Fortune Tellers

SUNGOD

ex_infantry man wrote: »

99.9 percent of what u said is bull****

brilliant reply ..really enlightening:rolleyes:

jonnyfingers

ex_infantry man wrote: »

99.9 percent of what u said is bull****

Maybe. But that 0.1% has more truth than any fortune teller!

sungod wrote:

the problem is its hard to seperate the genuine from the con artists, some will say they are all the same but i know from anecdotel evidence that there are genuine mediums out there who do want to help people
if this is what you want to spend your money on then go ahead i can think of worse ways to spend it.

I wonder if any genuine mediums would charge for their services. If I could really talk to someone's dead relative I'd feel pretty bad asking for money to relay messages.

deisemum

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Ok I have to chime in on this topic as it is one that really makes me angry.

I have an interest in magic and mentalism/mind reading. I have many books and other sources of information on the subject. I'm fairly confident I could reproduce anything a so-called "fortune teller" could do. I know people that spend hundreds of euros a year going to these people and it really annoys me to see them get exploited. While I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of genuine fortune tellers I believe that 99.9% of them are fakes. And the other 0.1% refuse to, or can't, prove what they do is real.

As for anyone who believes in "fortune tellers" I have the following suggestion. Next time you go to one go to someone who's never met you or someone close to you and who knows absolutely nothing about you. Most importantly bring a tape record. Record your whole session. My bet is this won't be allowed and the "fortune teller" will use some excuse to stop you. If they do, there's a fraud straight away. But let's assume you are allowed to record.

During the session ask some questions that require a very specific answer. I mean "a person I know died recently, what is their name?" or something to that effect. And don't choose a name like John, Mary etc! Then see if you get a specific answer. Odds are you won't. But ask away and record the whole thing. Then go home and listen back to the whole recording with a pen and paper.

Note every bit of information you give to the fortune teller, and especially look out for information you gave that you didn't even realise you were giving at the time. A "fortune teller" will use "feeler" questions that don't require a direct answer but give lots of information away based on how you answer. E.g. "You come from a big family don't you?", "Well, sort of.". This suggests you have maybe two or three siblings. Based on other "feeler" questions a "fortune teller" could work out that it's likely you have two brothers and a sister. Then presumably out of nowhere he could say you have only one sister and you're quite close. If this hits the mark you would be quite amazed. If it misses slightly, e.g. you do have only one sister and you were close but not for a couple of years, it's still pretty close. So listen to your recording and note everything you say and try to see the information you gave away without even realising it.

Also note every bit of information the "fortune teller" gives back. Is it a specific answer or a vague answer? We're not interested in vague answers as anybody can do that and if that's what you're getting you're being robbed of your money. If it is a specific answer ask yourself did you inadvertently give any information away at any stage before that that would have led to this answer? You'd be surprised how little tidbits you mention here and there can be used against you much later in the session.

At the end note how many things they guessed right that you in no way influenced (again you have to watch very carefully everything you say to the "fortune teller", they are experts are gathering this information). These are hits. Everything that they got wrong will be marked as a miss.

My guess is that there will be more misses than hits and most hits will be educated guesses made using information you unwittingly gave to the "fortune teller". Some hits will seemingly come out of nowhere. Many of these will undoubtedly be tried and trusted ones that the "fortune teller" has used on many previous clients which he/she has had success with. e.g. You're not happy in your job, you long to do something more creative like write songs, books, open a restaurant etc.

Also see if the "fortune teller" told you anything negative. Eg. "Will I get a promotion?". "No. In fact you'll be let go and spend years struggling to pay the rent.". It may turn out to be true but no "fortune teller" would ever tell you this as it's not good for business.

At the end of the day all "fortune tellers" are in it for the money. They'll tell you what you want to hear. They know that you've come to them to believe what they say so they know you'll just probably ignore everything they get wrong and instead focus on what they got right. And the best thing about the job....any direct questions can be answered with vague answers "It doesn't work that way I'm afraid", "I can only guide you, your decisions could change the future" etc.

To finish I don't want to criticize anyone here who believes in "Fortune Tellers". But just ask yourselves do these people deserve my money for telling me what I want to hear?

It's years since I've had a reading and I've been to a few tarot readers over the years but 1 really stood out, she didn't ask me any questions and didn't look at me until near the end of the reading. She taped the whole thing (most of them allow it, I've never been refused to record readings but some offer to tape it for you anyway). Friends and family have heard the recordings and noticed that she didn't ask questions until the end to find my views on the reading. She was in the UK and if I ever had the chance I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

You're so wrong when you say they never tell anything negative. I went to another one years ago who told me that in about 11 - 12 months from the reading that one of 2 men in my family would become ill and die from it roughly 18 months from the reading. She even described the circumstances of his death and that it wasn't quiet the norm. She was so spot on, it was my Dad and he became ill and died as she predicted. He wasn't even ill at the time I had the reading.

merlante

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Seriously folks, should we really be giving out details for scam artists on this board ? These vultures are only using a few well known cheap party tricks to prey on the intellectually less fortunate souls among us and it is wrong. Exploitation at its worst.

