Weekend Premier League Matches

Sizzler · 13-01-2008 3:21pm

PHB wrote: »

Richardson finally doing what he can, imo he will be Keanes best signing.

Ah now come on, McShane was his best signing

He is in his rightful place today. The bench !

eirebhoy · 13-01-2008 3:23pm

PHB wrote: »

Richardson finally doing what he can, imo he will be Keanes best signing.

You've always rated him anyway. Very good player alright but hasn't really been involved other than his goals. Very attacking lineup by Keane.

Jones

Murphy

Stokes
---Richardson---Miller---Whitehead---

With Stokes and Murphy switching half way through the first half. Stokes is playing well. I'm disappointed he was ruled offside when he was clearly on even a second after the pass was played. Miller playing well too. The Keane influence is doing him good.

As for McShane - Probably Sunderland's best player over their last 2 premiership games going by reports. He's dropped because Keane is certainly not going to go with the same defence that conceded 3 at home to Wigan and Sunderland had to make a change after a poor season so far.

Unearthly · 13-01-2008 3:25pm

PHB wrote: »

Richardson finally doing what he can, imo he will be Keanes best signing.

I would give it to Jones at the moment although Richardson was injured so didn't have much games to make an impact.

PHB · 13-01-2008 3:26pm

I think he's like Pennant, just a couple of years behind him in development. Not good enough for a top 4 side, but on form is a solid premiership player.

Stokes has still yet to live up to his potential, I think Keane is trying to get his mindset right, and is beginning to succedd.

eirebhoy · 13-01-2008 3:28pm

PHB wrote: »

Stokes has still yet to live up to his potential, I think Keane is trying to get his mindset right, and is beginning to succedd.

If only he'd play him up front. Scored 2 and hit the post against Newcastle's reserves this week. He partnered Connolly up front and Miller set up both goals. I just don't understand it because this is the first time I've actually been impressed with him out wide. He made his name playing pretty much as a lone striker playing for the through ball. imo he's a victim of his own natural skill tbh. I do wish he was as technically gifted as Inzaghi.

homerjay2005 · 13-01-2008 3:29pm

2 great finishes too from richardson. jones got passed campbell away too easily for the first goal.

PHB · 13-01-2008 3:30pm

Well I would say Keane is doing what Fergie did to Rooney. Developing his all round player. Stokes looks a natural finisher, but thats not enough. Rooney was played left wing a lot in order to develop his all round play, and it's really paying off. Keane might be doing the same thing.

Xavi6 · 13-01-2008 3:30pm

DaveMcG wrote: »

Anyone got a stream for the Sunderland match?

Couple on Rojadirecta. Haven't tried them though. Nothing on TVU player

Guy:Incognito · 13-01-2008 4:08pm

PHB wrote: »

A. Jump over it, avoid the contact, and miss the chance
.

The only way thats the case normally is if the player got too heavy a touch anyway and isnt gettign the ball. They then choose to go down.

@Bazmo, I've never said it. I honestly dont want Liverpool winning games from scoring after a dive. I dont feel cheating should be encouraged and dont feel satisfaction from watchign people winnign by it, my own team included.

I've been kicked countelss times playing football and can honestly say I've never even gone down easy if I could possibly stay up.

PHB · 13-01-2008 4:22pm

The only way thats the case normally is if the player got too heavy a touch anyway and isnt gettign the ball. They then choose to go down.

That happens sometimes, but not all the times.

Stekelly, are you saying you didn't celebrate the Champions League final win? Or you didnt' celebrate the goal against Villa this season? I doubt that very much.

Guy:Incognito · 13-01-2008 4:31pm

PHB wrote: »

That happens sometimes, but not all the times.

Stekelly, are you saying you didn't celebrate the Champions League final win? Or you didnt' celebrate the goal against Villa this season? I doubt that very much.

TBH the Villa one there was contact enough for it not to be a dive, even though it wasnt a dive because he didnt go down. Mellgerg (?) put his leg across Gerrards and blocked him enough that he could retrieve the ball because there was a Villa player close enough to get to it then.

The CL final , at the time I only saw it in real time and assumed there was more contact. Seeing it afterwards I think he was clipped a bit but could have maybe (note the maybe) stayed up. If he was 100% honest and said it was a dive then I dotn agree with it.

The fact that they are debateable makes them a bit different to a lot of Ronaldos one and the like of the Viera one where Didi had pulled his leg back,meanign Viera never got within about a foot of his leg.

