Big Sam Sacked?!?

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:11pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The top notch managers will be running away from this like a man with the plague was chasing them down the street. You build a reputation based on years and years of experience, why ruin your chances of going to a bigger (which there are quote a few of) and better club? The only man to come out of the club with his reputation enhanced was Keegan, but he still won nothing.

Martin Jol I think is the highest you could hope for, but I can see it being another medicore appointment. Houllier, Shearer, Stuart Pearce, McClaren. Not a chance of Hiddink or Redknapp.

Spurs managed to get Juande Ramos. Are they so different from Newcastle? No.

So anyway, we shall see. People forget this is a different Newcastle to the one Shepherd was running for so long up until this season.

PHB · 10-01-2008 3:16pm

They are much different to Newcastle. They have been consistantly in the top 6 of England for the past 3-4 years. They have as much, if not more money. They have a much much better squad. And their goal isn't to get into the top 6, it's to get into the top 4. They are a level ahead of Newcastle. Not in the long-term, but in the last 5 years.

I think Jol would do well for Newcastle.

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2008 3:17pm

kinaldo wrote: »

Spurs managed to get Juande Ramos. Are they so different from Newcastle? No.

So anyway, we shall see. People forget this is a different Newcastle to the one Shepherd was running for so long up until this season.

Spurs firstly are in London which can be a major selling point to managers. Add to that, Spurs have more global names or big names than Newcastle would have - the likes of Ledley King, Robbie Keane, Didier Zokora, Dimitar Berbatov, Aaron Lennon compared to Smith, Viduka, N'Zogbia.

Overall as a team, Spurs are a better team added to the fact that they don't have a shadow hanging over them like every manager at Newcastle has when they arrive.

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 3:20pm

jose at newcastle? Are you having a laugh?

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:22pm

PHB wrote: »

They are much different to Newcastle. They have been consistantly in the top 6 of England for the past 3-4 years.

So Spurs sacked their most successful manager in Premiership history about 10 games into the season having spent an absolute fortune. Yeah you're right, we can't compete with that.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:26pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Spurs firstly are in London which can be a major selling point to managers. Add to that, Spurs have more global names or big names than Newcastle would have - the likes of Ledley King, Robbie Keane, Didier Zokora, Dimitar Berbatov, Aaron Lennon compared to Smith, Viduka, N'Zogbia.

Overall as a team, Spurs are a better team added to the fact that they don't have a shadow hanging over them like every manager at Newcastle has when they arrive.

Spurs are very much like Newcastle. I find it amusing how highly you seem to rate Zokora. What about Given (some argue the best keeper in the world), Duff (world class at Chelsea), Michael Owen (former European player of the year), Oba Martins (17 goals in his first season), Emre (considered Turkey's best player ever). N'Zogbia is now a French U21 international, Steven Taylor is the England under 21 captain. I could go on and on but then you'd throw names like Huddlestone and Kaboul at me.

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2008 3:27pm

kinaldo wrote: »

So Spurs sacked their most successful manager in Premiership history about 10 games into the season having spent an absolute fortune. Yeah you're right, we can't compete with that.

Much of that was to do with internal fueding rather than performance.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:30pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Much of that was to do with internal fueding rather than performance.

I'm sure being a laughing stock in the relegation zone at that stage was a bit of a factor.

Ironically it was their abysmal performance and defeat at Newcastle of all teams that turned out to be his last league game in charge.

smog · 10-01-2008 3:33pm

Most Toon fans even though an appointment hasn't been made see this as progress and are ready to give Ashley a chance, thats the bottom line and no need to debate this with anyone else, back to the toon thread i go.

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2008 3:33pm

kinaldo wrote: »

Spurs are very much like Newcastle. I find it amusing how highly you seem to rate Zokora. What about Given (some argue the best keeper in the world), Duff (world class at Chelsea), Michael Owen (former European player of the year), Oba Martins (17 goals in his first season), Emre (considered Turkey's best player ever). N'Zogbia is now a French U21 international, Steven Taylor is the England under 21 captain. I could go on and on but then you'd throw names like Huddlestone and Kaboul at me.

Yes, you see most of the players you mentioned - 'formerly' World Class. Duff and Emre the same. Taylor, whilst under 21 captain, IMO is an extremely poor player. Kaboul won't be playing once King returns to fitness and I'd have Huddlestone ahead of Butt or Geremi anyday.

(And Emre is by a long shot not Turkey's best player ever, Hakan Sukur is ahead of him at least.)