A fool and his money...

jonnyfingers

deisemum wrote: »

It's years since I've had a reading and I've been to a few tarot readers over the years but 1 really stood out, she didn't ask me any questions and didn't look at me until near the end of the reading. She taped the whole thing (most of them allow it, I've never been refused to record readings but some offer to tape it for you anyway). Friends and family have heard the recordings and noticed that she didn't ask questions until the end to find my views on the reading. She was in the UK and if I ever had the chance I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

You're so wrong when you say they never tell anything negative. I went to another one years ago who told me that in about 11 - 12 months from the reading that one of 2 men in my family would become ill and die from it roughly 18 months from the reading. She even described the circumstances of his death and that it wasn't quiet the norm. She was so spot on, it was my Dad and he became ill and died as she predicted. He wasn't even ill at the time I had the reading.

Now you've peaked my interest. I'd love to hear the recording if you still have it. But I realise that it's a personal reading and wouldn't want to intrude on your privacy.

I'm sorry for the loss of your father but I'd love to know how close her prediction was. Did he become ill after 11-12 months as said and die after the 18 months? Or were the time lines a bit out. Also did she describe the circumstances of death exactly?

Lastly did she give any predictions that did not come true?

Please understand that it's not my intention to disprove this woman. I'm just very interested in the subject and hearing of people's experiences with fortune tellers.

ex_infantry man

i,ve gone to numerous ones 2 in clonmel on separate occasion one being rory bates who does,nt let you reply to him until he finishes what he has to say and was pretty accurate on some things and the other was the woman near the topaz station she was really accuarte even down to the injuries i,ve sustained over time and why my past relationship broke up!!!

KingLoser

Jaysis, some fair hating going on around here!

Shur, doesn't half the country worship a water-walking, wine-making zombie machine?! Let them have their fortune tellers, it's not your money.

jonnyfingers

ex_infantry man wrote: »

rory bates who does,nt let you reply to him until he finishes what he has to say and was pretty accurate on some things

It's the text in bold that sums up my problem with these so called psychics. And I'll leave it there.

I'm afraid I'll have to bow out of this thread as I don't want to turn this topic into a heated debate. I'll find somewhere else to vent my frustrations.

ziedth

sungod has pretty much sumed this up for me. Derren Brown did a show on it and pretended to be a medium to a group of people to show how its fake and he was as good as john edwards or anyone on tv due to mentalist background i'm sure it should be on youtube.

Personally the whole thing makes my blood boil. Now, tbf mammy ziedth went to see kieth barry and went up on stage with him to check his heartbeat as he stopped his heart, now as he "came back" he told her that jimmy (my late grandfarther of about 6 years) said hello and he's proud of her. Now, i have no problem with this as she didn't pay for it and it made her happy to hear it.

The likes of previously memtioned john edward who make a living exploiting peoples beliefs/hopex are as bad as anyone in jail imo and i'm sure sully would send me the way of multivan if i said what i'd do to these people if i could but needless to say its not nice.

Now, for anyone who does beleve it if it makes you happy then by all means work away just keep in minds that there is a sience out there that "some" people can use as a con.

merlante

ziedth wrote: »

sungod has pretty much sumed this up for me. Derren Brown did a show on it and pretended to be a medium to a group of people to show how its fake and he was as good as john edwards or anyone on tv due to mentalist background i'm sure it should be on youtube.

In fairness, that only shows how it *can* be faked, not that it is fake. Just because you can fake supernatural powers does not mean that there no people out there with supernatural powers.

Now fair enough, I'd assume trickery before magic, but that's not the point. There is no way to prove that these abilities are false, just that they are not very reliable and that every laboratory test conducted to detect a supernatural ability has failed, and that, for the layman, trickery and mentalism are indistinguishable from the real thing.

gleoite82

Anyone got number for Rory Bates in Clonmel,would love to go to him? Heard he is very good! Woman out past fethard is very good,have been a few times and to one in clonmel by Dunnes! Good woman in dungarvan too,does past present and future!

Dan133269

Richard Dawkins went to a medium/fortune teller/whatever the hell they call themselves as part of the documentary for "Enemies of Reason." At that stage, Dawkins was about 65/66, he said the woman told him there was a male spirit present, his father, who told her he was very proud of all Richard had achieved in the world of science and his fame and international awards. She said the man told her he urged Richard to keep up his good work.

Dawkins said he strung her along for 5 minutes before telling her his father was alive and well at the age of 91!

