Play to 600 people...

Thomas from Presence

Thanks to everyone for their responses and keep them coming. I've been baby-sitting Korn for the last two days so I'm going to relax a while before I start replying to everyone but do still email me if this interests you as I'll be back on the saddle from Thursday.

Alanthroneus wrote: »

To be honest i didnt get paid when i played in fibbers..... Who the **** cares?

You're band were booked by a promoter so I'd say plea bargain a better deal off him in future as I certainly paid him!

Thomas from Presence

sugarman wrote: »

So whens this whole thing kicking off?.. or has it already started? I for one would play for nothing once theres a decent crowd, i have and will do again, the moneys just a plus for me.. I'd be interested ina slot too but knowhere near ina position to do so at mo..

I hope to start on the 31st. Judging by the volume of responses I'll be able to run this every week from then.

Denalihighway

Apologies for lateness of reply. Very good, worthwhile discussion by the way and I acknowledge this is a good opportunity for new bands. Nothing better than playing to a good crowd and winning them over if you have the goods.

BUT...(sigh..), I disagree bands should so overtly be offered nothing but a pat on the back. I take this view especially within the context of a thread before xmas that some here will remember about the benefits/lackthereof of gig promoters or 'gig brokers' as they were officially renamed! Thomas you were particularly critical (and rightly so) about 'pay to play' and shady door deals and the rest. Thats why I find it hard to accept that Fibbers (especially given the crowds that apprently throng the place) dont offer at something to offset petrol, strings, booze, time off work whatever...

The fact is, no bands, no crowds, no money behind the bar. Fibbers are taking advantage of simple supply and demand - much like bottle of water are sold at 4euro a pop to 'thirsty' festival goers etc. If that thread before xmas was to expose the lack of morals/ethics of the 'pay to play' system or bad 'gig brokers' I just find this attitude a tad hypocritical but in saying all of this its not the worst deal in the world and noone is forced to play, just me 2 cent...

I think one of the saving factors may also be that a good band that cuts its teeth there can then take advantage of paid Fri/Sat night but dont know the exact detail behind this

What they would choose to give bands in return for what essentially guarantees their business would be up to them but I think it should be something nonetheless (why not set up a link with local business to supply strings/sticks/plecs etc?...I dunno). Best o luck with it anyways.

Thomas from Presence

I refer you to my earlier replies.

Highlights are:

Venue already full to capacity without bands. Bands will not impact positively on business if the place is at capacity anyway.
Bands were offering me money to play in front of this audience of 600+ young music digesting rockers.

Instead of taking this money and increasing my own earnings like a gig broker I diverted some of my budget to paying for the soundman and am letting the bands play for free. Compared to similar venues we pay our soundman the most btw. I can't pay the bands without hurting my other nights which is why I did not have gigs on Thursdays before but the demand to pay me was so high that I thought this the most honourable solution.

People pay certain large promoters to be support acts on tours and festivals for exposure. This gig is free and has the same sort of catchment of playing support at a sold out Village or Whelans gig.

If you still think I have been hypocritical with all this in mind and the previous discussions please point out precisely how in the interest of fair play and all that.

Alanthroneus

Thomas from Presence wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their responses and keep them coming. I've been baby-sitting Korn for the last two days so I'm going to relax a while before I start replying to everyone but do still email me if this interests you as I'll be back on the saddle from Thursday.





You're band were booked by a promoter so I'd say plea bargain a better deal off him in future as I certainly paid him!

Meh ive left them now don't care.. But its a good venue to play.. certainly more fun than other bars slightly further down the quays that may or may not sell pizza too!

Denalihighway

Thomas from Presence wrote: »

I refer you to my earlier replies.

Highlights are:

Venue already full to capacity without bands. Bands will not impact positively on business if the place is at capacity anyway.
Bands were offering me money to play in front of this audience of 600+ young music digesting rockers.

Instead of taking this money and increasing my own earnings like a gig broker I diverted some of my budget to paying for the soundman and am letting the bands play for free. Compared to similar venues we pay our soundman the most btw. I can't pay the bands without hurting my other nights which is why I did not have gigs on Thursdays before but the demand to pay me was so high that I thought this the most honourable solution.

People pay certain large promoters to be support acts on tours and festivals for exposure. This gig is free and has the same sort of catchment of playing support at a sold out Village or Whelans gig.

If you still think I have been hypocritical with all this in mind and the previous discussions please point out precisely how in the interest of fair play and all that.

re bands offering to pay: I'm not doubting you but they're can't be many that could afford to do regularly this and I wouldnt suggest it to any band

re foregoing earnings etc: Fair enough - I do acknowledge this

re comparison to a Thursday night at Fibbers to a good support slot:

- If the place is full regardless of bands playing - then a lot are coming for the drinks promo and the craic, while many may well be music fans and well worth playing to, in my opinion it is not safe to assume this has the same merit as playing a group of discerning music fans as a support act before a big-name band.

maybe hyprocritical was too harsh a word. A bit rich maybe. My attitude is still the same, bands should receive some kind of acknowledgement for entertaining this rabid 600+ crowd. If Fibbers can't put their noggins together and figure out a way to do this thats their problem, even if it were to give drinks vouchers to band members (which costs feck all at wholesale price to the place) or providing some token appreciation gifts like strings/plecs/sticks etc by way off a linkage with a local store that could have its name all over it as a result. It would cost the place feck all but it would go a long way.

I'm just making to suggestions in the interest of a happy medium

AndyTheDude

JimiTime wrote: »

The 'good oul days' of bands getting paid to play is still there, its just that they're cover bands!.

