say goodbye to old ireland

stevoman

just a quick question too see does anyone agree with me.

Does anybody else here think that we as a nation completly sold out on our culture for the sake of "modernisation" and a few extra quid?

I think so and to be honest and i solely blame the goverment and next in line after them are the greedy builders.

views????

Fratton Fred

Do you mean the old tradition of leaving school and jumping on a ferry to Britain to get a job rather than driving around the M50 in your new BMW to your job in Microsoft/Oracle/Hewlett Packard?

dazftw

first time posting here.. saw it on the homepage.. I dont really understand the question but I just finished school 2 years ago and just for all my secondary years no one had an interest in Irish AT ALL. As for sports they will all slowly die out in my opinion (hurling and gaelic) theres too much better choice, snooker being one is a big one.. I saw someone speaking Irish the other day on the street for the 1st time in years..

If this is the stuff you talking about then yes I agree I wouldnt go to say as much "sold out" but yea its just the way things are going..

If im wrong ignore this lol 1st time posting in politics and ive no interest in it really..

cavedave

Does anybody else here think that we as a nation completly sold out on our culture for the sake of "modernisation" and a few extra quid?

Yes as did the neolithic people when they took to this fancy new "iron" stuff.

take immigration. If you want to keep a coherent "strong" culture you should ban inward migration. If you do this you will damage your economy. Would you ban migrants just so that everyone in Ireland could dance at the crossroads?

Flex

I think the way the country is going isnt a bad thing, but Im very disappointed at how our own culture/heritage is largely ignored to a great extent imo.

Most people you talk to these days around my age or younger would be only vaguely (at most) aware of great Irish legends like Finn mac Cumhaill or Cuchulainn, or the Fianna or Red Branch Knights, and of course theres the usual tossers who accuse people who have an interest in Irish culture and heritage of being Sinn Fein/IRA supporters/want to be dominated by the RC church/anti-British/anti-immigrant or whatever crap they say that makes them feel warm in their pants. We have such a rich heritage of our own but its going by the wayside which is a terrible shame and tbh I think that immigrants would be interested in learning it. Gaeilge is ineveitably going to lose it compulsory status in secondary schools too, which I think is a real shame.

Something Id like to have happen (although I know it never will) would be in secondary schools, rather than having kids learn about Shakesperian (sp.) plays almost exclusively (from what I remember from the Junior cert), have them learn Irish stories from the Mythological, Ulster, Fenian and Historical cycles for the Junior and Leaving certs. That would be good. Thats my opinion anyway.

Mr.Micro

You mean a culture of poverty, unemployment, third world economy, church and priest ridden, emigration and corruption. Oh, I almost forgot to mention one TV channel where the highlight of the week was the Late late Show for the weekly sermon from more priests as guests of Gay Byrne. The nostalgia is making me weak at the knees, it was akin to living in an eastern Bloc country. I am glad we have moved on but there is a price, globalization and when to reign in the destruction of the landscape and manage our own affairs.

Tea drinker

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you mean the old tradition of leaving school and jumping on a ferry to Britain to get a job rather than driving around the M50 in your new BMW to your job in Microsoft/Oracle/Hewlett Packard?

Ah yeah but are they happy! :D:D

I know we are a heck of a lot more stressed then we used to be. But of course we can have all mod cons, etc. Has quality of life suffered?
Obviously yes if we are all more stressed.
Is it better in some respects? yes, we have almost 100% employment, I know when looking for work here before it was really bad, we had 100% depression.
But look at the price we payed - D4 accent, knackers with loads of money, houses that are mulitples more expensive than what our parents had to shell out, the health service is shot to ****, the football team should be on trollies, even U2 still haven't found what they were looking for.

Absolutely material obsessed society now.
Even the collapse of the family is seen as something to snort some coke to. (Champers is SO last year)

I imagine bangalore / Kuala Lumpur are seeing even more rapid changes.
NOW GET BACK TO WORK ROBO-PADDY!

Hotblack Desiato

Yes we have, and speaking as someone old enough to remember the grim 70s(just) and 80s, I say good riddance to it.

purple'n'gold

stevoman wrote: »

just a quick question too see does anyone agree with me.

Does anybody else here think that we as a nation completly sold out on our culture for the sake of "modernisation" and a few extra quid?

