say goodbye to old ireland

CerebralCortex

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

-Better community spirit
-People more friendly
-Less rushing
-Simple times
-Less violent crime
-People seemed more happy
-Countryside wasnt destroyed with housing

I could go on...

Are those facts or just personal experience? I know personally that for the first time I'm experiencing a better quality of life. Better than I've ever experienced when I was a kid in dear old Ireland. Mind you I'm not that old. Judging purely by your name and forgive me if I'm wrong but your not that old either.

The world is what you make it.
CC

CerebralCortex

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Well you like to focus entirely on the negative side. That can be done with anything in life.

Isn't that what your doing to modern Ireland or are you failing to see the positive side.

djpbarry

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

"Less violent crimes reported" - you say it as if there was the same amount of violent crime in the good old days but it just wasnt reported. That is absolute nonsence. How can you argue with such a stupid comment!

There has been a large increase in recorded assaults over the past 90 years or so ( a change in the way the stats are recorded by Gardai may account in part for this increase), but the homicide rate is actually lower now than it was in the late 20's and 30's.

The incidence of reported sexual crimes has also risen, but these figures are largely meaningless. The incidence of reported sex crime as a proportion of total sex crime is very low and depends entirely on cultural factors to do with stigmas associated with sex crimes and the indignities women in particular feel as a consequence of reporting such crime.

Kev_ps3

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Isn't that what your doing to modern Ireland or are you failing to see the positive side.

No, I see the positive and negative sides to bits eras. And I choose the good old days every time.

djpbarry

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

No, I see the positive and negative sides to bits eras. And I choose the good old days every time.

Ok then, give us some negatives to living in the "good old days" and some positives about modern Ireland. And when exactly was the "good old days"?

gandalf

stevoman wrote: »

Obviously gandalf is willing to insinuate that i am a racist and walk away from the thread leaving that as his only input to the topic. :rolleyes:

Nope if you read the charter you will see you are supposed to outline your position fully which you admit you didn't do. You said yourself that you were fishing for other peoples opinions. Based on experience of threads of this type before I assumed you were coming from a certain school of thought, I was wrong but so were you. Next time outline you own opinion fully so we can understand what you mean starting threads like this up

As regards change, of course there will be change. Cultures and Civilisations have to. We have influences on our lives now that didn't even exist 50 years ago.

Kev_ps3

djpbarry wrote: »

Ok then, give us some negatives to living in the "good old days" and some positives about modern Ireland. And when exactly was the "good old days"?

I was just giving my opinion. If you dont like it then tough. You obviously like the way our country has turned out and ive no problem with that. We are never going to agree.

djpbarry

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I was just giving my opinion. If you dont like it then tough.

I see. So you're not going to answer my question then?

Kev_ps3

djpbarry wrote: »

I see. So you're not going to answer my question then?

I dont see the point.

purple'n'gold

I would challenge anyone to tell me any positive thing that happened in Ireland in the 1950’s (Wexford winning two all Irelands doesn’t count)

rcecil

Having seen the corporate destruction of America first hand this is a great question to ask those who think that everything is ****e and nothing is possible. The new crop of SFleaders like Mary Lou McDonald, Pearse Dougherty and others are bright stars in hoping for a real opposition to the current race to the bottom of culture and opportunity here.

The only world leader to meet with Bush before the massacre in Irag and present him with a party letter of opposition was Gerry Adams...

Tommy T

rcecil wrote: »

Having seen the corporate destruction of America first hand this is a great question to ask those who think that everything is ****e and nothing is possible. The new crop of SFleaders like Mary Lou McDonald, Pearse Dougherty and others are bright stars in hoping for a real opposition to the current race to the bottom of culture and opportunity here.

The only world leader to meet with Bush before the massacre in Irag and present him with a party letter of opposition was Gerry Adams...

Is that the same Mary Lou who was parachuted into dublin Central and ended up with 3K votes? Sf's days in the limelight are long gone mate. Ever since they agreed to administer British Rule in the 6 counties they've come into line with the Establishment...

CerebralCortex

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I dont see the point.

duggie-89

purplengold wrote: »

I would challenge anyone to tell me any positive thing that happened in Ireland in the 1950’s (Wexford winning two all Irelands doesn’t count)

the border campaign

duggie-89

Tommy T wrote: »

Is that the same Mary Lou who was parachuted into dublin Central and ended up with 3K votes? Sf's days in the limelight are long gone mate. Ever since they agreed to administer British Rule in the 6 counties they've come into line with the Establishment...

a beg to differ, were pushing hard to achieve what we want.

yes there were set backs but what about the huge margins of votes gained in the border areas. it not the last of SF mate.