Exactly. And that's what really pisses me off.
I had had completely different picture of the Irish music scene in my mind, before I came over here 6 years ago: I thought it's very diverse and vibrant. The reality check was rather painful. Ireland is completely infested with cover/tribute bands and good bands playing original material are rarity here.
Why? JimmyTime has the answer for that.
You are a very musically talented nation and this country has produced many worldwide known artists. Do young, creative Irish musicians have any future here? I really doubt it. They will have to adapt and start playing covers or starve to death.
Just my 2 zlotys, guys.

Denalihighway

I wouldnt be so bleak Andy, most original bands accept it's a struggle and are happy with the reality that playing your stuff won't buy you a house unless you happen to be a ****ing brilliant band with serious success and/or songs like Chasing Cars . I dont think any of us really expect that and we know if we wanted to make an actual living from music we'd play weddings and stuff. I'm not familiar with other scenes - perhaps we shouldnt be happy at all! And I'm not quite old enough to remember the good old days

Although I've been (slightly) critical of Tom's approach at Fibbers I've hopefully also made it obvious that I admire the general approach there in that he's going against the grain compared to most other venues and gig 'brokers' so there's a lifeline for original bands and clever ones will know the people/places to favour.

Pusshead

Packed fibbers ----> good band playing for maximum exposure ----> good gig ----> happy crowd / happy band ----> the crowd wants more ----> band plays paid gig on a friday. :eek:

THOMAS??????? HOW DARE YOU??? I hope you catch dysentery

iamplu

it always baffles me how so many original bands looking to get ahead in the industry from a grass roots level are so hung up about getting paid for gigs.

I think what's being offered here is clear, straight forward - and more than fair. An opportunity to play to a large number of people who could get into what you're doing. Isn't that why we're all in original bands ??????????

I dont know anyone who starts an originals band with the aim of making money from the start. We do it because we love writing and performing our own tunes. If people want to make money from the outset - start a covers band and play weddings.

In my view a band is like any business - when you're starting out and have something to prove - you take any opportunity you can get to get ahead. After time, when you've proven your worth - you can start looking to milk it (especially if the 600 people are there solely to see your band). In the meantime, bands need to put their heads down, stop complaining about not making 50e each and concentrate on getting their name/music out there.

eddie73

Wow this thread is still going strong!!

Having thought about the issue for a while it miht not be all bad for a young band starting out to get exposure like this. But personally I wouldnt do it.

DSB

So many rockstars (in their own minds) in this thread.

Denalihighway

DSB wrote: »

So many rockstars (in their own minds) in this thread.

its a discussion forum - our sincere apologies for participating.

The music scene is a marketplace like anything else and we'd be fools if we didn't haggle a bit. Even if only to play devil's advocate

Nalced_irl

Have been reading through this for a few days without posting but why not eh? I dont see what all the whinging is about. If you play a support tour you will be lucky to get paid enough to cover 50% of your expenses even while being driven by a 1982 bus thats falling apart and staying in hotels that make the Bates Motel in Psycho look like the Raddisson. You still wouldnt get enough to cover the costs. If the band is good enough that even a quarter of a 600 crowd like them and follow them from there, its worth alot more than a few quid. Naturally paid gigs are better, but getting paid €50 and playing to an empty pub is just pointless. You play to 600 people, if 100 of those like your sound, pay into your next gig, buy your CDs etc, i think that would be better than getting a few euro to split between the band. I wouldnt make a habit of playing gigs for free but if its gonna be a packed venue with the possibility of a paid gig afterwards i think it sounds good.

Savman

Can't believe this is still going on. If anyone with half a brain cares to read back over the thread you'll see there has actually been very little criticisms laid at the OP and his Fibbers deal. Pretty much everyone has indicated that if you're a band looking for gigs it would certainly do you no harm to try it on for size.

I don't understand where this vibe is coming from that to ask questions makes us 'rock stars'. It's a discussion board, people discuss stuff.

Rigsby

A point of information please I have never been inside "Fibbers". I've been telling some friends about this thread and they were surprised that "Fibbers" can hold 600 people. Is this really true ?

Cianos

Investing your time and energy for one night for free is worth the long term benefits of more exposure, more , and possibly more paid gigs in the future. Especially if you're just gonna be sitting on your arse that night anyway. You haev to put in the work and get yourself out there even if it means doing some gigs for free at the start.

Of course venues are looking to cut costs and get good value for themselves whenever possible. They're running a business. But at the end of the day it's a good opportunity for a lot of bands imo

Spicy Lauren

iamplu wrote: »

I dont know anyone who starts an originals band with the aim of making money from the start.

I do. Trust me, there are a few out there.

unclebill98

eddie73 wrote: »

Wow this thread is still going strong!!

Having thought about the issue for a while it miht not be all bad for a young band starting out to get exposure like this. But personally I wouldnt do it.

Why would you not do it???

I thought the tread was over...Tom i demand some money for all this

Denalihighway

its not over til the fat lady...(or skinny rock band) sings...in Fibbers...on a Thursday night...to 600+ people

everyone get that?

To all yee folks giving out at us pernickity musicians well I'd say Tom's well pleased with our comprehensive nit-picking at this stage...he's clearly got a decent gig goin on and free PR is hard to come by AND he gets to stick his big oar in as well...and sure who doesnt love that? win win

Stereomaniac

How do we go about playing in Fibber's on a Thursday? We are mad to get in there. We're in The Hub this coming Thursday but perhaps someday I can lose weight and sing to 600 people. Anyway, we are bad with computers here at the Bad Mothers Union so I just said I'd join in on this thread. We are always eager to play new venues and sadly, we have never tamed the Fibber's.

Pat D. Almighty

Does anyone have Tom Brunkard's number? Very importanté