I think so and to be honest and i solely blame the goverment and next in line after them are the greedy builders.

views????

Was it for this the wild geese spread
They grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all the blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

William Butler Yeats.

CerebralCortex

stevoman wrote: »

just a quick question too see does anyone agree with me.

Does anybody else here think that we as a nation completly sold out on our culture for the sake of "modernisation" and a few extra quid?

I think so and to be honest and i solely blame the goverment and next in line after them are the greedy builders.

views????

Cultures need to evolve. We still have an Irish culture its just not most peoples outdated fiddly diddily idea of what Irish culture should be. I'm glad of the change because as I said before I had the misfortune of living in dear old closed minded catholic Ireland. Good riddance.
L

the_syco

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You mean a culture of poverty, unemployment, third world economy, church and priest ridden, emigration and corruption. Oh, I almost forgot to mention one TV channel where the highlight of the week was the Late late Show for the weekly sermon from more priests as guests of Gay Byrne. The nostalgia is making me weak at the knees, it was akin to living in an eastern Bloc country. I am glad we have moved on but there is a price, globalization and when to reign in the destruction of the landscape and manage our own affairs.

Seconded.

stevoman

purplengold wrote: »

Was it for this the wild geese spread
They grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all the blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

William Butler Yeats.

Thats excellent its been years since i have read that poem. Cheers for the memory!

Jack Sheehan

Well Yeats wrote that because he was pissed at them for rejecting his ridiculous bridge gallery idea.

stevoman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you mean the old tradition of leaving school and jumping on a ferry to Britain to get a job rather than driving around the M50 in your new BMW to your job in Microsoft/Oracle/Hewlett Packard?

I dont drive a BMW. What i mean is that Ireland is changing so fast with everything becoming so modern and so many different races creeds and colours in the country that it wont be long until Ireland becomes a "mongrel Nation", not unlike america or the uk and it wont be too long before out culture will be a thing of the past as it will have got in the way of the "new Ireland", and some of the traditions and ways of life will be lost forever.

ps - this is not a racist arguement pc's

djpbarry

Flex wrote: »

Gaeilge is ineveitably going to lose it compulsory status in secondary schools too, which I think is a real shame.

Most people don't want to learn Irish - it is wrong to force it on them. Best to leave it to the people who have a genuine interest.

Flex wrote: »

Something Id like to have happen (although I know it never will) would be in secondary schools, rather than having kids learn about Shakesperian (sp.) plays almost exclusively (from what I remember from the Junior cert), have them learn Irish stories from the Mythological, Ulster, Fenian and Historical cycles for the Junior and Leaving certs.

Are Irish plays and poetry not an integral part of Leaving Cert English? They were when I sat the exam.

Tea drinker wrote: »

Absolutely material obsessed society now.

Agreed.

stevoman wrote: »

...it wont be long until Ireland becomes a "mongrel Nation", not unlike america or the uk...

The UK is 92% white (86% "white British"). I'd hardly call it a "mongrel nation".

stevoman

djpbarry wrote: »

The UK is 92% white (86% "white British"). I'd hardly call it a "mongrel nation".

Interesting i would have thought it to be more. Can i see where you got the figures, im interested in seein if you dont mind..

djpbarry

stevoman wrote: »

Can i see where you got the figures, im interested in seein if you dont mind..

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001

purple'n'gold

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Well Yeats wrote that because he was pissed at them for rejecting his ridiculous bridge gallery idea.

Yes, Yeats regarded (with just cause) the likes of William Martin Murphy as greedy selfish, philistines.

WHAT need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

silverharp

stevoman wrote: »

Interesting i would have thought it to be more. Can i see where you got the figures, im interested in seein if you dont mind..

from a genetic point of view the % is much lower, a large % of english people have North African Mid east and Asian DNA. There was a prog on it last year and it was a hoot to see their reaction

djpbarry

silverharp wrote: »

from a genetic point of view the % is much lower, a large % of english people have North African Mid east and Asian DNA. There was a prog on it last year and it was a hoot to see their reaction

Yes, I saw that. Very amusing!