Dan133269

gleoite82 wrote: »

Anyone got number for Rory Bates in Clonmel,would love to go to him? Heard he is very good! Woman out past fethard is very good,have been a few times and to one in clonmel by Dunnes! Good woman in dungarvan too,does past present and future!

http://www.rollercoaster.ie/boards/mc.asp?forumdb=4&order=1&g=30&ID=42351&page_num=8
All the best. May the force be with you.

Beeker

I find it incredible that people still believe in these fantasies. These "Mediums" are either scam artists or delusional.
It is far far better to know the truth about the world then to persist in delusion, no matter how comforting it may be.

dermo909

Interesting subject for sure. Like alot of things, people believe what they want to believe and if they want to pay money to hear things that they want to hear....then let them do it. Its the same with religion, it makes people feel better to believe that there's a a heaven and their loved ones are watching over them.

Exploitation is another thing.

I'm sure there are people out there who really can do weird things like read peoples auras and whatever but I would bet any money that most fortune tellers are not real. Certainly the ones that you would find in tramore during the summer months are for entertainment purposes only!

Also, I cant believe that nobody has brought up the subject of the reward that Keith Barry has put up if someone can prove to him that they are psychic. 10,000 euro up for grabs if you can prove that you are psychic.

http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/magician-keiths-836410k-offer-to-all-psychics-1607624.html

If I was psychic I'd be all over it.

Jubo

I went to a Waterford psychic a couple of years ago at the same time as a couple of friends - just for the crack. He told me a few ridiculously unbelievable and freaky things (can't really go into it - you'll have to take my word for it) that would happen in the future and it all came true. I was really impressed!! A friend of mine then went to the same one during a really traumatic period in her life but didnt give the psychic any clue to her circumstances. The psychic didnt mention anything about the awful time she was having at all. Not a thing!! I think he was just having a lucky day when he saw me and that its a lot of nonsense tbh. Would'nt base my decisions in life on what a psychic says but, as previously pointed out - mainstream religions believe in stuff that seems nuts to anyone who doesnt believe in it.

Beeker

dermo909 wrote: »

Interesting subject for sure. Like alot of things, people believe what they want to believe and if they want to pay money to hear things that they want to hear....then let them do it. Its the same with religion, it makes people feel better to believe that there's a a heaven and their loved ones are watching over them.

Exploitation is another thing.

I'm sure there are people out there who really can do weird things like read peoples auras and whatever but I would bet any money that most fortune tellers are not real. Certainly the ones that you would find in tramore during the summer months are for entertainment purposes only!

Also, I cant believe that nobody has brought up the subject of the reward that Keith Barry has put up if someone can prove to him that they are psychic. 10,000 euro up for grabs if you can prove that you are psychic.

http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/magician-keiths-836410k-offer-to-all-psychics-1607624.html

If I was psychic I'd be all over it.

While I agree with most of what you said I disagree with your statment that "most fortune tellers are not real". None of them are real! IMO
Great to see Keith Barry put it up to them but even better still is the James Randi offer of $1 million to anyone who can prove a supernatural ability like mediums, astrologers, ghost hunters, chiropractors, raki freaks etc.......dont get me started:eek:
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

This is open to anyone who can show any paranormal ability at all. It has been available for years but they get very very few takers......I wonder why?:)

Psychedelic

Psychics are just very good cold readers. I'd say some of them have a natural ability to cold read and unconsciously sense things about people but think they are actually psychic, but most are just out and out phonies.

Derren Brown is another guy who recently exposed psychics, mediums and fortune tellers as frauds.

YumDeiseMum

ex_infantry man wrote: »

i,ve gone to numerous ones 2 in clonmel on separate occasion one being rory bates who does,nt let you reply to him until he finishes what he has to say and was pretty accurate on some things and the other was the woman near the topaz station she was really accuarte even down to the injuries i,ve sustained over time and why my past relationship broke up!!!

About 8 years ago myself and a friend went to see a woman in Clonmel, and to be fair most of what she told us both has happened as she predicted in the years since. There was a multi-coloured painted fence at the end of the road to her house. I think she was on the Cashel road near Guidant.

I cant remember her name, but would love to go to her again if anyone else knows her details.

deisemum

YumDeiseMum wrote: »

About 8 years ago myself and a friend went to see a woman in Clonmel, and to be fair most of what she told us both has happened as she predicted in the years since. There was a multi-coloured painted fence at the end of the road to her house. I think she was on the Cashel road near Guidant.

I cant remember her name, but would love to go to her again if anyone else knows her details.

I think you're on about Kay Malally if so let me know and I'll pm her details to you, she moved house a while back.

She's the one who predicted my late dad's illness and demise.

YumDeiseMum

deisemum wrote: »

I think you're on about Kay Malally if so let me know and I'll pm her details to you, she moved house a while back.

