Dogs

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Jack Russell for me.

peasant

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you Peasant, but rather pointing out that the majority of these problems occur due to poor breeding practices, backyard breeders who care nothing for confirmation, hip dysplasia, hip scores or assorted hereditary problems, but care a great deal about making as much money as possible per litter....

... but the main point I am trying to make is that breeders have a responsibility to improve breed standards, not go for the money.

Yeees ...essentially we are in agreement ...but ...:D (there's always a "but") the net has to be cast much wider than that, if you want to encompass all issues that affect dogs' health.

That backyard breeding and puppy farming is bad is a fact and plain to see for almost everyone, but just because you make an "informed choice" and get your purebred dog from a good breeder with all medical checks etc, does by no means guarantee that your dog is healthy. For several reasons:

1) certain breeds are crippled by standard
The Pekingese or English Bulldog are prime examples of this. You can "fine tune" the breed standard as much as you like, you can screen the parents until the cows come home ...those breeds are not healthy by design. They cannot breathe properly ...and if you were to breed them with proper snouts, they wouldn't be a Pekingese or Bulldog anymore.

2) "Pure" breeding limits the gene-pool below a critical level
Look at the amount of breeds these days ...there's zillions of them and all are a variation of the same theme. Take retrievers, for example ...Golden, Labrador (with subdivisions black, chocolate, blond), Flat coated, Curly coated ...etc. all essentiallly the same type of dog with minor differences. But in order to distinguish the breeds from one another, those minor distinguishing features (essentially coat length and colour) become prominent.
Deveations from the standard lead to exclusion and only perfect examples are bred. It is a fact of nature, that within a given population, there only ever are a few "perfect" or "near perfect " examples. These (and their offspring) then get bred over and over and with each other to keep the breed pure. The end result is incest. Dogs that are first and second generation relatives can be found mated in the pedigree of all pure breds. Thus only a certain limited set of genes gets to propagate, all other genes are lost and what's left is what's known as a shallow gene pool.
The results of this can be clearly seen in all of the heredetary diseases that plague almost every breed now (in various degreees of severity)

3) most breeders are breed-blind
They may accept that their beloved breed has "issues" but they are usually too involved to see that doctoring the symptoms will not cure the problem. Hip-scoring, eye-testing, temperament-testing, etc are all very well and well meant ...but all they really do is make the gene pool even smaller. Excluding one heredetary illness opens the back door for another one that was recessive up to now to become dominant ...one problem may go away and onther emerges.
But as long as "pure" breeding continues, as variations are excluded and outside influences (cross breeding) are frowned upon, the circle will continue.


In my opinion, the solution for general dogs' health does not lie with breeders at all ...they got it wrong for the last 150 years and I wouldn't trust them (or their organisations) to offer anything else but variations on the same old theme ...and a repeat of the same old mistakes in a different way.

No ..the solution lies with us "consumers".

We must refuse to buy defective dogs.
We can start by refusing to buy breeds that are obviously sick ...like the Pekingese or the Bulldog.
We must then change our view of dogs. We should no longer demand a dog that looks exactly so and does exactly that, but a dog that is healthy and sound, regardless of what it looks like or what colour or length of coat it has.

Essentially, this means the end of all breeds. There would only be big, middle and small dogs, with varying coats and colours ...subdivided into hunters, companions or guardians ...kinda like it used to be, before this breed nonsense started.


If we make this change NOW, instead of waiting for another decade or two, chances are that there are enough healthy dogs left to achieve this ...wait for too long, and dogs will have been bred to extinction.

Princess J

fatmammycat wrote: »

I can't comment on the other dogs photographed, but I know a girl who owns a basset, he's almost 12 and he's one of the most robust healthiest dogs I've ever laid eyes on. No arthritis, rambles with her about 3 to 5k a day, he's an easy going, radiator hogging cheese gourmand. Lovely old chap. Bred properly bassets make very sound dogs. The problems seem to occur when people breed two poor examples of the breed together.All pure bred dogs are designed. We bred them for temperament, for disposition, build, stamina, work, soft mouth, numerous reasons. But that's no reason to dismiss them as inferior to what nature intended. A good breeder will look for the best characteristics of the breed standard and work to improve the blood line, not weaken it.

Have to say I totally agree with you here. I bought a Bassett Hound two years ago. I have had mongrels and cross breeds in that past and it wasn't that I wanted a 'designer' dog this time round, just that I've always loved the look of a Bassett. Having read up on the them I knew one would suit me and my lifestyle. I thought about breeding her, but I'm not a breeder and felt unless I was going to breed her to strengthen her line, I shouldn't do it. In other words, I should only do it if I had the commitment not to make a half arsed job of it! But I don't regret the money I spent on her - I love her to bits and I take very good care of her so she has no health problems. She was just the right dog for me
Now have a beagle pup as well and he's gorgeous too, but I like labradors as well. Would love a St Bernard, but don't have the energy for one so know it wouldn't be fair!

~Thalia~

Favourite would have to be working line German Shepherd. HAndsome as hell

andrawolf

I love huskies they are the most loveable dog and I also love jack russells the are so loyal. come see my husky pup he is gettin big
http://www.siberianhuskyni.com any one that lives in Ireland or Northern with huskies send me your pics of your dogs to post on the site.:D:D:D:D:D

deaddonkey

~Thalia~ wrote: »

Favourite would have to be working line German Shepherd. HAndsome as hell

yep, me too, german shepherds are the dog for me.

~Thalia~

deaddonkey wrote: »

yep, me too, german shepherds are the dog for me.

