Animal lovers

NoNameRanger

Thought ye might find this thread interesting.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055208362

Sparks

In the event that this thread does kick off, I'll post a pre-emptive reminder to all posters to heed the forum charter, in particular the provision requiring civility; and to maybe suggest that in the thread linked to above, no party did precisely the right thing, so there's no moral high ground to occupy...

stevoman

christ almighty, please give me patience!!!!! whats wrong with these people.

Did you hear Gerry Ryan the other day. Some idiot rang in saying she seen a dead rein deer on the road and she just couldnt get over it. Hello idiot we dont have wild rein deer in Ireland. The same clown then said she had knocked over a crow last month and couldnt get it out of her mind since What kills me is the same person probobly went and cooked 5 chicken breasts for dinner that night and cooked beef and pork the next day..... thats magic meat that grows on trees you know!!!!!!!

Sparks

whats wrong with these people.

I'm fairly sure that that could be equally said for folks hunting on public lands who rely on a single, poorly-posted notice to keep ramblers out of the danger area. Hence my above post. In fact, since the OP on the other thread seems to be involving the Gardai, I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't just close this thread off.

stevoman

i dont know sparks. As i said in my last post in the AL thread there are two sides to every story. If the Guards are involved there will definitly be three. Side A, Side B, and then the Truth.

bunny shooter

Hysterical wannabe animal lovers.

Freinds of mine who had paid Colite for deer shooting in Wicklow regularly were abused by hickers while legally out shooting. Gardai should be informed of this and take it seriously.

Trojan911

This + This = Hmmmmm EGAR or Ms G the OP of that thread I wonder?

While they do a good job, they have a tendancy to get a bit excited sometimes. On the "About Us" page they state EGAR have a strict no kill policy thus all the hype on their thread.

stevoman

Damn, its hard to knock a woman who does rescue and shelter work for dogs. I have a lot of admiration for anyone who does that work. Im a bit red faced now.

lightening

Trojan911 wrote: »

On the "About Us" page they state EGAR have a strict no kill policy thus all the hype on their thread.

They have a strict no kill policy on the breeds they get in. So if they get a Bull Terrier in that has been torn apart by other dogs in a pit, they won't kill it, or the dogs that did it. They give the dogs a good life. Thats a good thing Trojan. Hardly anyone likes killing dogs.

I don't think she is a screaming whiner, I'd say she was genuinely frightened.

Trojan911

lightening wrote: »

So if they get a Bull Terrier in that has been torn apart by other dogs in a pit, they won't kill it, Thats a good thing Trojan.

Are you an official spokesperson for this orgaisation? Allowing continued suffering is in itself cruelty in my opinion. Still a good thing?

BryanL

Torn apart? urban bloody myths. i've never seen or heard of these dogs pulled apart. These people makes their living from the whole "animal creulty circus"
i wonder how many family dogs are picked up by do gooders that are a few hundred yards from their homes and then sold on or re-homed by these people.I had a dog go missing from it's kennel(most likely stolen) but when i tried the various amateur "dogs homes" there was no way of tracing what they had where it was etc. etc.
on a side note i asked a friend if his new girlfriend was an animal lover, he paused and was serious when he said "she's fairly frisky alright"
Bryan

fits

Trojan911 wrote: »

Are you an official spokesperson for this orgaisation? Allowing continued suffering is in itself cruelty in my opinion. Still a good thing?

You misunderstand. 'No Kill' essentially means that they will not a pts a dog that cannot be rehomed, such as one with aggresssion issues or those with expensive-to-treat health problems.

If the dog is suffering or in pain, of course they will pts.

fits

BryanL wrote: »

Torn apart? urban bloody myths. i've never seen or heard of these dogs pulled apart. These people makes their living from the whole "animal creulty circus"

so you dont believe dog fighting occurs? As for the 'making a living' comment, I can certainly assure you that EGAR makes no living from this.

i wonder how many family dogs are picked up by do gooders that are a few hundred yards from their homes and then sold on or re-homed by these people.I had a dog go missing from it's kennel(most likely stolen) but when i tried the various amateur "dogs homes" there was no way of tracing what they had where it was etc. etc.
Bryan

Best way to avoid this is to put an id plate on the dogs collar with your phone number, and microchip the dog. I dont think theres much excuse for not having a dog identifiable these days.

There were around 15,000 dogs (strays and surrenders) killed in pounds last year. That is far too many.

As for the traceability, its absolutely shocking that there isnt a proper centralised database for missing and found dogs in which the pounds participate. I lost my own dog, and only found him by chance even though both I and the rescue organisation that took him in left details at the same pounds.

jameshayes

I strongly disagree with this thread. The OP - EGAR was walking a child & dog in the forest and gunfire is heard, and men walk out of the woods with guns and painted faces?! Wake up and smell the horse sh!t lads, if you were walking your child and lads with guns in hunting gear walked towards you you'd get a fright.

