Football-Natural Talent?

estebancambias

This sort of came up in the Man Utd thread, so I just wanted to see what the rest of you think.

Personally I don't think so in the sense that not one person is born a better footballer in its literal sense, however I do think that the magical players(the ones like Maradona, Ronaldo Kaka, Ronaldinho, Rooney) have something which makes them stand out.

In reality though I think it is 1.) Where your from. There is a reason why a greater amount of players from poor or working class places make it. This is why they make such a big deal about Kaka, as he is a rich Brazilian.

2.)How early you start. Many footballers were playing football since very young. Oh and obviously how much you play. This sort of connects with where your from, as the chances of more kids exists in poor areas.

shane86

Rubbish Bill.

This reminds me of a conversation between two of the white prison staff on the tv show Oz when they were playing basketball. They remarked that

a- The worst player in the NBA is probably some white American dude

b- In order to be the worst white American player, you still have to be 10 times better than the millions of other whites playin it to even get a look in with the black and 6.5 ft ex Soviet imported players

I think some races are just better at certain sports. Brazillians seem naturally talented. People of African descent seem to have it if the training is right (compare most European national teams that are well trained who have a larger proportion of black players, yet apart from Nigeria Afircan teams generally never cause a huge upset on the international scene)

As for working class, Id agree that a desire for money helps, but look at rugby. Mostly upper class, although prof rugby doesnt pay near as much granted. Really i think a persistent parent helps, someone who convinces the kid this is what they need. After all, yiv got the likes of Frank Lampard and a few other footallers sons who hardly grew up poor, but their sport minded dads pushed them on.

And as for "anyone can be a footballer", not always. Im sure Alex Ferguson gave his son enough encouragement and support as he gives to the already talented lads on his team, yet in the end he never could cut it in the prem. Not everyone can be. Just like the way in school I could read since before I started school and did great at English, yet algebraic maths completely baffled me and I got a D3. Then I knew lads who could only half read yet got high Bs in hinours maths, just differently wired minds. Sport is just the same.

_blank_

I grew up playing football every single day on a field near my house, outside on the road, in the back garden with my da and brother, in the park with my mother being the goalie (still do that sometimes). I'm no rich boy either, my da works for the corpo.

I couldn't kick snow off a rope, truth be told.

Fact is this, either you can control a ball, lay it off, shoot on site, dribble around players, nutmeg fellas, tackle fearlessly etc etc, or you can't.

Now, some people with this talent can be nurtured and thought how to use their talent, some people just know they are good ball players, you can see it if you watch any U7/8/9 game (I used to ref at this level, and higher too) they don't need teaching.

Some people have a "footballing brain" to go with the mad skillz they have, these are the greats.

Some people just don't, can't and never will.

shane86

DesF wrote: »

I grew up playing football every single day on a field near my house, outside on the road, in the back garden with my da and brother, in the park with my mother being the goalie (still do that sometimes). I'm no rich boy either, my da works for the corpo.

I couldn't kick snow off a rope, truth be told.

Some people just don't, can't and never will.

Same as (well, the oul lads a mechanic but still ), from whenever I can remember. Dusk til dawn, on the road, in the grass, against walls. Probably a good 12 hours on a hot summers day.

I have fallen out of the habit of playing but even back then I wouldnt rate myself. We criticise Robbie Keane for poor form, but its poor form in regards to what an international player should be capable of. In truth 99% of us wouldnt cut it in the very lowest league in England.

HashSlinging

You've either got it or you dont. I never played football until my late twenties (5 a side) and got quite a shock when I discovered I could actually score a goal.

The competition was always very stiff for places and they were very professional FIFa eat your heart out. so I guess I could be called a natural, just not naturally fit!!