Tommy T

duggie-89 wrote: »

a beg to differ, were pushing hard to achieve what we want.

yes there were set backs but what about the huge margins of votes gained in the border areas. it not the last of SF mate.

You've basically taken up the old Workers Party vote. There'll always be a few seats in the Dail for you but thats about it...

duggie-89

Tommy T wrote: »

You've basically taken up the old Workers Party vote. There'll always be a few seats in the Dail for you but thats about it...

well that is one of the challenges of SF how do they develop a wide support base and convince the people that the current FF gov are doing nothing for them.

Tommy T

duggie-89 wrote: »

well that is one of the challenges of SF how do they develop a wide support base and convince the people that the current FF gov are doing nothing for them.

In other words you're running into the Centre to join the rest of us...;)

djpbarry

duggie-89 wrote: »

well that is one of the challenges of SF how do they develop a wide support base...

Start living in the 21st century?

seamus

duggie-89 wrote: »

well that is one of the challenges of SF how do they develop a wide support base and convince the people that the current FF gov are doing nothing for them.

Rebranding.
Sinn Féin have two main problems:
1. They are still linked with the IRA in the public consciousness. Many people simply won't vote for them because they believe that SF still are part of a terrorist organisation.

2. Socialism. Not gonna fly I'm afraid. The Irish love having their cake and eating it and then getting more and more cake until they have more than they can possibly eat. SF need to change their ethos so it appears less radical. We don't want to pay more taxes in order to subsidise those on lower wages and protect the Ireland of the 1950's. It's possible to have high taxes and *not* appear to be verging on communism. SF would do well to take a look at Holland and start working towards that.

jmayo

purplengold wrote: »

I would challenge anyone to tell me any positive thing that happened in Ireland in the 1950’s (Wexford winning two all Irelands doesn’t count)

Alright then it doesn'tinvolve Wexford but Mayo won two All Irelands
They were our last two :mad:

Backon topic, I think the one useful thing McDougal did in his entire political career was expose SF on TV prior to the last election.
It is rare to see Adams ruffled and he was punch drunk. It also exposed their lack of real economic policies.

Hobbes

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Well you like to focus entirely on the negative side. That can be done with anything in life.

Give me some positives for say the 70's- early 80's that the majority of the Irish population experienced.

Húrin

djpbarry wrote: »

Most people don't want to learn Irish - it is wrong to force it on them. Best to leave it to the people who have a genuine interest.

This is Americanised consumerist thinking. School is no supermarket, and the language is our culture.

djpbarry

Húrin wrote: »

This is Americanised consumerist thinking. School is no supermarket, and the language is our culture.

Yeah, I'm a consumerist whore because I don't want to learn Irish :rolleyes:

School is about preparing kids for the real world, which includes cultural teachings, but there has to be a balance.

kreuzberger

i was sitting at the smoking hut in work this morning . 3 poles were listening to a thin lizzy cd , tapping thier feet to whiskey in the jar . One of thems taking irish classes as well as english . A country thats been overrun and ceased to exist numerous times , lost vast amounts of its population in various wars yet still manages to speak its own language and wouldnt tolerate an invader on one inch of their soil . Im reasonably patriotic but in reality we are much inferior culturally to them . And most other nations . The poles are much more likely to have an appreciation of the importance of a national culture in ones life , because basicaly its good for you and your mental health . Alienation and dissassociation lead to all sorts of negative emotional impulses and practises and those are pretty evident in our society .
Go into any pub in this country , particularly south of the border and the only topics of conversation are english soccer and property , property feckin property . Probably the ow point was the Late Late show special on the ISSAs . When Pat Kenny invited on a host of plummy voiced middle class toipes to advise the great unwashed on how to spend their new found material wealth wisely and not make a show of themselves by blowing it on Cidona and sam spudz crisps or something . Fcuk property and fcuk soccer and the low expectation having mofo mentality that puts all that dross central to their universe .No wonder people are resorting to copious amounts of cocaine to make their Ahernist existence tolerable .
We have an evolved culture thats admired by many outside our country but we are a deeply uncultured nation because we regard a lack of culture as somehow modern and progressive . Thats backward in the extreme , idiotic . Only a totally backward unmitigated idiot could really believe that .