On another note, Any update on the Sunderland score Des?:D

_blank_ · 13-01-2008 4:36pm

Stekelly wrote: »

On another note, Any update on the Sunderland score Des?:D

we need a "flipping the bird" smiley...:)

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 4:51pm

Sizzler wrote: »

No problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVb2gbMtN3I

none are from this year. and again, i have not doubted that Gerrard has gone down easy at times in the past.

but at the end of the day, he dives nowhere near as much as c. ronaldo.

do you disagree? honestly

homerjay2005 · 13-01-2008 5:01pm

here is one of torres having a problem with gravity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LKFIU9wPl0&feature=related

all players are the same. its not diving, its called going down away too easily.

herbieflowers · 13-01-2008 5:04pm

good win for Sunderland, then

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 5:13pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is one of torres having a problem with gravity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LKFIU9wPl0&feature=related

all players are the same. its not diving, its called going down away too easily.

Sorry but Rio is quite clearly shoving nando there?!?!

Ps. Love the way Nando isnt afraid of anyone.

Still waiting for any Utd fans to say that Gerrard dives anywhere near as much as Ronaldo????

yea didnt think so

herbieflowers · 13-01-2008 5:14pm

gotta love the petty Utd / Pool squabbling!

_blank_ · 13-01-2008 5:15pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sorry but Rio is quite clearly shoving nando there?!?!

It's six of one, half dozen of t'other imo, and Torres goes to ground to look for a penalty.

Perfectly entitled to, there was contact, but he lost his balance a little bit too easliy.

estebancambias · 13-01-2008 5:22pm

Oh God, what the hell is this match doing? What a boring game.

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 5:23pm

DesF wrote: »

It's six of one, half dozen of t'other imo

Agreed, but its a downright awful example of a dive

homerjay2005 · 13-01-2008 5:26pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Still waiting for any Utd fans to say that Gerrard dives anywhere near as much as Ronaldo????

yea didnt think so

can anybody on here not see, that diving and going down too easily are too totally different things?? going down with minimal contact is not cheating. its frustrating for a defender and certanly not a manly thing to do, but there is nothing actually wrong with it. i aint seen a proper dive in ages in the premiership. im trying to think.....

re your comments: well if u read my posts, i say both players are not divers. ronaldo takes alot of punishment during games, sometimes he acts like a wimp and a sissy, but he always gets up (eventually!) and plays on.

the reason i defend ronaldo is cos i was at 2 away games last season, where ronaldo was getting torrid abuse after the WC. now, some players would shy away from things a bit but ronaldo kept demanding the ball and kept driving at them. eventually, the home fans shut up cos they realised that it wasnt working and they knew it was driving him on. that is what made ronaldo, shutting those "fans" up.

_blank_ · 13-01-2008 5:28pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

shutting those "fans" up.

You say that as if giving opposition players stick is a bad thing :rolleyes:

herbieflowers · 13-01-2008 5:29pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ronaldo kept demanding the ball and kept driving at them

don't you mean diving at them?

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 5:29pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

re your comments: well if u read my posts, i say both players are not divers.

One word answer....

are you saying ronaldo is not a diver?

kryogen · 13-01-2008 5:35pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

none are from this year. and again, i have not doubted that Gerrard has gone down easy at times in the past.

but at the end of the day, he dives nowhere near as much as c. ronaldo.

do you disagree? honestly

about that vid, its good, but this one is a bit longer so ill throw it in here for the added exclamation point, there is a difference between them in fairness, i dont think ive ever heard ronaldo make statements about how disgusted he is by divers, unlike the star of this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-hXYn2pA0&feature=related

homerjay2005 · 13-01-2008 5:42pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

One word answer....

are you saying ronaldo is not a diver?

since when was boards about one word discussions then? if you want to be childish like that, then wat do you think i would say? im hardly going to say NO am i?!! i clearly said, that gerrard and ronaldo are not divers..and i never suggested that torres dived in that video either. its an example of players going down too easily. its not called cheating or diving.

jameshayes · 13-01-2008 5:48pm

Whats the story with the bolton game? Either team look like they will win it?

ROCKMAN · 13-01-2008 5:50pm

bolton 1-0
Nolan Great finish

jameshayes · 13-01-2008 5:53pm

Do they look like they can hold the lead?

estebancambias · 13-01-2008 5:55pm

If Zidane scored that goal, it would be voted goal of the century. I don't think Nolan is a good player, very average, but what a finish.

Dave! · 13-01-2008 5:58pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Still waiting for any Utd fans to say that Gerrard dives anywhere near as much as Ronaldo????

yea didnt think so

What's your point? Of course Ronaldo dives, as does Gerrard. If someone kills 20 people and someone else kills 10 people, they're both scumbag murderers. The former is no doubt "more" of a murderer than the latter, but fact is, they're both scumbags who should not be trusted and should be banged up in jail for the rest of their lives.

