your only man.

DeV.

Reminds me of the old saying "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate". I wasn't aware of the history with boards.ie, that brings an element of community solidarity into the equation.

AnCatDubh

ValueInIreland wrote: »

Does anyone else get annoyed when some starts a thread like this then remains silent and does not update people on the outcome?

Like many of the forums the photography forum is full of one post wonders, some stay and contribute more. Some don't. Some return after a period. I suspect with this thread, the OP got enough out of the first couple of responses to satisfy the query he had yet the forum has seen fit to discuss and debate further. You sometimes see 'older' threads being dragged up with additional comment but most go to the happy retirement home of the search function.

DutchGuy

Just a quick word of warning about legal action in cases like this. The small claims court has been mentioned in this thread, but it has no jurisdiction over cases like this as the claimant is not a consumer in this case. Even though you're not registered as a business you are seeking payment for a service provided to a company and therefore you're bringing a case in a business capacity. Threatening to take a newspaper to the small claims court over this is unlikely to result in anything positive as they'll be well aware of the jurisdiction of the small claims court themselves.

If on the other hand you send them invoice they'll probably pay it as they know they're in the wrong and will not want to face the legal fees applicable if solicitors have to get involved.

Anouilh

There is the tried and tested method of just talking to people and sorting things out amicably.

There is one possible advantage in having one's work posted in a public newspaper. It amounts to free advertising and, if the editors like it so much, they may be prepared to pay for commissioned work on an ongoing basis.

monument

You all might want to know that the Press Ombudsman has said his office would look at cases of plagiarism (the process is to complain to the newspaper first and if you are not satisfied than contact the Ombudsman)...

http://www.blurredkeys.com/2008/08/independent-gro.html

The Ombudsman's website is http://www.pressombudsman.ie/

DeVore

democrates wrote: »

Reminds me of the old saying "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate". I wasn't aware of the history with boards.ie, that brings an element of community solidarity into the equation.

I have lots of friends and lot of enemies.



All of them for life.


DeV.

abelard

AS a matter of interest, what is the going rate for photos?

I saw a NUJ rate card somewhere recently, and I'm almost sure that the prices quoted there were considerably higher than the €50-75 suggested above.

Is there a different rate system for newspapers as opposed to other types of private publication (like magazines)? I might be confusing the two....

Paulw

Many papers have their own standard rates. Each paper/group will differ. Magazines would be very different again, depending on distribution, etc.

There is no quick/easy answer.

NUJ rates, in general, would be higher, since they're union agreed rates.

democrates

DeVore wrote: »

I have lots of friends and lot of enemies.



All of them for life.


DeV.

Well bff's are a blessing, and at least blood feuds accross generations are the exception in this country - unless the V in your username is for Vendetta

Marcus

I'm always fascinated that people suggest that photographers whose images have been used in publications without their permission should invoice the "going rate"... This just encourages the whole thing.

If I get on the Luas without a ticket and I'm caught, the repercussions are (and I've no idea what the fine is) much higher than simply paying the going rate fare of €1.50 for the journey.

Surely the advice should be to invoice 10x the going rate in cases like this. This would surely send a message that this is unacceptable and editors should think twice about whether the images they are using have been paid for.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

brayblue24 wrote: »

Rant over so what next? Solicitor or Small Claims Court?

I believe the small claims court is only for consumer issues

DotOrg

if they took a photo off flickr and used it then they are not going to court as business vs business but instead as joe public versus business which is exactly what the court is for.

But they would then have to be suing them for damages rather than for payment for photo use

brayblue24

Just by way of update. I rang this crowd twice before Christmas and followed that with an email to no success. Let it run over Christmas and posted them a letter yesterday including an invoice, credit in a future issue and information as to where they located the image.

brayblue24

BUMP.. More help needed. I followed the advice of an earlier poster and complained to the Press Ombudsman who, in fariness to them replied immediately to say the matter was to be looked at and replied again within 24 hours to say that the paper concerned has not signed up to their charter so there is nothing they can do.

Next question folks..What now? All suggestions welcomed.

sheesh

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE


this probably describes how you feel. "you go to the store and buy it..... "

democrates

brayblue24 wrote: »

BUMP.. More help needed. I followed the advice of an earlier poster and complained to the Press Ombudsman who, in fariness to them replied immediately to say the matter was to be looked at and replied again within 24 hours to say that the paper concerned has not signed up to their charter so there is nothing they can do.

Next question folks..What now? All suggestions welcomed.

I'm staggered. We set up a press ombudsman and you'd think the goal is to eliminate cowboy activity, but the standards are voluntary so any outfit can opt to ignore it and be a cowboy operation. That makes no sense I'm obviously missing something.

Covey

democrates wrote: »

I'm staggered. We set up a press ombudsman and you'd think the goal is to eliminate cowboy activity, but the standards are voluntary so any outfit can opt to ignore it and be a cowboy operation. That makes no sense I'm obviously missing something.

Ditto, unbelievable and another waste of public money.

Sleepy

Small claims court time tbh.

CabanSail

I would have thought that an Ombudsmen would not require companies to sign up to a voluntary code to enforce the law. The way I see it is that they have done something illegal as they have stolen your image. You are being reasonable & just asking for a fee for the use of that image.

I would try to speak to someone else at the Ombudsmen Office in case there was a misunderstanding.