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:38pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Yes, you see most of the players you mentioned - 'formerly' World Class. Duff and Emre the same. Taylor, whilst under 21 captain, IMO is an extremely poor player. Kaboul won't be playing once King returns to fitness and I'd have Huddlestone ahead of Butt or Geremi anyday.

(And Emre is by a long shot not Turkey's best player ever, Hakan Sukur is ahead of him at least.)

Emre was a God at Galatasaray. He was hailed the Turkish Maradona at the age of 16 and is still a quality player. Duff has been injured a lot but no reason why he can't be good again. Michael Owen as much as I dislike him will continue to score goals whoever he plays for. And Ledley King is vastly overrated.

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 3:45pm

kinaldo wrote: »

What about Given (some argue the best keeper in the world)

hes good alright. but not the best in the world. hes about as good as reina imo.

kinaldo wrote: »

Duff (world class at Chelsea)

decent player, had a good world cup in 02 but is pretty much over rated and has some very bad footballing habits.

kinaldo wrote: »

Michael Owen (former European player of the year)

hes broken
+ he prefers his horses to newcastle

kinaldo wrote: »

Oba Martins (17 goals in his first season)

good player alright but he tends to go missing when you need him most and hasnt really given us much to talk about thus far this season

kinaldo wrote: »

Emre (considered Turkey's best player ever)

Hakan Şükür
hes a good player and i have a lot of time for him but i feel since he moved to newcastle he hasnt been half as impressive as he was in seira a.

kinaldo wrote: »

N'Zogbia is now a French U21 international
Steven Taylor is the England under 21 captain

under 21's means nowt imo. above average is about the most you can say about it. theres a reason bently didnt really give a sh1t about missing the recent u21 championships.

in all newcastles squad is at about the same level as villa in terms of talent (i dont count owen as he is a time bomb). Villa though are a far better unit and play with so much more style and confidence. is that down to their manager? yes it is. is O Neill a better manager then allardyce? yes, but there is sweet fa in the difference. something has been rotten at newcastle since keegan left. 8 managers in 11 years tells its own story

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 3:53pm

Jazzy wrote: »

good player alright but he tends to go missing when you need him most and hasnt really given us much to talk about thus far this season

Perhaps because Allardyce has mostly been using his as a sub and playing him out if position in his stupid 433 formations. He started Ameobi ahead of him at Derby ffs. We lost that game 1-0 and Ameobi has been frozen out of the squad ever since while Martins is somehow managing to be our top goalscorer with 7.

Limerick Dude · 10-01-2008 3:59pm

And just to let everyone know, Allardyce seem to love playing most of our players out of position.

Martins on the right wing, Nzogbia as left back, Smith in midfield even after he played striker and got motm.

Xavi6 · 10-01-2008 3:59pm

Martins just needs a club to use him properly as the main striker. You'll see what I mean when he signs for us:p

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 4:02pm

martins scored 2 important goals against bolton at the start of the season.

aside from that he got a peno and has scored in a game u were going to win anyway (spurs) and the rest have been scored in games newcastle have lost.
hes good i agree, but hes not world class. theres a reason that no other big clubs were that interested in him when inter decided to sell, if he was really all that - he'd be playing in a CL side

Limerick Dude · 10-01-2008 4:04pm

Jazzy wrote: »

martins scored 2 important goals against bolton at the start of the season.

aside from that he got a peno and has scored in a game u were going to win anyway (spurs) and the rest have been scored in games newcastle have lost.
hes good i agree, but hes not world class. theres a reason that no other big clubs were that interested in him when inter decided to sell, if he was really all that - he'd be playing in a CL side

If hes played as a striker, he scores goals, theres proof of that, he scored 17 last season.

Allardyce didnt seem to get this into his head, he decided to play him on the right in this supporting role bollox, and look how he has performed so far this season.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 4:35pm

Xavi6 wrote: »

Martins just needs a club to use him properly as the main striker. You'll see what I mean when he signs for us:p

Nah, Mourinho will want to turn him into the next Drogba for us.

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 4:37pm

Jose aint an undertaker... doesnt work at graveyards

eirebhoy · 10-01-2008 4:38pm

Emre is easily Newcastle's most technically gifted player, arguably their most creative player (only started 5 games and still set up more goals than anyone else) and doesn't lack intelligence. Sam deserved to be sacked for Emre's lack of game time if nothing else.

