Rent Relief

pbug21

Hi,

My landlord lives in France and me and my two flatmates currently pay €733 each a month into her a/c. I am wondering what is the story with rent relief. It seems to be simple enough to do if your landlord lives in Ireland, but it says something on the form about deducting tax if your landlord lives abroad. Can anyone explain how this works to me as it is really confusing to me. How much money can I expect to get back from rent relief?

Cheers...;)

zAbbo

I think you get about 330 per year.

Last time I applied, I just filled in the details, with no rent slips or anything, and got the money shortly after.

traceybere

once you have your landlord PPS number there shouldn't be a problem - don't think you will get €330 think its a bit less and you can back claim

Orlee

I think it went up this year though - used to be 270 now it's 360 afaik!!!

Victor

Two things.

(1) Ask your landlord for their PPS number and fill in a form RENT1 and send it to the Revenue.

(2) As your landlord appears to live outside Ireland, you have a legal obligation to withhold tax and pass it directly to the Revenue. Otherwise you may end up liable for your landlords tax responsibilities. Get it explained to you properly and don't let the landlord fudge it.

The_Conductor

As Victor said- be very careful- as you are supposed to collecting witholding tax on behalf of your landlord and forwarding this directly to the Revenue Commissioners on their behalf. Its an added complication when your landlord is not tax resident in this country. From your landlords perspective- they have a tax liability in both Ireland and France, which is rather nasty (the French tax is even worse than the Irish one, post the 2004 reforms- which is why most French residents have sold their overseas property).

antoinolachtnai

Yup, you are liable for paying your landlord's tax. If it is unpaid, he has recourse to you.

If you pay via an agent, then this issue does not arise. It is up to the agent to submit.

soma

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Yup, you are liable for paying your landlord's tax. If it is unpaid, he has recourse to you.

If you pay via an agent, then this issue does not arise. It is up to the agent to submit.

I have to say that when I found this out, I was pretty damn unimpressed.

I was just about to apply for rent relief for the past two years. I've never applied before, so it was my 1st time seeing the form, and that was when I learned about my apparent obligation to withhold 20% of my monthly rent.

Here's what infuriates me about this scenario (I am stunned that I'm now technically liable for someone else Tax bill):

- The house I was renting would be a house in a fairly sought after area, Ranelagh. Landlord is signed-up to PRTB.
- Had I said to the landlord: Oh by the way, I know rent is €X/month, but I'm actually only going to be depositing €X-20%, do you seriously think I would have gotten the house? Or would the Landlord have simply offered it to someone 'less troublesome' in their eyes..?

Does anyone here actually withhold rent..?

The_Conductor

I imagine there are incredibly few people who have non-resident landlords- feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Mr. Incognito

In practice the landlords PPS no is not required. Revenue just run them through. I'd just submit the Rent 1 with your address on it and don't worry about the w/h tax issue.

soma

SetantaL wrote: »

In practice the landlords PPS no is not required. Revenue just run them through. I'd just submit the Rent 1 with your address on it and don't worry about the w/h tax issue.

Has anyone ever heard of a tenant actually being held liable for a non-res landlord's tax..?

Victor

I only know of one case that went to court, in the early days and the judge wasn't happy that the average tenant could be aware of the requirement and failed to convict. I don't think the same thing would happen 10+ years later.

SarahMc

soma wrote: »

The house I was renting would be a house in a fairly sought after area, Ranelagh. Landlord is signed-up to PRTB.

I think it is fairly safe to assume if your landlord is signed up to PRTB, they are also tax compliant, and you can claim your rent relief as normal.

The_Conductor

SarahMc wrote: »

I think it is fairly safe to assume if your landlord is signed up to PRTB, they are also tax compliant, and you can claim your rent relief as normal.

Its not a valid assumption.

What needs to be ascertained- is the OP paying the landlord directly or via an agent.

If the landlord is not being paid directly- the tax obligations associated with their being non-resident are passed onto their agent (who they have to nominate) whose duty it is to ensure their compliance with the Irish tax regime. The tenant simply pays their rent to the agent- and has no other dealings in the matter.

If, on the other hand, the landlord is non-resident and being paid directly by the tenant, they legally have to register the tenancy with the PRTB. The tax arrangements for non-resident landlords are that the tenant withold tax at the marginal rate (20%) and return it to the Revenue Commissioners.

The Landlord as a totally seperate transaction makes an annual tax return of his/her own to the Revenue Commissioners and any allowable expenses are deducted from the gross rent, prior to determination of the tax due, which in turn is offset against the tax already paid which the tenant is legally obliged to collect on behalf of the Revenue Commissioners (20% of the gross rent).

