Lexus IS220 D or BMW 320 D ?

finbarrk

I am intrested in importing one of these from England after July, the Lexus is about £2,000 cheaper but the VRT will be less on the BMW. They are both 2007 cars. I wonder which would be the better buy?

AntiVirus

What ever one you want! :rolleyes:

unkel

finbarrk wrote: »

the VRT will be less on the BMW

And so will the tax. The VRT will be 16% on the open market selling price of the BMW (131g/km CO2) - provided you buy the newer '07 models with Efficient Dynamics - and 24% on the Lexus (168g/km CO2)

The annual motor tax will be:

BMW: €150
Lexus: €430

niceirishfella

i'd go for the BM.
it'll have a stronger resale esp with that attractive road tax rate.

finbarrk

Yeah, the low road tax should help resale alright.

pburns

Even I, who am a little anti-German (car-wise I mean) would go for the 320d without hesitation. The BMW has a gem of an engine. I don't think the 2.2 Toyota unit is in the same class - fine for an Avensis, not quite refined enough for a Lexus.

Lexus is probably better-looking but both cars need a decent spec and nice metalic colour to look good.

And my mantra for any decent saloon car - from the Mondeo to the new Mazda 6 to BMW, Lexus, Audi:
'NEEDS BIG WHEELS!'

Meister

finbarrk wrote: »

I am intrested in importing one of these from England after July, the Lexus is about £2,000 cheaper but the VRT will be less on the BMW. They are both 2007 cars. I wonder which would be the better buy?

Was into a Lexus dealer and they told me that that "Lexus" told them there would be a lower emission model, coming down the line.

Alarmingly he also told me that the post July models will be completly stipped down of all "goodies", and they will be extras...to me thats either new vrt rip off or they are just getting the base price to match the BMW @16% vrt.

Hope this helps

MCMLXXXIII

BMW.

Personally, I like the car better, and I like the company better.

Especially if you plan on keeping it for a while...the lower VRT/Motor Tax should pay off the import fees in a year. Then once that is paid, the resale value would be better because 1. it has lower taxes, and 2. people would be excited that they are getting a car that is usually expensive to import.

Dakota

320D every time, as for bigger wheels if you go bigger than 17 inch then be prepared for trouble on Irish roads, even on BMW genuine rims.

kluivert

Bigger wheels means increase infuel consumption, thus increase in Co2.

I would go for the BM as well. What car done a depreciation time line on Merch BM and Lexus, Merc was best BM second, Lexus 3rd even though the Lexus was cheaper.

E92

The Lexus is such a CO2 belcher that it is in the same VRT band as the BMW 325i with EfficientDynamics, and that has a 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol(both are 24% VRT and €430 road tax)!

OP you could also have a 325d, that is in the 20% VRT category(EfficientDynamics models only of course!) so you could have a 3.0 diesel for only €290 road tax per year and 20% VRT!

The 320d does 128 g/km anyway, and that's €150 to tax and 16% VRT(again this is for EfficientDynamics models only)!

The UK got EfficientDynamics back in September IIRC, so there should be EfficientDynamics models available over there registered in 2007.

finbarrk

How will I know if the BMW has got those efficientdynamics?

O7Pat

unkel wrote: »

And so will the tax. The VRT will be 16% on the open market selling price of the BMW (131g/km CO2) - provided you buy the newer '07 models with Efficient Dynamics - and 24% on the Lexus (168g/km CO2)

The annual motor tax will be:

BMW: €150
Lexus: €430

The efficient dynamics models only got here bout October, "think" they were only in the UK a few weeks before that. So be careful - I assume the rules on the car needing to be over 6 months and 6,000 kilmoters still apllies? *

The pre efficient dynamics models had a 153g/km co2 so in the 20% vrt category.

*Edit - sorry reread and see u are not bringing in till after July so shouldn't be a problem. Apologies. Will be important for anyone is this category though to find out exactly when the efficient dynamics came out

oilsheik

Lexus has to be serviced every 10k miles they dont have long life or condition based service such as BMW. BMW engine is more refined Lexus 220d diesel even noiser than the VAG PD engine.