Limerick Dude · 10-01-2008 4:38pm

Man it would be so class, to just turn on ssn now and see Mourinho walking into St.James'

I can dream

:D:D:D

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 4:40pm

eirebhoy wrote: »

Emre is easily Newcastle's most technically gifted player, arguably their most creative player (only started 5 games and still set up more goals than anyone else) and doesn't lack intelligence. Sam deserved to be sacked for Emre's lack of game time if nothing else.

It was infuriating alright. Especially having Smith with Butt in midfield. I still have Emre in my fantasy squad because he would often come off the bench and make something happen.

DSB · 10-01-2008 4:44pm

Hahaha I can't believe this lad thinks Mourinho is gonna take the Newcastle job. Hilarious.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 4:46pm

DSB wrote: »

Hahaha I can't believe this lad thinks Mourinho is gonna take the Newcastle job. Hilarious.

Of course I was being deadly serious. It's silly season ok, so QFT!

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 4:46pm

Interesting Stuff

F365 wrote:

* Allardyce's successor will be Newcastle United's eighth full-time manager since 1997.

* Since the resignation of Kevin Keegan almost 11 years ago to the day, Newcastle have employed, including temporary appointments, a total of 11 first-team coaches.

* The average life expectancy of Newcastle managers since 1990 is less than 25 months.

* Take the reigns of Sir Bobby Robson and Kevin Keegan out of the equation and that number falls to 13 months.

* Robson is the only permanent Newcastle manager since Keegan to have been in charge at St James' Park for over 20 months.

* In Robson's first season in charge, Newcastle finished in 11th place. Newcastle's current position in the Premiership table is 11th place.

* Eight Premiership managers have been sacked this season. Excluding Jose Mourinho's Chelski, none of their clubs were above 18th in the league table at the time of their dismissal.

* According to The Times, Portsmouth boss Harry Redknapp is the club's preferred choice as Allardyce's successor because of 'his expansive style of football'. Pompey have failed to score a single goal in their last six home matches in the Premiership.

* Allardyce was sacked just four days after surviving a must-not-lose FA Cup tie at Stoke and a matter of hours after optimistically declaring that a "corner has been turned" in his weekly press conference. Such curious timing has become a hallmark of Newcastle dismissals. Three successive managers were dismissed in the month of August between 1998 and 2004 with Kenny Dalglish sacked after only two matches of the new season and Sir Bobby Robson forced out just a day before the transfer window closed.

* Having been appointed by Newcastle on a three-year deal last summer, Allardyce's dismissal will cost the club approximately £8m in compensation. That sum represents three-quarters of Allardyce's transfer budget last summer.

* On January 31, chairman Chris Mort publicly denounced speculation that the club were contemplating dismissing Allardyce as "tedious". "There is a different name every week and there is just no truth in it," he assured supporters.

* Between them, Michael Owen and Damien Duff started just ten Premiership matches for Allardyce at Newcastle.

* Criticised recently for refusing to follow 'the Newcastle way', Allardyce replied: "But nobody's really turned it round before me, have they? It's 53 years since we won anything."

* Newcastle's last title success was in 1927. They are ranked on Wikipedia as the eighth most successful club in the history of English football.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 4:56pm

Jazzy wrote: »

Interesting Stuff

It's not interesting stuff at all. The points about all our different managers and the costs of paying off Allardyce are totally redundant because we now have a new owner, no longer the incompetent media whore that is Freddie Shepherd, and one who can afford to do whatever he likes.

The point about Robson finishing 11th in his first season is quite funny. We were second bottom after 9 or 10 games when he took over. In his first home game we beat Sheffield Wednesday 8-0. I think we tallied up over 100 goals that season, were unlucky to lose an FAC semi final to a Gus Poyet inspired Chelsea having thrashed Spurs 6-1, and we also beat previous season treble winners 3-0 in the heat of their title race (caretaker Steve Clarke had lost 5-1 at Old Trafford before Robson stepped in).

Really, no comparisons.

Villain · 10-01-2008 4:58pm

Just because Ashley has a billion or two doesn't mean he likes throwing 8 million away, if he did I would have thought Newcastle would have spent a 100 million on transfers already I mean the transfer window is open 10 days!

