run run run

SUNGOD

as the title says all my training consists of is just running running and more running no gym or weights just road running(got swimming lessons recently so slowly introducing that). i have been running off and on about two years doing the annual fun runs and local jogs but still drinking and eating rubbish , but about six months ago i decided to give it a proper go (sick of busting a gut running twice a week but going drinking/take-away three times a week and just getting fatter.
starting weight was 13 stone im 5,5 and would run about 8k tops
weight now is 10 stone (im still 5,5 no exercise to get taller unfortunetly)
i run between 25 and 50 miles a week including one long run10mile+ and one short fast run 5.2 mile . im running my first marathon in april (connemara) and then cork in june .as i dont have or follow a set plan (just see how i feel and run what i can)i thought a log would be good to record my training and hopefully progress , im going to post honestly about my running and any advice would be welcome.

my best race times are
4 mile in clonmel 24:18
5.2 mile winter league 32:07
10 mile ballycotton 1 hour 19:56

SUNGOD

just to add i dont time my training runs usually only think about times on race days as my training runs can be slow/fast depending how i feel

earlier today i did a slow 5 mile followed by a quick 5 mile

unsure when to add long runs in
most i ever ran was 18 mile (once) just to see if i could very stiff after it as i jumped from regular 10 miles to 18 mile to much of an increase

Odysseus

Welcome, it nice to see other runners here. About your long run how far are you thinking of, it is for an event or just for fun, if its the latter I would suggest signing up for a long distance event it gets you focused. Best of luck with it

BossArky

SUNGOD wrote: »

my best race times are
4 mile in clonmel 24:18

Whereabouts did the race start and finish in Clonmel? When was that?

thirtyfoot

SUNGOD wrote: »

my best race times are
4 mile in clonmel 24:18
5.2 mile winter league 32:07
10 mile ballycotton 1 hour 19:56

Great times on the shorter stuff for someone who runs and trains on instinct(a gift if you can, no need for stopwatches, HRM, just run!). Although a bit more structure could get you running really fast, are you in a club?

SUNGOD

Odysseus wrote: »

Welcome, it nice to see other runners here. About your long run how far are you thinking of, it is for an event or just for fun, if its the latter I would suggest signing up for a long distance event it gets you focused. Best of luck with it

long runs at the moment are usually 10 mile but i do want to get up to 20 before connemara in april

SUNGOD

the race in clonmel was the tony o connell 4 mile on st stephens day just gone started by dunnes? on the waterford road (im from waterford ) and finished by the gashouse bridge? .we registered in the shotokan centre. the course was flat and very fast. really should have started this log 6 months ago cos dont know if i can improve much more on the shorter distances .the ballycotton race was in 2006 so i will definately improve on that this year.
im not in a club but do run regularily with members of an athleteic/triathlon club im going to join the waterford athletic club soon

hunnymonster

have you thought about a structured plan for Connemara? The reason I ask is that there is a world of difference between running 20 miles and 26 miles. Connemara is particularly evil in this respect in that there is a hill in the last few miles so you've got to climb just as you are tiring. It's well worth considering some kind of structure for you training to prepare you properly for this challenge.

SUNGOD

hunnymonster wrote: »

have you thought about a structured plan for Connemara? The reason I ask is that there is a world of difference between running 20 miles and 26 miles. Connemara is particularly evil in this respect in that there is a hill in the last few miles so you've got to climb just as you are tiring. It's well worth considering some kind of structure for you training to prepare you properly for this challenge.

yeah thats really why im starting this log so i can look back on a record of what distance i actually run and how much i need to increase to i'm clueless really about long distance running ,how much to do , when to do them and how gradual to build up. i have read a lot of the other logs and even though i know everyone is differant i have found them very interesting .and like i said any advice would be appreciated.
what would be the max on average someone would run before a marathon i thought 22 miles and only 2/3 times at this distance ,am i way off ?

hunnymonster

Have a look at something like
http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm

This is a marathon training programme for a novice. The thing that (slightly) concerns me is, and I could be wrong, that you appear to just do what you feel like on a particular day, rather than having a plan. With a plan you've more chance of fitting the correct amount of training, long runs, recovery etc into your training.

thirtyfoot

hunnymonster wrote: »

This is a marathon training programme for a novice. .

As a 24 minute 4 miler he could be aiming higher than a novice programme, raising the bar a bit, there could be a more advance one he could try. I agree on the structure, you can have structure but still run free or as Jumbo Elliott put it "Act like a horse, be dumb, just run".