She's the one who predicted my late dad's illness and demise.

Yes thats her! Thanks

Can you send on her details

jonnyfingers

Just to add that Keith Barry's €10,000 "reward" for anyone who proves themselves to be psychic is a tiny amount compared to what James Randi has been offereing. A cool $1,000,000. The Million Dollar Challenge has actually existed since 1968 and although the amount offered to a proved psychic was initially small it has grown and it reached $1 million in 1996. Still, not one person has been able to prove themselves to be a psychic or medium since 1968. I think that speaks for itself.

But other than the fact that I believe all psychics/medium who charge for their services to be complete frauds (bearing in mind I know quite a bit about the techniques commonly used to appear psychic) it's the mentality of those who look to have their future foretold that baffles me.

The way I see it, and lets assume you've found a genuine psychic, if you are told of future events that will happen to you, two things can happen.

1. Lets assume that the future can be changed. In this case after a "prediction" the very knowledge of such events will either subconsiously or consiously lead you to make future decisions that will increase or decrease the likelyhood of the event happening.

For example being told you'll meet the man of your dreams in the next 6 months, so you start going out on dates and actively looking for him. There's a good chance that you will meet someone, and here's the kicker, because you've been given a "timeline" of 6 months, you're more likely to settle for someone who may not be the man of your dreams, but pretty close. Prediction came true, what a psychic!

Now ff you never went to the psychic and were never told you'd meet the man of your dreams in 6 months, you may not go out actively looking for him and you may never meet him. So your "predicted future" only comes into existence upon seeing the medium. So in this case this to me is not a valid future prediction, this is a suggestion leading to a likely outcome.

And oppositely if the future event is something you'd rather not experience you will again subconsiously or consiously take steps to avoid that outcome. For example, you will lose a large sum of money in the next 6 months. In this case you might stop gambling, buy a better wallet, save more, leave less cash on your person or in the house, avoid risky investments etc.

Also note this is actually a good example of a "prediction" as it's so broad, vague and likely it will almost be sure to happen. First off who's to say what a "large sum of money" is? Secondly how could you lose money? Phsyically lose cash, lose your job, bet big on the horses only for your one to fall at the last fence, loan money to a friend that doesn't pay you back. The list is endless.

Anyway onto the second possible outcome.

2. Lets assume the future cannot be changed. In this case knowing the future will only lead to hope for possitive predictions and fear or worry for negative predictions. Now if the possitive predictions come true great. Howver if they don't come true, that hope turns to false hope and you will feel cheated and dissapointed. Now if the negative prediction comes ture, oh well, nothing you could have done about it. However you spent the time from seeing the psychic to the event happening worrying on top of it. Ok maybe you could change your life if you knew you were going to be dead in 6 months let's say, but would you really do this on the prediction of a one man or woman who you can't be sure is right or wrong? Also what happens if the negative prediction does not come true. Well in this case you'll be over the moon and relieved, however you will have also been worrying unnecessarily and possibly changing your life drastically on the basis of a false prediction.

So in this case I don't see why anyone would want to know their future. I can't see many, if any, positives to it.

Notice at the top I singled out psychics who charge for their services. This is important to me. If you can predict the future why do you need to charge €50 a pop for it? Why not win the lotto? Why not invest in the next big thing? The answer is you would, if you could...........but you can't. You're a fraud. If you give the usual answer "It doesn't work that way", you're a liar. It's so preposterous to think that telling the future can only be done in such a precise, yet vague way, and that every psychic seems to do it the same as if it's a skill hardcoded in your DNA or something you can learn. In fact it is something you can learn and I can show you books and DVDs that will show you how.

Now if you actually talk to dead people do you think you'd be charging €50 a pop to do it? More likely you'd be terrified out of your wits or in a mental asylum. And even if you could control when and how you do it would it make you believe in an afterlife? In a God? If so do you think he'll be happy that you charged people for the privilege?

Now am I saying that there is nobody in the world that can do something out of the ordinary? Far from it. But I can be sure that anyone doing it for money is a complete fraud. And this annoys me as people are paying good money for what I believe to be a false service. The impact on their lives after a visit to a psychic cannot be measured and can be terrible. I know of one girl who broke up with her lovely boyfriend who she was happy with because she was told he was not the man she would marry. Now she's single and miserable, but hey the prediction came true, he's not taking her back!

But at the end of the day if you're happy to pay money for a false service, if it gives you something you need, then go ahead, I won't stop you. But I will be a little sad that another fraud has made a quick buck.

*gets off soapbox.

dayshah

dermo909 wrote: »

Also, I cant believe that nobody has brought up the subject of the reward that Keith Barry has put up if someone can prove to him that they are psychic.

I knew he would do that.