CabanSail

From http://www.pressombudsman.ie

With the establishment of the Press Council of Ireland and the Office of the Press Ombudsman on January 1, 2008 everybody in Ireland now has access to an independent press complaints mechanism that is quick, fair and free. This is one of the most positive developments in the history of Ireland’s newspapers and periodicals.

The new complaints mechanism is designed to ensure that the freedom of the press is never abused, and that the public interest is always served. These are the main principles of independent press regulation all around the world.

The objectives of the Press Council and Press Ombudsman are:

to provide the public with an independent forum for resolving complaints about the press
to resolve all complaints quickly, fairly and free of charge
to maintain the highest standards of Irish journalism and journalistic ethics
to defend the freedom of the press and the freedom of the public to be informed

Their Charter doesn't mention anything about it being Volunatary. The bit I put in bold says ALL COMPLAINTS.

In the Code of Practice;

3.2 Publications shall not obtain information, photographs or other material through misrepresentation or subterfuge, unless justified by the public interest.

Covey

I suggest you write to the Ombudsman, that will focus the mind a bit better.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Sleepy wrote: »

Small claims court time tbh.

You're joking?

Explain how exactly it would fall under the jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court.

coylemj

democrates wrote: »

I'm staggered. We set up a press ombudsman and you'd think the goal is to eliminate cowboy activity, but the standards are voluntary so any outfit can opt to ignore it and be a cowboy operation. That makes no sense I'm obviously missing something.

You're not missing anything, the Press Ombudsman is a toothless tiger, a complete waste of time and money just like the equivalent body in the UK. All they can do is extract an apology from the offending newspaper. Without the ability to levy hefty monetary fines it is a total waste of time.

brayblue24

Thanks to the help received in a private PM from a member here (who shall remain nameless at his own request-thanks, you know who you are!) I have finally got around to sending this publication another letter containing some new information. Will post updates when I can

brayblue24

Figured 2 months is long enough to wait for a reply so I guess they are not going to bother so based the advice above (and some copying and pasting of same) I have written to the press ombudsman. I have asked them again to look at the matter and also requested that if they still claim to have no jursidiction can they suggest an alternative solution to me.

brayblue24

Wrote to the the Press Ombudsman and they confirmed in writing that they are powerless to deal with this publication as they have not signed up to their charter. What a load of complete c**p.

Do all Gardai have to sign up to their ombudsman? Absolutely, so why is this any different. Another crass waste of public money allowng cowboy operators act with immunity.

Paulw

Your next step, unfortunately, might be to either file a case in the small claims court, or else speak to a copyright solicitor.

brayblue24

Yeah, looks like it. Can't believe the predicament though. What's the point of a selective ombudsman?

Covey

You can't claim in the small claims court for a debt.I'd forget the copyright aspect as well and file for simple not payment of a debt.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Covey wrote: »

You can't claim in the small claims court for a debt.I'd forget the copyright aspect as well and file for simple not payment of a debt.

I don't know if this is possible. There was no agreement or contract so thus far no debt exists.

Covey

Yep, you may be right there.

It was only a suggestion as it's easy and relatively inexpensive. Filing for breach of copyright on the other hand, may well go beyond the district court and thus become both expensive and a loss making exercise.

KylieWyley

I'm not sure it would go beyond the district court, it should be fairly easily proven and they can handle claims up €6,350.. I'm sure the image, however great, is not said to be worth that amount.

Chances are, if you issue a subponea to the papers, the will cave and pay you the standard rate for want of avoiding the inconvenience of legal proceedings. If they prove to be stubborn, and assuming you are 100% certain it is your image and not just a similar one, you will definitely succeed, and the papers will have to pay for your legal fees. I wouldn't think Courts would look too favourably on wealthy publishers infringing on the rights of independent artists.

Go for it.

KylieWyley

The Small Claims Court is for consumer disputes only. e.g. non-payment of debts, supply of faulty goods. So District Court is the way to go. (if all non-legal solutions have been exhausted... e.g. contacting them and requesting a fee for use of your copyrighted work)

SBPhoto

To join the NUJ 70% of your gross earnings must come from newspaper work and you must have receipts to show your earnings on application. you must also have a proposer and a seconder {NUJ Members} you cannot be working in another job or a member of another union. Also taken into account is other NUJ Members already working in your area

jank

Name and shame the newspaper...

AnCatDubh

jank wrote: »

Name and shame the newspaper...

If here - being extremely careful about how you might expose boards.ie to any subsequent litigation in light of the general comment which has gone before and possible comment that might ensue.

We've had this before and it was pulled for this reason.

I believe that particular episode had a happy ending for the photographer. The approach there was to engage a discussion with (and I can't believe i'm typing this) - the Joe Duffy show, and then let that paper editor know that it is being scheduled for later in the week. Result AFAIK was that it was settled at the 11th hour and didn't go on the show.

Best to discuss with any of the moderators before you'd do such a thing such that you wouldn't end up with an infraction or worse incur an unnecessary holiday from the forum. Safe than sorry.

rockbeer

Sadly (and laughably) the ombudsman isn't there to intervene in disputes between publications and contributors. The existence of the PCI is all about matters of journalistic content, not copyright issues, so I think that avenue will be a total waste of time.

None of which in any way excuses the farcical situation of a toothless regulator 'overseeing' a voluntary code of practice. Welcome to the noughties.

Rented Mule

ValueInIreland wrote: »

Does anyone else get annoyed when some starts a thread like this then remains silent and does not update people on the outcome?

I just read through the entire thread thinking the exact same thing.