Here is mine just out of the bath this evening!

fatmammycat

He's beautiful! And so clean.

BeerWolf

I don't have favoritism in breeds - all dogs have their qualities and personalities.

I currently have a tibetan terrier, found her as a stray wondering down the road. She's quite a good dog but incredibly submissive, cowers easily and doesn't seem to like men. Chances are she ran off from some previous abusive owner. :mad:

But when you play with her she's a joy.


I used to have 3 other dogs, to all of which have passed away the past few years due to age.

Duke


(Irish Red Setter)

George


(Springer Spaniel)

And Cedric, a Great Dane (Don't have any pictures of him on this comp curiously )

All lovely dogs.

~Thalia~

fatmammycat wrote: »

He's beautiful! And so clean.

Thanks he is a she and the clean won't last too long!!

lurchin along

Gonna throw caution to the winds and chuck in my 2 cents worth to the debate between peasant and fatmammycat.
The backyard breeders aren't a PATCH on some of the most 'respected' show breeders.
I own pedigree dogs and every 5 years or so breed a litter.I usually keep all the pups as the purpose is not just to keep my bloodline going but also to top up the collection.
One of my foundation bitches came from the most 'famous' breeders around at the time.She's been 'Top Breeder' several times and owned and bred many notable show champions.
The problem didn't show up in the first generation from this bitch but in the second:Von Willdebrands Syndrome-the canine equivalent of haemophilia.That line was IMMEDIATELY removed from my breeding programme(tho I still have two of the affected dogs-both elderly now and neutered)and next I got on the phone to tell the original breeder what had happened.She hung up on me so fast it stung my ear.
So I got on the blower again to as many as I knew who also owned breeding stock from that line.Most of them-breeding a good deal more prolifically than me-already knew.
The massive wall of indifference was what gave me the bruises that time.
Improving their breed?Don't think so.
There are two top winning bloodlines in that breed/They've scooped the major championships for years.
One line has VWS and the other a nasty little condition called Sudden Death Syndrome(perfectly healthy seeming dog drops dead without warning between 2 and 4 years old.)Both conditions are hereditary.
The show people don't care.By then the dog's a Champion and has had at least one litter...
I prefer pure breds to their arguably superior noble cousins the cross breeds but the iniquities perpetrated on them by 'show breeders' are unspeakable.
All for the dubious glory of a rosette.

sillymoo

Humans can get Von Willdebrands Syndrome too. Just a little thought!!!!!

macshadow

lurchin along wrote: »

Gonna throw caution to the winds and chuck in my 2 cents worth to the debate between peasant and fatmammycat.
The backyard breeders aren't a PATCH on some of the most 'respected' show breeders.
I own pedigree dogs and every 5 years or so breed a litter.I usually keep all the pups as the purpose is not just to keep my bloodline going but also to top up the collection.
One of my foundation bitches came from the most 'famous' breeders around at the time.She's been 'Top Breeder' several times and owned and bred many notable show champions.
The problem didn't show up in the first generation from this bitch but in the second:Von Willdebrands Syndrome-the canine equivalent of haemophilia.That line was IMMEDIATELY removed from my breeding programme(tho I still have two of the affected dogs-both elderly now and neutered)and next I got on the phone to tell the original breeder what had happened.She hung up on me so fast it stung my ear.
So I got on the blower again to as many as I knew who also owned breeding stock from that line.Most of them-breeding a good deal more prolifically than me-already knew.
The massive wall of indifference was what gave me the bruises that time.
Improving their breed?Don't think so.
There are two top winning bloodlines in that breed/They've scooped the major championships for years.
One line has VWS and the other a nasty little condition called Sudden Death Syndrome(perfectly healthy seeming dog drops dead without warning between 2 and 4 years old.)Both conditions are hereditary.
The show people don't care.By then the dog's a Champion and has had at least one litter...
I prefer pure breds to their arguably superior noble cousins the cross breeds but the iniquities perpetrated on them by 'show breeders' are unspeakable.
All for the dubious glory of a rosette.

Is this passed on through the female only? like in humans.

sillymoo

In humans it is passed on either from the male or female. Its autosomal rather than X-linked inheritance ie not linked to the sex genes. Same in dogs as far as I know.

GA361

OK.Since I cant seem to edit the thread,I'm changing it here-

-Which is your favourite breed of Dog?

fatmammycat

French Bulldogs and Doberman Pincher. I can't choose between them. I adore them both.

Invincible

I think the German short-haired pointer is a fabulous breed,both in looks and intelligence.

Country-Bumpkin

My favourite is the German Short-Haired Pointer, the most affectionate dog in my house!! And also a great working dog.

Followed by the Rottweiler....the biggest softie and so clever!

Next it would have to be my little Jacker....the most adorable, cheekiest dog ever!!!

(Have tried to put up photos but am doing something wrong. Maybe someone could enlighten me via PM?)

the rook nook

Golden retrievers are my favourite.
Loyal,Affectionate dogs.

GA361

Not my dog by the way/

the rook nook

Yeah,he doo's be a nice dog alright.I's doo's be liking goldens,labses,setterses and terriorses.They's all doo's be nice doggies.

wyk

I love Borzoi's, too. Lovely lovely hounds. Someday I might bring myself to take one in. But I am still on my Greyhound rescue binge.

WYK

fits wrote: »

I like most types. Everyone knows I have a weakness for the sighthounds anyway, but I wouldnt mind a more trainable type of dog in the future too.

I love these guys

LovelyTom

My favourite breed is the APBT.

So misunderstood but such great companions.

I can't wait to finally move out and get one.

princess-lala

King charles anyday:D