Lex Luthor

of all the reviews I've read about these 2, the BM comes out top every time.

The Lexus engine/gear box combination is supposed to be terrible

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

And so will the tax. The VRT will be 16% on the open market selling price of the BMW (131g/km CO2) - provided you buy the newer '07 models with Efficient Dynamics - and 24% on the Lexus (168g/km CO2)

The annual motor tax will be:

BMW: €150
Lexus: €430

Will you quote the same figures for a 320D without Efficient Dynamics? I haven't seen one and am a bit skeptical about their widespread availability... If the OP want a 320D he may have to settle for one without ED.

BTW, having been in both the IS220 is a more upmarket place to be. It's like being in a 5-star hotel with Swiss watches for dials and an incredible sound system..

Oilrig

I'd go for the BMW, too many question marks over the Lexus re cost of servicing, parts availability, eco issues, etc.

On a personal level I don't like its styling and having driven one its just not at the races as far as a drivers car goes.

But, it should be Toyota like in reliability.

Take yer pick.

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

Will you quote the same figures for a 320D without Efficient Dynamics? I haven't seen one and am a bit skeptical about their widespread availability...

I believe the "old" figures are still on the bmw.ie website

Just to clarify: Efficient Dynamics is not an optional extra. Efficient Dynamics is standard for all affected new BMWs since about last September or so. I'm not sure about the exact details, but E92 will fill you in

E92

Oilrig wrote: »

But, it should be Toyota like in reliability.

Take yer pick.

Which considering the massive cost cutting plan Toyota is currently embarking on, including increasing the throughput of cars in the same size factory(now you don't need to be a genius to figure out that if you make more of the same thing in the same space in the same period of time, then something has got to give), and using cheaper materials for the manufacturing of their cars, is not something that can be boasted about in the future I suspect!

And a 320d without EfficientDynamics pollutes 153 g/km i.e. 20% VRT and €290 tax, so the Beamer is cheaper either way. Anything after September 07 should have ED(BMW UK's pricelist says September 07, and all the data there is for ED, so I presume that that is when ED was made standard), its not an optional extra, and anything before then would not have it.

For info on EfficientDynamics, click here.

O7Pat

Finbarrk in addition to this might be worthwhile looking at the sticky on vrt calculations and in particular e92's* comments on the possibilities re 323, 325, coupe, m models etc.

I mention this in response to your question as to which is the best buy - even if you are not tempted by a coupe or m model, this may affect the value of your import to sell on in a few years time and so may effect the amount you are willing to pay in the UK in July. ie we are looking at uk models now and comparing the to irish prices but irish prices are going to change.

Hope this makes sense - if you buy an 07 model in the UK in July and sell on in say 3 yrs time other cars on the market on that time will be post July 08 Irish models that may have a higher than current spec and should, hopefully, have been bought new for a lower price than now. (So for my money defo worth buying the post Sept 07 efficient dynamics model to give it an edge)

It's going to be very difficult to predict though so if your interested in the car I'd say go for it

*e92 if I got time (or if anybody else fancy it) would it be ok to pull together all the bmw posts from that sticky and put them together in a thread like this one ?? EDIT - just read the sticky again and see the aim i for a spreadsheet so that should do the same job. Thanks e92 for all the info.

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

I believe the "old" figures are still on the bmw.ie website

Just to clarify: Efficient Dynamics is not an optional extra. Efficient Dynamics is standard for all affected new BMWs since about last September or so. I'm not sure about the exact details, but E92 will fill you in

The old figures on the BMW website don't include July 1st tax rates, as you have quoted.

ED is not an optional extra, and apparently models with it have been leaving the factory since November.