To those who thnk thats something new it most definitely isnt . Following the potato blight the catholic church and the native constitutional nationalist political class personified by OConnell too it upon themselves to eradicate the Irish langauge on the grounds that it was backward and a stamp of poverty , making an Irish people unsuitable for the modern economy and society that was then in operation in Ireland . It was common practice for children in Irish speaking areas to wear a small wooden stick on a necklace when attending school . If the child spoke Irish the teacher or preist would cut a notch into the stick . If the child returned to school the next day without evidence of being suitably chastised , that is bruses, the parents names would be read from the pulpit at mass . A severe social sanction . The same ingrained , backward , ignorant uncultured attitudes we inherited from a deeply uncultured church are what we have today in modern Ireland , along with aggressive individualism and sneering contempt for most expressions or persuits of a national basis or ethos .

Its very easy to detect from many who declare a disinterest in our language , GAA , music and the concept of a united soverign Ireland not a disinterest at all but a deep seated contempt and hatred for these notions . One that has to be expressed in order to somehow be considered modern and progressive . In reality its just backwardness and a form of mental dissociation . Its inextricably linked to centuries of colonialism and a desire to identify with the powerful and reject the weak . Its pretty mental and often not pretty to listen to. But its a complex deeply ingrained within our society

luckat

kreuzberger wrote: »

But its a complex deeply ingrained within our society

Doubt it, honestly. It's the fashion. Fashions change.

kreuzberger

its a very old fashion and hasnt changed at all . The notion that the Irish language and culture is backward and of no economic use therefore obsolete is as old as the hills , dating back to the agenda imposed by the catholic church in the mid 19th century at least . Theres nothing remotely modern in this outlook . Its as much a rural outlook of the 1930s and 40s as it is some modern metropolitan concept . People following this line arent rejecting their parents or grandparents generation , theyre copying their parents grandparents and greatgrandparents and mimicking their low expectaions and lack of self esteem . whats worse they think they invented this stuff . They inherited it as baggage passed from one messed up generation to the next.

djpbarry

kreuzberger wrote: »

Its very easy to detect from many who declare a disinterest in our language , GAA , music and the concept of a united soverign Ireland not a disinterest at all but a deep seated contempt and hatred for these notions .

I see. So one is not officially "Irish" unless they speak fluent Irish, support the local GAA team, play the fiddle and support Sinn Féin?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

kreuzberger wrote: »

People following this line arent rejecting their parents or grandparents generation , theyre copying their parents grandparents and greatgrandparents and mimicking their low expectaions and lack of self esteem .

Bollocks. My grandmother was a fluent Irish speaker, as were her parents, but that's got nothing to do with my inability to speak the language.

ateam

I'm so lucky to be living in Ireland in the 21st century. We're no longer under the suffocating grip of the Catholic Church which held us back for so long socially and economically. Societies move in cycles and constantly change,Ireland is just going through a new change..we've done it before and we'll do it again. And the OP blamed the government on this alleged modernisation thingy..Please explain this? Are you referring to this government, the last government or what government? I hope you don't blame the government for anything.

Tea drinker

djpbarry wrote: »

I see. So one is not officially "Irish" unless they speak fluent Irish, support the local GAA team, play the fiddle and support Sinn Féin?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Bollocks. My grandmother was a fluent Irish speaker, as were her parents, but that's got nothing to do with my inability to speak the language.

Come on, he never said that!
My parents were from the heart of the country and couldn't speak Irish to save their lives. The language is almost dead, should it be shot?
The state (outside of fashion trends) is the foster parent of culture. If Irish was sold to kids properly they could have been intertested, maybe even me. The state broadcaster done SFA to promote Irish, or home grown programs, in fact it's still predominantly US programming here, with local programmes coming in far behind. And usually of poor quality too.
So ther's an example of the state not doing much. Yes there has been an Irish curriculum in schools, whoopy do, and Irish is optional.
What about the French banning the use of anglo-slang words to protect their language?
English is a bastard language, a bunch of inconcistencies slung together in mish-mash of foreign tongues, including Irish. It should really be modernized to make sense. To brag, or us to be proud of speaking English rather than Irish is pretty stupid!
BTW thanks for you contribution Kreuzberger, said it better than I ever could