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Obama - chances he'll be assassinated?

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    #62
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    It's gonna happen lads!
    Secret Service lapse at Obama event criticised
    watch listen Friday, 22 February 2008 22:17

    An apparent order by the US Secret Service to stop screening for weapons before a Dallas, Texas rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has been criticised by local police.

    The Star-Telegram, a leading Dallas newspaper, reports that the order to put down the metal detectors and stop checking purses and bags came as a surprise to several Dallas police officers.

    The deputy police chief says he was concerned, but added the people seemed to be a 'friendly crowd.'
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    The Secret Service did not return a call from the Star-Telegram seeking comment.

    Verbal Texas shootout

    Democratic contenders Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton clashed sharply in a debate in Austin, Texas, last night in the US primary race.

    The latest opinion poll shows both candidates in a tie in the Lone Star State, ahead of its crucial primary on 4 March.

    Last night's debate was pitched as a crucial opportunity for Senator Clinton to regain momentum in a campaign which has seen her lose 11 straight primaries and caucuses since Super Tuesday to Mr Obama.

    In an evenly matched and substantive debate, both candidates staked out their differences on healthcare and foreign policy.

    However the sharp rhetoric that has recently characterised the candidates' campaign speeches did make its way into the debate.

    Referring to controversy about a speech in which Senator Obama liberally borrowed lines from another politician, Senator Clinton received boos from the audience after she said: 'That's not change you can believe in; that's change you can Xerox.'

    But the debate did end with a warm handshake between both candidates.

    Meanwhile an ABC News opinion poll for the state of Texas out today shows the race evenly tied.

    In Ohio, the same poll shows Senator Clinton with a narrow lead of seven points.

    Story from RTÉ News:
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0222/uselection.html


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    #63
    davej
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    The mainstream media are now starting to talk about this.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23330293/
    DALLAS - There is a hushed worry on the minds of many supporters of Senator Barack Obama , echoing in conversations from state to state, rally to rally: Will he be safe?

    davej


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    #64
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Really shows you what a great country America is when a politician has a good chance of being shot dead because he is different from the norm.


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    #65
    davej
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4IkXHZRAr0


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    #66
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    A bible basher at an NRA confrence jokes about an assasination attempt on possibly the first black president. There has to be a punchline there somewhere.


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    #67
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I got the joke, but there's little doubt it was undiplomatic at best, and, frankly, only slightly funny.

    It wasn't a dig at the black candidate, it was a dig at the most anti-gun Presidential candidate the US has ever seen, spoken at what is one of the most pro-gun gatherings the US ever has short of the Knob Creek shoot. Racism and religion had nothing to do with it.

    NTM


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    #68
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Really shows you what a great country America is when a politician has a good chance of being shot dead because he is different from the norm.
    Didn't know that Obama was related to the Kennedy's...;)


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    #69
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    I hope that Obama gets the nomination. Its shocking to see that many American states are so polarized still against race. Imagine voting for the opposite party come an election just because the candidate representing your party is black? Thats what many in Kentucky claim they will do at the Presidential election if Obama is the Democrat candidate. He will be a breath of fresh air for better or worse IMO. McCain is showing his age and Clinton looks it.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Someone taking bets? Anyone opened a book on this yet?

    I think it's as likely as someone assassinating Bill Cosby tbh.


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    #71
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I hope that Obama gets the nomination. Its shocking to see that many American states are so polarized still against race. Imagine voting for the opposite party come an election just because the candidate representing your party is black? Thats what many in Kentucky claim they will do at the Presidential election if Obama is the Democrat candidate. He will be a breath of fresh air for better or worse IMO. McCain is showing his age and Clinton looks it.

    The problem with that line of thinking is that there are at least three assumptions you can take out of it.

    1) That those who vote for the white person instead of the black person are morally inferior to those that voted for the black person over the white one. You just need to take a look at the figures coming out of the large-black-population States to note that there is a bit of 'pot, meet kettle' going on there.

    2) That everyone who voted in the KY primary intends to vote D regardless. Generally speaking, only half of a party's membership nationwide are 'party line voters.' Add in the cross-voters or independents taking part because there is no Republican contest, and it further dilutes the numbers.

    3) That Kentucky Democrats, who, from looking around me, like their guns and pick-up trucks as much as the next guy, may not find the policies or values of a moderate Republican from a rural State to be closer to their own than a pretty hard-left Democrat from the city, even if a fairly-left Democrat from a rural State was their primary choice. There's also quite a strong military contingent and resultant liking for veterans around these parts, which would sway votes in McCain's direction.

    NTM


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    #72
    Lirange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The problem with that line of thinking is that there are at least three assumptions you can take out of it.

    1) That those who vote for the white person instead of the black person are morally inferior to those that voted for the black person over the white one. You just need to take a look at the figures coming out of the large-black-population States to note that there is a bit of 'pot, meet kettle' going on there.
    Yes the same black constituency that has voted for white Democrats by similar lopsided margins. In contrast, it is undeniably racist if someone will not vote for a candidate simply based on race under any circumstances. There is a big moral difference there.

    You cannot ignore that in some sections of America a certain number of whites will simply not vote for a black president. Period. It wouldn't matter to them if it was Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell. They just don't want a black man in the White House.