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 5:01pm

kinaldo wrote: »

It's not interesting stuff at all. The points about all our different managers and the costs of paying off Allardyce are totally redundant because we now have a new owner, no longer the incompetent media whore that is Freddie Shepherd, and one who can afford to do whatever he likes.

yes. instead you now have a chairman who gives in to fan pressure and whos word cant be trusted due to all of his "full backing of the board" nonsense.

kinaldo · 10-01-2008 5:01pm

Villain wrote: »

Just because Ashley has a billion or two doesn't mean he likes throwing 8 million away,

but that he did it speaks volumes about his commitment to turning us around.

Seaneh · 10-01-2008 5:39pm

In fairness Allerdyce has proven himself to be a poor manager.

He has picked some schocking first 11's and his exclusion of Emre and Matrins in recent games is unbelieveable.

He did ok at bolton because he played with 9 men behind the ball lumping it up to Davies and some nippy ****er playing off him.

That would never work with newcastles squad so he has been found out tatically time and time again.

Making Alan Smith vice captian is bad enough but playing him centre mid ahead of somene like Emre is unforgiveable imo.

Sam failed, not the board.

Limerick Dude · 10-01-2008 5:48pm

Seaneh wrote: »

In fairness Allerdyce has proven himself to be a poor manager.

He has picked some schocking first 11's and his exclusion of Emre and Matrins in recent games is unbelieveable.

He did ok at bolton because he played with 9 men behind the ball lumping it up to Davies and some nippy ****er playing off him.

That would never work with newcastles squad so he has been found out tatically time and time again.

Making Alan Smith vice captian is bad enough but playing him centre mid ahead of somene like Emre is unforgiveable imo.

Sam failed, not the board.

Kudos to you!

Seaneh · 10-01-2008 5:56pm

I could get newcastle to a CL place with 3 signings, I honestly believe it.

Pepe LeFrits · 10-01-2008 6:01pm

The Newcastle - Tottenham comparison is a valid one in my opinion.

There is potential to be tapped into at Newcastle, but they need stability at the top and a good manager to achieve it.

GrumPy · 10-01-2008 6:04pm

No wonder this seasons away strip was reduced from €50 to €35 when I picked it up yesterday. I thought it was a genuine bargain :rolleyes:

Unearthly · 10-01-2008 6:06pm

Seaneh wrote: »

I could get newcastle to a CL place with 3 signings, I honestly believe it.

Ronaldo, Fabregas and Torres?

Defence would still let you down;)

Seaneh · 10-01-2008 6:20pm

Actually...

Ambrosini (from Milan) €5-7million

Van Buyten (Bayern) €3-5million

Browne (MAN UTD) 5millionish

Newkies attack is, IMHO as good an any outside the big 4, players like Martins, Owen and Viduka would all make atleast the match day squads of any club in the league.
Smith and Shola Amieboi are both good squad players, if nothing else.

A midfeild of Duff Emre Ambrosini Milner would be as good as any, even if it means duffer is outside the top 4.

A defence of Enrique Browne Van Buyten Geremi is, imho, very solid and would seriously help auld Shay behin them.

It wouldn't be spectacular football mind, but it wouldn't be long ball stuff either.

IMHO Wes Browne is the most under rated defender in the premier league, both as a right full and a centre back he is seriously good.

Van Buyten has been bayrens rock for the last while but seems to have fallen out of favour, and is apparently available for about 5 million, great buy. If I couldn't get him I'd go for Matrin Laursen or Olaf Melberg from Villa as both are running low on the auld contract time and would be available for a fairly low figure.

Ambrosini is one of the best holding midfeilders in europe, and don't get into an arguement about it, it's all personal opinion here, but I honestly believe this, if Milan were unwilling to sell, Albelda is apparently unsettled at Velancia and wouldn't be a bad signing either!

Maybe there are other areas which would need a hand too, another centre mid or full backs, but you'd have a very good starting 11.

Jazzy · 10-01-2008 7:29pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Ambrosini (from Milan) €5-7million

Van Buyten (Bayern) €3-5million

Browne (MAN UTD) 5millionish

with those players that team would not qualify for the CL

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2008 9:04pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Actually...

Ambrosini (from Milan) €5-7million

Van Buyten (Bayern) €3-5million

Browne (MAN UTD) 5millionish

You would be doin very very well to get those three in for as cheap as that. But even at that, I'd love to see us get 5m for Brown off ye. Seeing him week in and week out has proved how average he is.

Newkies attack is, IMHO as good an any outside the big 4, players like Martins, Owen and Viduka would all make atleast the match day squads of any club in the league.

Owen (if he ever gets hit) and Martins are very good players. The other three aren't good enough if Newcastle are trying to break into a top 6 spot.