Gerrard and Ronaldo both dive, and both cheat. If Ronaldo dives once in every irrelevent match, and Gerrard dives once, in the Champions League final, to get a peno which wins the game -- who's worse?

They both show that they have no trouble with hitting the deck when it's going to benefit them. Both cheaters.

estebancambias · 13-01-2008 6:02pm

''Gerrard and Ronaldo both dive, and both cheat. If Ronaldo dives once in every irrelevent match, and Gerrard dives once, in the Champions League final, to get a peno which wins the game -- who's worse?''

Someone buy this man a pair of jeans where they're dong Bargains in town...

Dave! · 13-01-2008 6:04pm

estebancambias wrote: »

''Gerrard and Ronaldo both dive, and both cheat. If Ronaldo dives once in every irrelevent match, and Gerrard dives once, in the Champions League final, to get a peno which wins the game -- who's worse?''

Someone buy this man a pair of jeans where they're dong Bargains in town...

lol...

I hear Motion Picture have a decent sale on

Villain · 13-01-2008 6:56pm

I think the biggest problem with Ronaldo is his inability to take a tackle, in every match he plays you will see players tackling him and get the ball cleanly and Ronaldo jumps up and down waving his arms, as a commentator said last week its like he thinks people aren't allow tackle him, he moans and trys to cheat more than any other player in the Premier league and I honestly think ANY person that watches the Premier league weekly knows that. It doesn't take away from his ability as he is probably the best player in the League (after a fit Drogba) but it does take away from his image which is a shame imo.

BaZmO* · 13-01-2008 7:13pm

Right so we're all agreed, if the player dives and he's from th team that you support it's justified and he's not a cheat. However, if the player is from an opposing team, especially a team where there's a history of rivalry, well then he's a cheating scumbag. grand, glad that's sorted.

Well done Sunderland, good win today considering Pompey's away form this season. And Makems almost saved me in th cup but not quite, ah well there's always next year!!!

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 7:41pm

I dont for a second buy that the frequency of ones offences in regards to diving have no baring on the matter.

For example, almost every player will commit fouls, and a couple in their time, have made bad bad tackles (gerrard,Scholes), but yet people dispise the likes of Ben Thatcher, Michael Brown, Diouf etc because they consistantly bring the game into disrepute with their behaviour on the field.

Similarly, people dive, its the people that constantly do this that should be criticised, Ronaldo, Drogba, Deco et all. Not the people who "go down easily" occassionally, as much as i dont like it, virtually every player in the PL does that. Christ, Roy Keane was sent of for diving against Blackburn before, yet i'd hardly call him a diver

To say i am slating Ronaldo because he plays for utd is really just a lazy criticism. I am on record here as saying, at this moment, he is the best player in the world.

BaZmO* · 13-01-2008 7:46pm

So it's just a coincidence that he's from the team that are your most bitter rivals? And it's also a coincidence that you're defending a player from your own team?

Villain · 13-01-2008 8:06pm

I went mad here when Gerrard dived against Villa but he doesn't do it every week like Ronaldo and as I have said many times here but no-one seems to address the point, its more about the way Ronaldo moans every time he gets tackled Gerrard does dive but can take a tackle Ronaldo can't without moaning.

I've also criticised Ashley Young on here for diving and said he should have been docked a weeks wages for it.

Everyone is avoiding the point about the way Ronaldo moans when tackled and throws the hands up the air etc, I think the silence speaks volumes as it can't be defended.

PHB · 13-01-2008 8:29pm

Ronaldo gets pissed off because he gets so little protection from refs. It's the same for wingers in general, refs in England don't protect them enough.

Villain · 13-01-2008 8:35pm

Thats a joke in fairness PHB Ronaldo jumps up and down like a sissy after perfect clean tackles more than any other player, as I said I actually think its unlucky he can't cut that side of his game out as I think fans from every team would be more likely to applaud his obvious top class ability. I think Drogba is a good example when he came first he was throwing himself around like an idiot but has cut a lot of that out now and he gets praised a lot more for his talent.

Guy:Incognito · 13-01-2008 8:36pm

PHB wrote: »

Ronaldo gets pissed off because he gets so little protection from refs. It's the same for wingers in general, refs in England don't protect them enough.

They go hand in hand though. Ref's know he dives a lot, so are going to be less inclined to give him things because it is hard to determine whats a foul and what isnt. so he's only likely to get teh real obvious things.

Boy who cried wolf.