SUNGOD

did 4 mile slow followed by 5 mile steady 3/4 pace yesterday and heading out again later on today. i work a 5 shift job which means i occasionally get a few days off mid week which i prob over train in as i feel i want to maximise my free time when i have it.thanks for the training link i do need a structure for training thats why i entered the marathon firstly as a goal (felt like i was training for nothing)and started this log .even though my short times are good i will still be apprehensive about the marathon distance .there is a 10 miler in dungarvan on the 3rd of feb so i will post that time and see what ye think should give a better indication to a target marathon time.thanks for the replys
have recorded the distance of all my runs so i know what im running and i am setting a distance before i start :today im running 10 miles thats it:its a start

hunnymonster

I mean novice in the sense of not being experienced rather than slow. It can be a bit of a shock to the body when you suddenly tell it to do something it doesn't want to.

there are several race time predictors out there. None of them are brilliant but they do give you something to think about. Maybe plug your numbers into
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=1681
and see what you get!

Racing Flat

Other predictor/calculator links

www.mcmillanrunning.com and go to the calculator

www.runningforfitness.org

With the mcmillan one I am within 10secs of his prediction at everything between 3k and 10miles. Spooky. But he's way off with my 1500/mile and marathon (I'm much faster at the shorter and slower at the longer than he thinks)

SUNGOD

did ten miles earlier today steady enough. i put my times in to a couple of those predictions and got roughly 3 hours if i used my 4 mile time but 3:45 if i used my 10 mile time .like i said the ten mile time was before i started to take it serious so my time in the ten miler on feb 3 should tell me a lot more. must say i find those predictions surreal because after that 4 miler i could not ran another 1/2 mile i put so much into it i know its not as simple as that but i genuinely think i would be doing really well to finish any where near the bigger of the two predictions. 3:45 for a first time marathon sounds great to me .maybe i shouldnt be thinking about times but i would like to be competitive against myself if no one else.
thanks for the links

Racing Flat

SUNGOD wrote: »

did ten miles earlier today steady enough. i put my times in to a couple of those predictions and got roughly 3 hours if i used my 4 mile time but 3:45 if i used my 10 mile time .like i said the ten mile time was before i started to take it serious so my time in the ten miler on feb 3 should tell me a lot more. must say i find those predictions surreal because after that 4 miler i could not ran another 1/2 mile i put so much into it i know its not as simple as that but i genuinely think i would be doing really well to finish any where near the bigger of the two predictions. 3:45 for a first time marathon sounds great to me .maybe i shouldnt be thinking about times but i would like to be competitive against myself if no one else.
thanks for the links

As 10mile is closer to your goal race (marathon) than 4 mile, a 10mile time should be a more accurate indicator of your predicted marathon time than a 4. However your 10mile of just under 80mins is probably not a good injdicator of your current levels of fitness considering your excellent 4 mile time. Ballycotton will be a great indicator. Based on a 24min 4 mile I think you will do about 64-65mins in Ballycotton. Therefore you may be around the 3.10-3.20 mark for the marathon - maybe better.

In my first year I ran in the marathon series in the Phoenix park
5mile 32.42
10mile 67
half marathon 90
Based on this I hoped for a 3.10 marathon and set off at that pace. I slowed a bit the last 3 miles (ie went from 7.20 pace all the way to 22 miles and then slowed to 8.50 pace for the last few) so ended with 3.15.

2nd marathon, marathon series times
5mile 30.18 (I had done 29.57 and 29.58 earlier in year on easier courses)
10mile 65 (bad run though on hard course, ran 61 a few months later)
half marathon 84.30
so I was on for the 3hours! Set off at 6.52 per mile pace but I knew the game was up after 4 miles, struggled all day and ended up with 3.06, gutted because I felt I was fit enough but messed up the training - overdid it in the first half and underdid it second half...always learning. Haven't done one since, was too gutted by the second one, but maybe this autumn.......

So I would say you've potential to go better than 3.45, but Ballycotton will be your best indicator to date.

SUNGOD

ran the winter league earlier ,5.2 mile in 31:46 nearly killed me

thanks for advice RACING FLAT i appreciate your help i hope your right, it makes perfect sense what your saying about the distance/times for marathon predictions , luckily i wont have to wait till ballycotton as im running in a ten miler in dungarvan feb 3 so that should give me a better indication.

back in work tomorrow so not sure how i will train over the weekend but hey thems the breaks

SUNGOD

yeaterday was a rest day and today just did a slow 6 mile followed by a good stretch
i have a 5 mile road race in the morning

SUNGOD

5 mile road race today tough course last mile up hill done it in 31:20

SUNGOD

ten mile run this morning first and last mile slow but middle eight at just about full pace ,food and back to bed for a couple of hours and im going for a very slow five mile tonight

eclectichoney

a ten miler and a five miler in the one day??