    Manic Moran wrote: »
    That Kentucky Democrats, who, from looking around me, like their guns and pick-up trucks as much as the next guy, may not find the policies or values of a moderate Republican from a rural State to be closer to their own than a pretty hard-left Democrat from the city, even if a fairly-left Democrat from a rural State was their primary choice.
    Fairly left Democrat from a rural state? Who would this be? The Senator from New York (city) that grew up in the Illinois suburbs and still retains a strong Chicago accent?

    On the issues Obama and Hillary are nearly identical across the board. Their Senate votes are practically in lock-step with each other and their policy proposals on most issues don't differ very much. They've both acknowledged that and so Hillary has played up the experience and Obama has played the vision/change themes.

    Other parts of the country where gun rights are strong have shown much less "reluctance" in supporting Obama. The mountain West and upper Midwest don't seem to share the same "reservations" as the voters of Appalachia. A state like Wisconsin has a large working class pro gun rights white constituency. Obama decimated Hillary there.

    Not all whites that don't vote for Obama are racist. Far from it. Many will support the Republican candidate because they are simply conservative and don't like the policies proposed by either Clinton or Obama. But we can do without more slippery and evasive arguments to downplay race. There is a disproportionate unwillingness to vote for Obama in certain areas of America and it should not be surprising where. Even when you control for factors like gun control or rural populism that reality is still entrenched in the electorate.


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    #73
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Lirange wrote: »
    You cannot ignore that in some sections of America a certain number of whites will simply not vote for a black president. Period. It wouldn't matter to them if it was Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell. They just don't want a black man in the White House.

    I don't deny it. But I think it highly unlikely that there hasn't been a strong case of "Hey! A black candidate! We can vote one of us into office, then we can be truly seen as equal!"
    Fairly left Democrat from a rural state? Who would this be? The Senator from New York (city) that grew up in the Illinois suburbs and still retains a strong Chicago accent?

    Yes, that one (though I don't think her accent is that strong). She's been quite contaminated by Arkansas, you don't live somewhere for that length of time, and marry a local, without some of it rubbing off on you, and the thinking is that her ties will moderate her policies more towards what the rural States like. Note that her parents were rather conservative as well, it all merges together.
    On the issues Obama and Hillary are nearly identical across the board. Their Senate votes are practically in lock-step with each other and their policy proposals on most issues don't differ very much. They've both acknowledged that and so Hillary has played up the experience and Obama has played the vision/change themes.

    The differences are in the details. Both will, for example, vote in favour of restricting firearms, both will vote in favour of mandating greater fuel economy for cars, both will vote in favour of Iraq troop reduction measures. However, Obama sees little wrong with restricting handgun or semi-auto firearm ownership, Hillary is more tolerant of it. Obama wants 40mpg industry average, Hillary's settling for a lesser number. Hillary is more hawkish than Obama on the military force front (or at least, perceived as such)
    Other parts of the country where gun rights are strong have shown much less "reluctance" in supporting Obama. The mountain West and upper Midwest don't seem to share the same "reservations" as the voters of Appalachia. A state like Wisconsin has a large working class pro gun rights white constituency. Obama decimated Hillary there.

    There's a bit more to the gun culture in the US than hunting. Wisconsin is one of only two States in the US which does not permit the carriage of concealed firearms for self defense, for example. Much less impact of his anti-pistol stance if nobody in Wisconsin is carrying one to begin with. For the sake of it, I went to the NBC interactive map, and started clicking on the states I most associate with 'gun culture.' Started with states with the greatest reputations of firearms rights being all but religious sacrament (Montana and Pennsylvania,) and worked on from there. Yes, some of them were very close (eg Nevada), but it wasn't until my sixth or seventh click (Vermont) that I got to an Obama win. Things began to alternate (more or less) at that point. Obviously it's not a scientific analysis (I like to think I'm fairly up to speed on US gun culture as an enthusiastic member of that establishment, but that's a personal bias) and it is more an example of correlation, not causation, but I found it an interesting example from my perspective. More specifically to Kentucky, the NRA had their national 4-day convention around the corner here Louisville two days before the primaries. I have no doubt that this would have had an effect on Kentucky's gun-owning population.
    But we can do without more slippery and evasive arguments to downplay race. There is a disproportionate unwillingness to vote for Obama in certain areas of America and it should not be surprising where. Even when you control for factors like gun control or rural populism that reality is still entrenched in the electorate.

    I agree, but do not think that it should be overstated, or worse, stated to exclusion of all else. I would submit that it is also relevant that some people will vote for Obama over Clinton because he's the black candidate, or because she's a woman and they're a bit mysogenistic. I'm little irked at people (not saying you're one of them, but I've seen it on sites like Democraticunderground enough) who blame the fact that Obama is not the official nominee already because of white racists who have been holding him back, without taking into account the larger scheme of things.

    NTM


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    #74
    davej
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭davej


    Dismissing calls to drop out of the race, Hillary said:

    "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it,"

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/23/1058940.aspx

    She may deny it, but she has nonetheless achieved her aim of planting the idea in people's minds...

    davej


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