The tenant is also legally obliged to forward a declaration to the landlord that the 20% rent has been deducted and accounted for by the Revenue Commissioners (its known as a Form R185 return) which the landlord will include with their tax return when they are making it. (link here)

The fact that the tenancy is registered, is only one step in the equation.

This is all detailed on the Revenue Commissioner's website: link here

The tenant (the OP) is perfectly entitled to claim their rent-relief- but they should be made 100% aware that they have a legal liability towards the Revenue Commissioners for 20% of the gross rent. If they have not made allowances for an extra 20% over what they are paying into the Landlords bank account- they should do so immediately.

Its an unfortunate situation for the OP, compounded by the rarety of non-resident landlords, so its not a situation that the PRTB would regularly come across- but it would be a logical first step to contact them for advice on how to approach this.

Unfortunately though- the OP and his/her housemates should make arrangements for a rather unexpected revenue bill, which will eventually catch up on them (Revenue will chase it if/when the Landlord makes their tax return.

antoinolachtnai

If the landlord has made proper tax returns, there won't be a problem.

One interesting possibility would be to withhold rent going forward to an amount equal to 20 percent of the rent paid to date and submit it to the revenue.

There is no real reason for the OP to end up out of pocket.

I would talk to the landlord about this.

daveco23

How far back can you claim rent relief for?
I rented for all of 2004-2005 and bought a house afterwards. Can I still claim for the yearfs I was renting?

Victor

Strictly speaking 4 years, but they may allow more.

bobbysands81

I claimed rent relief a couple of years ago for the previous three years. I had no PPN for my landlord, nor their address and I still got it with just their name.

catussa

You can also put in a wrong PPS no...I just invented one for my previous landlord and got the cheque today!!!

useful_contacts

catussa wrote: »

You can also put in a wrong PPS no...I just invented one for my previous landlord and got the cheque today!!!

How long did yours take?

Victor

catussa wrote: »

You can also put in a wrong PPS no...I just invented one for my previous landlord and got the cheque today!!!

Congratulations, you've just made a false return to the Revenue Commissioners.

Kiith

Sorry to hijack the thread, but i'm going to claim rent relief for the first time soon, and was wondering something. The last two years are ok, but its going to be a bit hard to get the PPS number from my landlord for the last two years of college, as he died last year. Would i still just be able to put in his name, without the PPS number?

The_Conductor

Kiith wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but i'm going to claim rent relief for the first time soon, and was wondering something. The last two years are ok, but its going to be a bit hard to get the PPS number from my landlord for the last two years of college, as he died last year. Would i still just be able to put in his name, without the PPS number?

You don't need his PPS number at all- all you need is the address of the property......

Ps- its a tax relief- you have to have had paid tax on taxable income- in order to claim the relief- if you were a student you may not have done so.

Kind regards,

SMcCarrick

Kiith

smccarrick wrote: »

You don't need his PPS number at all- all you need is the address of the property......

Ps- its a tax relief- you have to have had paid tax on taxable income- in order to claim the relief- if you were a student you may not have done so.

Kind regards,

SMcCarrick

Ah, thats a good point. Fairly sure i never paid any tax on my student accomodation. Also, do you need to wait till the end of the current year to claim? I mean can i claim for whatever i've paid in 2009 now, or do i have to wait till 2010?

The_Conductor

Kiith wrote: »

Ah, thats a good point. Fairly sure i never paid any tax on my student accomodation. Also, do you need to wait till the end of the current year to claim? I mean can i claim for whatever i've paid in 2009 now, or do i have to wait till 2010?

You can't claim 2009 until the end of the 2009 tax year (which coincidentally is now the same as the calendar year). You can claim back 4 years of arrears right away however.

Ste.phen

smccarrick wrote: »

You can't claim 2009 until the end of the 2009 tax year (which coincidentally is now the same as the calendar year). You can claim back 4 years of arrears right away however.

When I first applied, I did so mid-year and they sent out an updated Form 12 (or Form 12 A? Can't remember) to my employer.
I got a PAYE refund in my next payslip.
So if the OP is currently working and paying tax, they can get the benefit of the relief for 2009 now.

The_Conductor

Ste.phen wrote: »

When I first applied, I did so mid-year and they sent out an updated Form 12 (or Form 12 A? Can't remember) to my employer.
I got a PAYE refund in my next payslip.
So if the OP is currently working and paying tax, they can get the benefit of the relief for 2009 now.

Ahh- amended tax credits.....
Fair enough.

Cheers Stephen,

S.