*impressive*!

SUNGOD

impressive or madness depending on how ya look at it ,because of my work(5 shifts) when i have days off i try to maximise my training but i do listen to my body if im tired too stiff or too sore i rest ,generally i am all or nothing which can be a bad part of my make up

Racing Flat

SUNGOD wrote: »

ten mile run this morning first and last mile slow but middle eight at just about full pace ,food and back to bed for a couple of hours and im going for a very slow five mile tonight

A hard 10miler and an easy 5 miler in the one day?!?!

That's a tough session day at the best of times but 2 days after a 5mile race on a tough course? This is asking for trouble if you ask me. Having learnt the hard way, it can be very hard to hold yourself back shortly after a race - if you race bad you want to train harder to get back to where you thought you should have been, if you race well you want to train hard to improve further again the next time. But recovery shouldn't be underestimated. My experience of doing this, doing a killer track session on a Tuesday after a race on a Sunday....usually feel like a king on the first few intervals on Tuesday then towards the last few start to feel the race in the legs...and then usually struggle the following weekend, don't seem to have any energy. So now I would always take it easy, just easy running until the Thursday - maybe just swap training days around the week after a race to avoid this energy lag/reduced quality training later on. Some people can get away with constantly battering themselves, but most would tend to get run down I think. So take it easy - as they say don't leave your race on the track/road.

Note - Personally I love when my training partners 'destroy' me on the Tuesday before a weekend race - the further they are ahead of me (I take it a bit handier the few days before a race, cutting quantity or quality of intervals) on Tuesday the more likely I (with my fuller energy stores) am to beat them in the race...

SUNGOD

thanks racing flat ,appreciatted i know your dead right really do have difficulty relaxing and not over training and at the moment everything is grand cos im running well/pain free and feel good when training but i suppose im only one injury away from disaster as i would have major difficulty in resting for a length of time. i am going to try that training link that hunnymonster gave me on the previous page but will go for the intermediate and see how i get on, at times when i feel good and say do 5 miles if im still reasonably fresh i just want to continue for at least another 3/4 till i feel ive trained hard . i know this is wrong and it has more to do with my addictive nature rather then some need to be a super athlete.its something i will just have to try control myself. any way yeah so going to try that programme and anyway i started this log to get a structure to my training and as of yet am still running the same as before

Racing Flat

You're certainly not alone as a runner in being prone to overtraining or having a addictive/competetive personality. But overdo it and get an injury and you'll be gutted if you miss a few weeks. Takes a lot of confidence to 'train less'. You hear of fellows doing massive sessions a few days before a big race - I think this is a sign of insecurity/lack of confidence as it's probably too late at this stage to have any fitness gains so all they may be doing is running energy stores down. But they need to convince themselves that they can actually do 12 400s in 60secs - the fact that they did it the week before isn't enough - they fear they may have lost this fitness so need to test/prove it to themselves. One fellow who apparently never fell into this trap was the New Zealander John Walker, he advocated that speed sessions weren't needed bewteen races in the track season and had the confidence to just jog in between races. I also read about him that he might go out to do 10 300's or something and after 3 he would feel so great he would know he was at the top of his game so he wouldn't bother with the rest of the session - now that's confidence, just knowing you're right!
I suppose it's all about knowing your body and what you can get away with...but as a runner in a club I've seen a fiar people come to the club, improve massively in a few months and so train harder and harder and then they get run down/injured and stop coming to the club..So patience is a virtue in running...

SUNGOD

flu at the moment training suspended

Racing Flat

SUNGOD wrote: »

flu at the moment training suspended

Race followed 2 days later by hard 10 miler and easy 5.....writing on the wall. You just deplete the energy stores in the body so you get run down, immune system is low so you are much more vulnerable to illness. Welcome to overtraining. Can be very frustrating, but learn from it. Rest now, don't go back too soon. When you do go back, if you rest enough, you will have a bounce and feel great. Still loads of time till Ballycotton, so good time to get the flu.

SUNGOD

back running yesterday with a slow 3 mile felt good thank god after the flu and will probably go again tomorrow

SUNGOD

5 mile tonight still getting back into it just trying to be sensible this time,stillabout 6 weeks to ballycotton and 10 to connemara so still plenty of time to build up gradually without killing myself/overtraining

longshanks

do you want a loan of that book totch?

Racing Flat

SUNGOD wrote: »

5 mile tonight still getting back into it just trying to be sensible this time,stillabout 6 weeks to ballycotton and 10 to connemara so still plenty of time to build up gradually without killing myself/overtraining

Alright, back in the saddle. Onwards on upwards.