A midfeild of Duff Emre Ambrosini Milner would be as good as any, even if it means duffer is outside the top 4.

Ambrosini would be miles off the pace in the Premiership. Milner is a 'good' player but no better and Duff has gone backwards since his first season at Chelsea.

A defence of Enrique Browne Van Buyten Geremi is, imho, very solid and would seriously help auld Shay behin them.

Geremi is a poor defender for a start. Two of them you don't own yet.

IMHO Wes Browne is the most under rated defender in the premier league, both as a right full and a centre back he is seriously good.

Not a hope. And that's coming from a United fan. He is seriously suspect.

Albelda is apparently unsettled at Velancia and wouldn't be a bad signing either!

He was decent about 5 years ago. You don't want another one of those.

eirebhoy · 11-01-2008 12:41pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Actually...

Ambrosini (from Milan) €5-7million

Van Buyten (Bayern) €3-5million

Browne (MAN UTD) 5millionish

Van Buyten has been bayrens rock for the last while but seems to have fallen out of favour, and is apparently available for about 5 million, great buy. If I couldn't get him I'd go for Matrin Laursen or Olaf Melberg from Villa as both are running low on the auld contract time and would be available for a fairly low figure.

Celtic are linked with him.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/display.var.1958817.0.4m_for_daniel_to_enter_lions_den.php

Jazzy · 11-01-2008 2:41pm

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3037902,00.html

Gareth Barry believes the never-say-die spirit instilled into the Aston Villa players by manager Martin O'Neill can help them sustain a push for a European spot.

god i love being right.
the expectations arent as great at villa as they are at newcastle so even tho villa didnt have that good a first year under o neill they just let him get on with the job, and look where they are now... competiting for europe and beating chelski. and wat exactly is it toon fans want their club to be doing? the same i should imagine.
but alas, they have got rid of one of the few managers who could actually put a bit of fire up their arses and will now languish in mid table for the next 2-3 years

LOTTOWINNER · 11-01-2008 3:33pm

god i love being right.

Congratulations.

Melion · 11-01-2008 4:22pm

Harry Redknapp wasnt at Pompey training and didnt show up for a press conference either. Think he's nailed on for the newcastle job. Mad bastard IMO

mike65 · 11-01-2008 4:28pm

Nuts, he has a cushy number at Fratton Park and its all going pretty well for him so why risk ending up another basket case?

Mike.

PHB · 11-01-2008 4:30pm

The only reason I can see is that he's been promised a huge huge kitty, huge, and thinks he might be able to take them into the top 4.

~Rebel~ · 11-01-2008 4:35pm

Really hope he doesn't go to toon, i really like Pompy at the moment. They seem a perfect match for each other, and haven't exactly been tight with transfer funds either. Granted he can pretty much spend to his hearts content at Newcastle.

Hope this doesn't signal a mass exodus of the best players from Pompy, the likes of Muntari, Utaka, Krancjar, Distin etc. Pompy themselves aren't terribly far off breaking top4. Very hard team to play against, and if it wasn't for the african nations this year would be pushing all season i suspect

Eirebhoy, your pompy bet could be a bit fcked now!

Jazzy · 11-01-2008 4:35pm

PHB wrote: »

The only reason I can see is that he's been promised a huge huge kitty, huge, and thinks he might be able to take them into the top 4.

thats the only reason he should leave a good side like portsmouth.
ive got a nagging feeling that he wont get the job tho

Villain · 11-01-2008 5:05pm

Melion wrote: »

Harry Redknapp wasnt at Pompey training and didnt show up for a press conference either. Think he's nailed on for the newcastle job. Mad bastard IMO

Link?

Fratton Fred · 11-01-2008 6:30pm

Arry's ego will love all this attention, but I honestly don't think there is anything in it.

Harry lives in Sandbanks and has done for a long time. Why would he want to move to the north east, to a club lower in the league than Pompey? He is very well paid, has money to spend and a team that is going places.

OK, I've seen some mad things happen in football so I won't be too surprised if he goes, but I really can't see it.

Villain · 11-01-2008 6:33pm

I think considering he went from from pompey to Southampton back to pompey he could do anything!

eirebhoy · 11-01-2008 6:44pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Eirebhoy, your pompy bet could be a bit fcked now!

I've given up on that. I can't see them making up 7 points on Man City and staying within 37 points of Arsenal. It's between those 2.

Big Sam Sacked?!?

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