CerebralCortex

stevoman wrote: »

I dont drive a BMW. What i mean is that Ireland is changing so fast with everything becoming so modern and so many different races creeds and colours in the country that it wont be long until Ireland becomes a "mongrel Nation",

Ireland has always been a mongrel nation.
The UK has a lot more vibrant culture than Ireland in my opinion. Wouldn't you want the same for Ireland.

stevoman wrote: »

not unlike america or the uk and it wont be too long before out culture will be a thing of the past as it will have got in the way of the "new Ireland", and some of the traditions and ways of life will be lost forever.

The US is a mongrel nation and it has the strongest culture in the world.
Beside what "culture" are you talking about what are these so called ways of life?

stevoman wrote: »

ps - this is not a racist arguement pc's

Funny it sounds like it to me. Forgive it may seem like I'm ranting but the subject of your thread sounds so xenophobic. Its like being in a redneck pub in the deep south.

Jack Sheehan

Not to be Pc or anything but I take offense at the term 'mongrel nation'. To me it conjures up images of the 'master race' and other such ideas.

GuanYin

Old Ireland died long before we saw an influx of immigrants into this country. It's funny how retroactive blame works tends to come with a heavy dose of amnesia.

How many people here speak Irish fluently? How many people here know all the words to the most popular trad songs? How many people here have ever performed Irish dancing or attended a Ceili (a proper one, not the drink fests from college)? How many people play GAA sports regularly, even in the garden? How many even watch them?

I'm betting very few people fit all catagories and they have nothing to do with outside influences.

CerebralCortex

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Not to be Pc or anything but I take offense at the term 'mongrel nation'. To me it conjures up images of the 'master race' and other such ideas.

Oh well a nation of many races then. I certainly don't see myself of purely celtic origin like the national school history books would have had me believe when I was a kid.

Qs

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You mean a culture of poverty, unemployment, third world economy, church and priest ridden, emigration and corruption.

Good thing we cut that corruption out.



As for the Yeats I think Luke Kellys "For What Died the Sons of Róisín" is more appropriate.

stevoman

well i cherish old ireland and call me whatever you like but im proud of it. As the racist thing goes, i have lived in america for a few years and i cant ever agrue the fact about other people coming into the country...once they are willing to work!!!

what i am saying is the old culture of ireland will soon be dead and gone i for one will be damn sad to see that happen!!!!!!!!!

lostexpectation

oh yes because the only choice we had to avoid the 70's duldrums was go too far the other way

CerebralCortex

stevoman wrote: »

well i cherish old ireland and call me whatever you like but im proud of it. As the racist thing goes, i have lived in america for a few years and i cant ever agrue the fact about other people coming into the country...once they are willing to work!!!

what i am saying is the old culture of ireland will soon be dead and gone i for one will be damn sad to see that happen!!!!!!!!!

WTF is this "old culture of ireland" business? When I was 5 I idolised B.A. Barracus and Indiana Jones because Ireland/Irish culture in the 80s/90s had nothing else to offer and I honestly believe culturally we are far better off now.
I'm for one extremely glad Irish culture is changing into imho something actual. Depression, relentless adoration of alcohol, and emigration are not a culture.

the_syco

Flex wrote: »

Gaeilge is ineveitably going to lose it compulsory status in secondary schools too, which I think is a real shame.

Are you talking about the 1930's bas*ardised version that we are taught, that allows you to read poems, but f**k all else? Look at any language (German or French), how it's taught, and then look how Irish is taught, and you'll see a big difference.

stevoman

CerebralCortex wrote: »

WTF is this "old culture of ireland" business? When I was 5 I idolised B.A. Barracus and Indiana Jones because Ireland/Irish culture in the 80s/90s had nothing else to offer and I honestly believe culturally we are far better off now.
I'm for one extremely glad Irish culture is changing into imho something actual. Depression, relentless adoration of alcohol, and emigration are not a culture.

well that your view and i have mine, but i stand by what i think. Just one thing though you are right on one thing, relentless adoration for alcohol and emigration are not a culture. They ARE parts of our history though.

seamus

Can't stand in the way of progress.

We haven't lost what I believe are the most important aspects of our culture - family, friendship and craic. When we stop basing our lives on these three things, then maybe we can lament, but I haven't seen it happen yet.

All of that thatched cottages and seanchai and fiddly-dee and crap isn't Irish culture. It's american-perpetuated stereotypes and tourist traps. Most of the country abandoned all that 60 years ago.