Attractive Nun · 13-01-2008 9:11pm

As a big big fan of Ronaldo, I do wish he would cut out some of the things that are being discussed here. However, I agree that there is a difference between 'diving' and 'going down easy' (hehe). Diving is when you pretend there was a foul committed against you, when in reality there was no contact at all. I haven't seen Ronaldo do this all season, I haven't seen anyone in the PL do that this year - though I haven't been able to watch too many matches this season. What Ronaldo, and most players - but Ronaldo more that most, yes mr alan including Gerrard - does is exaggerate. He goes down when he doesn't need to, when he could stay on his feet and keep possession. Often, he will look to draw this sort of contact too. This is not diving. I will say it clearly - with, probably, a few exceptions, Ronaldo is no longer a diver.

Do I like what he does instead? Not really, it's not particularly 'honest' and it's always nice to watch players like Rooney battling through four and five fouls and trying to stay on his feet, but at the same time he is perfectly entitled to do this imo. The sort of contact that makes him go down usually are fouls, very small fouls, but fouls nonetheless. Like PHB said, the ref wouldn't give them if Ronaldo didn't claim them, and more often than not he's better off with the freekick - in fact, I'd be surprised if SAF doesn't encourage him to go down when fouled. In reality, in fact, although it's always nice for the fans to see players playing on through fouls, it would probably be better for the team - and the prospect of future injuries - if they just went down.

Having said all that, there is a grey area in the 'is he/is he not a diver' debate for me. He does occasionally go down when there has been contact made and claim a foul, when the opposition player fairly wins the ball. Clearly, to me, this is not diving - he does believe himself to have been fouled, or at least not given protection from the ref. However, the way he complains and sits on the ground sulking for a few seconds strikes me as quite petulant. I think he has a valid complaint about not being given protection sometimes, and I can understand that it might be frustrating, but sometimes I just wanna say to him, 'just get over it'.

What I can't stand for is how people, on the other hand, villify him for the above. Mr alan yesterday called him 'a disgrace of a human being' I believe. To them I also say, get over it.

Peyton Manning · 13-01-2008 9:14pm

Mr Alan will use whatever examples back up his opinion, and intentionally leave out examples of Ronaldo's charity work and selfless acts. To call him 'a disgrace of a human being' is just bitterness.

Mr Alan · 13-01-2008 9:15pm

Archimedes wrote: »

Mr Alan will use whatever examples back up his opinion, and intentionally leave out examples of Ronaldo's charity work and selfless acts. To call him 'a disgrace of a human being' is just bitterness.

Obviously when i call him a disgrace of a human being, i mean on the football pitch.

I'm sure i could point out the charity work Diouf does, but that doesnt mean he is a pleasant person on and around the football pitch.

Sizzler · 13-01-2008 9:17pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

none are from this year. .

LOL. Dont be so pedantic

Guy:Incognito · 13-01-2008 9:17pm

Attractive Nun wrote: »

I haven't seen Ronaldo do this all season, I haven't seen anyone in the PL do that this year - though I haven't been able to watch too many matches this season. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFjn2oF2OPc

First one that came to mind.

There may have been contact (not sure but only a sid eview could show that) but if there was its because ronaldo flicks his leg across into the debry player.

Peyton Manning · 13-01-2008 9:17pm

Well then honestly, I think you could have phrased it far better than you did. 'A disgrace of a human being' is a bit over the top.

Sizzler · 13-01-2008 9:23pm

Stekelly wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFjn2oF2OPc

First one that came to mind.

There may have been contact (not sure but only a sid eview could show that) but if there was its because ronaldo flicks his leg across into the debry player.

This scouse fan knows his captain only too well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNE3opjOZQ&feature=related

Attractive Nun · 13-01-2008 9:24pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Obviously when i call him a disgrace of a human being, i mean on the football pitch.

Yeah, but it's still ridiculously harsh.

Like, maybe it's just me, but if I see footballer X foul footballer Y, I think footballer Y immediately has the moral highground. If he decides that he wants to get a freekick from this foul, so goes to gound (because that's the only way really to get a freekick), then fair enough. I would prefer if he kept going if he could, but hey no big deal. Now if footballer X and his supporters start calling footballer Y a diver and a disgrace of a human being, my opinion of them starts to go down. Essentially what they are asking for is players to be allowed to foul other players a little bit (so long as they are not forced to the ground it's ok?), because it's a 'man's game'. To me, a foul is a foul is a foul.

Peyton Manning · 13-01-2008 9:26pm

Ahem, the new kid Torres aint too saintly when it comes to this sort of thing either...

Weekend Premier League Matches

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