The OP wasn't giving out about the hunting, instead giving out about the lack of concideration for others in the park. (If a car is parked outside a forest I presume a person/people are in there.) And then this thread is formed with the title animal lovers and you start bashing the work EGAR does. Get a grip and close the thread.

lightening

BryanL wrote: »

Torn apart? urban bloody myths.

You have lived a sheltered life obviously. Its an urban and rural reality I am afraid. I myself had a Staffie that was used for fighting. She had a missing ear, part of her lip was missing and she had massive scarring. Torn apart...

BryanL wrote: »

These people makes their living from the whole "animal creulty circus"

Fairly miserable living if you ask me! Regarding your dog going missing, get him microchipped, that will sort out the traceability of your dog.

lightening

Trojan911 wrote: »

Are you an official spokesperson for this orgaisation? Allowing continued suffering is in itself cruelty in my opinion. Still a good thing?

I'm not an official spokesperson.

I don't think any of the dogs suffers because of EGAR or other rescue centre. I reckon they ease the suffering of injured dogs. You should give a donation towards the vet bills if your are that worried about them.

Sparks

I think some cross posting is in order here before people run straight off the deep end.

Since I'm being quoted, if indirectly, might I point out that the OP's post doesn't exactly constitute informed opinion on some technical points? For example, what sort of camoflage were the hunters wearing? Was it military surplus DRM or was it deer hunter camoflage? Where exactly were the shots fired and in what direction? What round was in use (and thus, what was the extent of the danger area)? How many signs were put up in the area (was a survey carried out to find out if all access routes to the area had the same sign seen by the OP?). Had the sign been mounted in a more visible location and then slipped, or was it just casually thrown up against the fence by the hunters (and who saw this happening)?

Because what the OP is basicly doing is accusing the hunters involved of breaching the firearms act and recklessly discharging a firearm, which is a criminal offence carrying maximum sentences of a fine of 7,000 euro and five years imprisonment. So it's important to get the details right, especially if they're going to pursue this in the courts...

Not to mention that the number of incidents where the special branch have been called in to deal with "armed men in the back garden", only to find a single hunter a mile from the house firing in the opposite direction, with all his permissions and paperwork correct, is really quite extraordinarily high owing to unfamiliarity with firearms on the part of the general public and an attendant inability to accurately estimate how far away someone is while firing a shot.

Thing is, it's not the lady's character or intent which introduces doubt, but her experience with firearms and hunting. Most people, despite their belief on the matter, are simply not able to determine how far away a shot was fired or in what direction simply from hearing the sound of the gunshot. Most people can tell deerhunter from DRM but not which is which. Most people, believing they've just been shot at, become agitated and thus less accurate observers. It's not in any way a character judgement, it's simply a factual observation of human nature.

It also does not disclude the alternative - that the OP was in fact wholly accurate in her description of the events and that the hunters were wholly in the wrong. It's just that it's not possible to determine whether or not they should be spending the next five years in jail based on one post on an internet forum.

GreeBo wrote:

Well I think what we can safely tell from the OP

I believe you may have completely missed my point that we cannot safely tell from the OP where the shots were fired from or where they were fired to with any degree of accuracy. Obviously they were within earshot, but you can hear a centrefire rifle from a very long distance indeed. We can't tell from the OP if the hunters did indeed hear her original shout, or if the timing of their appearance was merely coincidental (fire a shot while hunting and every animal in earshot will run, so a hunting trip that ends on firing a single shot wouldn't be unheard of). We also don't know exactly how long it was between the shot and the appearance of the hunters, and perhaps most tellingly given that noone's mentioned it by now, we don't know if these were the hunters who fired the shot the OP heard. For all we know, there was someone hunting a mile away, and that was the shot heard.

And again, none of this doubt is caused in any way by the OP's character, intent or honesty; but by human nature and the general low levels of experience with firearms that the vast majority of Irish people have; nor is it to say that the opposite wasn't the case.

And whether or not the OP was given a fright is not in doubt; whether or not that fright was well-founded is what cannot be determined from her post. That lack of certainty is the point here.

Trojan911

fits wrote: »

You misunderstand.

No, I don't.

fits wrote: »

If the dog is suffering or in pain, of course they will pts.

I know that, but lightening says different. The question was directed to the poster "lightening".

"They have a strict no kill policy on the breeds they get in. So if they get a Bull Terrier in that has been torn apart by other dogs in a pit, they won't kill it, or the dogs that did it. They give the dogs a good life. Thats a good thing Trojan. Hardly anyone likes killing dogs".

The poster is making representations for EGAR hence the question to lightening "Are you an official spokesperson for this organisation?"

Rew

Closing this before it decends in to a mess I think everyone could do with a bit of education on the subjects they are commenting on, including EGAR but I fear it will just be mud slinging by everyone...