BUT, how many are "in the channel" (no pun intended re that ferry than sank)? This is what I mean. No use quoting ED figures if the OP can't buy an ED model.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Which considering the massive cost cutting plan Toyota is currently embarking on, including increasing the throughput of cars in the same size factory(now you don't need to be a genius to figure out that if you make more of the same thing in the same space in the same period of time, then something has got to give),

Over simplistic.

Toyota got themselves in hot water a couple of years back when they stated that workers in their French factory were able to produce 30% more cars than workers in their English factory, and implied English workers were lazy.

Toyota are masters of production.. ask anyone who has studied for an MBA or related discipline. And look at all the books written about their system.

finbarrk

I don't still know , but I saw both of them, 07s at the races in Mallow today and the Lexus looks the sexier car.

MCMLXXXIII

finbarrk wrote: »

I don't still know , but I saw both of them, 07s at the races in Mallow today and the Lexus looks the sexier car.

Then get the Lexus...and leave the BMW for me ;-)

74merc

I was thinking of leasing an IS220D so did a bit of research. There seem to be quite a few problems with them: Fuel consumption is poor; Gear ratios are too high (except for the Sport model which has a lower final drive ratio); Engines have needed to be remapped to smooth transmission; Available only with a manual gearbox; rearview mirror vibrations. All owners recommend an IS250/auto combination every time. I probably would have considered one all the same until I looked at one in the showroom and found the boot and back seat to be too small.

River King

Hi

I am looking at importing a 2005 e46 320d sport post july 1st. I know the C02 emmissions on this car are 153 g/km putting it into the 20% vrt band.

If the car has 18" alloys i think will this raise the OMSP for the vrt calculation as the 17" rims are standard.

What i am wondering is will there also be a penalty put on the CO2 emmissions to account for the bigger rims, thus putting me into the next vrt band at 156 g/km?

E92

River King wrote: »

Hi

I am looking at importing a 2005 e46 320d sport post july 1st. I know the C02 emmissions on this car are 153 g/km putting it into the 20% vrt band.

If the car has 18" alloys i think will this raise the OMSP for the vrt calculation as the 17" rims are standard.

What i am wondering is will there also be a penalty put on the CO2 emmissions to account for the bigger rims, thus putting me into the next vrt band at 156 g/km?

If bigger wheels cause the car to go into a higher VRT category then yes you will have to pay the higher VRT rate, and the accompanying higher road tax bill you will face every year too!

chris85

JHMEG wrote: »

Over simplistic.

Toyota got themselves in hot water a couple of years back when they stated that workers in their French factory were able to produce 30% more cars than workers in their English factory, and implied English workers were lazy.

Toyota are masters of production.. ask anyone who has studied for an MBA or related discipline. And look at all the books written about their system.

Yeah I would think that many manufacturing process lines would not be as efficient unless Toyota shared their philosophy and methods of manufacturing.

Back on topic, would like the Lexus but the VRT and road tax are the real bonuses for the 320D.

River King

E92 wrote: »

If bigger wheels cause the car to go into a higher VRT category then yes you will have to pay the higher VRT rate, and the accompanying higher road tax bill you will face every year too!

Yeah i realise that if it does go into the higher rate that i will have a higher vrt bill and yearly road tax.
What i am wondering is does anyone know if the Revenue will decide 18" wheels raises a cars C02 emissions?

E92

River King wrote: »

Yeah i realise that if it does go into the higher rate that i will have a higher vrt bill and yearly road tax.
What i am wondering is does anyone know if the Revenue will decide 18" wheels raises a cars C02 emissions?

All cars since 2001 have a Certificate of Conformity, and this is where Revenue will be able to get their CO2 data from, so if under the EU tests they found that bigger wheels increase the CO2 figure then Revenue will make use of this fact when it comes to VRTing the car. BMW will be able to tell you if 18 inch wheels increase the 3 series' CO2.

TomMc

Don't rule out this new baby too when it arrives - Hopefully some people will appreciate the engineering and not just settle for the default choice (a BMW) most of the time.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Subaru-Legacy-2.0-TD/230393