Also my Dad and his brothers were very much into sport and played at county level at football (GAA).

estebancambias

Here I'm only bringing this up for the sake of the argument. I start playing football when I was nine, and for about 4 years I was an awful player, but then when I was 13 it just clicked for me, and I was a lot better than players who had been better than me in years before. The reason I believe this is because I tried to be better than them, I know it is at a local level, but if it was natural talent why was I not better than them a year previous?

mikemac

But estaben, didn't your coach tell you had a "great footballing brain":D

Not sure why I remember that post!

estebancambias

Yeah it was on the wayside celtic website actually. 'Not blessed with pace, but has the ability to see a pass that others cannot' ..'A great footballing brain'

They said that when I thought I was crap, that was before I hit my peak as they say.

I played with Shelbourne for a few years when they were starting up their youth teams.

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

Here I'm only bringing this up for the sake of the argument.

Looks like you got one;)

Actually, I think it's quite an interesting thread, fair play.

estebancambias wrote: »

I start playing football when I was nine, and for about 4 years I was an awful player, but then when I was 13 it just clicked for me, and I was a lot better than players who had been better than me in years before. The reason I believe this is because I tried to be better than them, I know it is at a local level, but if it was natural talent why was I not better than them a year previous?

Yeah, you should have moved to Italy or something.

micmclo wrote: »

But estaben, didn't your coach tell you had a "great footballing brain":D

Not sure why I remember that post!

One of the classic posts of 2007.

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

I played with Shelbourne for a few years when they were starting up their youth teams.

:eek:

Here, if you still have that footballing brain of yours, any chance of you coming back?

estebancambias

I think James Chambers will do you fine, anyway I'm going to join Bohs.:D Me and JP Kelly creating havoc.

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

James Chambers

He plays for the Reds
He plays on the rii-iight
That boy Chambers
He makes everyone look shíte

estebancambias

Is he good now? Somehow I sense a certain degree of bias. I know he was with Everton. Amazing him and Stokes were on the same team, to be honest though Stokes never stood out.

He(Chambers) used to call me 'Bean' due to my figure apparently resembling a bean. Kids can be so cruel.

_blank_

He's quality tbh. He should be playing in the Premier Division, but fair play to the guy, he stuck with us in our time of troubles. He's now a Shels Legend.

Ah esteban me aul bean, it could have been you.

estebancambias

I'm giving Paul Doolin a ring before the deadline in the summer. It aint over yet.....


*Opens up a bag of cheesy cheesy doritos*

Mitch Connor

A player like Fabregas shows natural telent is a big plus - look at how good he was at 17, of course training will have helped him, but you aren't that good at that age without having a great amount of natural talent.

Mr. Presentable

It's an interesting debate, to be sure. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you are born with a set of skills and then can develop them. As for football, the skills could probably suit dance, for example (John Barnes?) or another sport which requires a degree of finesse.

No amount of practice will improve a lack of talent, while talent will not suffice unattended.

I was once told I had a good football brain. Sadly, I also have a good accountant body

estebancambias

Yeah to be honest I think a good footballing brain is an exuse for being ****e but if you could transport what you think in your brain you would be a good player. Lol. Perhaps they said that to soften me up.

I like the ''No amount of practice will improve a lack of talent, while talent will not suffice unattended.''

Attractive Nun

Natural talent quite clearly exists. Take me and a friend of mine, for example. Neither of us ever really played football when we were younger, except obviously on the green with the neighbours or whatever - never for a team. Few years ago we started playing 5-a side with the mates every now and again, still play regularly. Starting out, we were both obviously **** - no touch, no dribbling ability, no passing ability, no shooting ability, nothing.

But after a few years of playing, I've managed (by our low low 5-a side standards) to develop pretty a pretty good first touch, a decent ability to spot and make a pass and I've learned to become pretty good at intercepting passes/breaking up play. Still, I can't shoot for **** - at all. Put me in front of goal, one on one with the keeper, 3 out of 4 times I will miss. Neither can I beat a player. I've learned a few tricks and I can get out of tight spots sometimes, but put me in front of a player and I just can't go past them no matter how slow they are. I'd probably be a pretty good 'creative midfielder' only I'm also really bad in possession, very easy to tackle and win the ball from.

Then take my friend. Starting out from pretty much the same place as me, and 'training' pretty much in the exact same way, he is a totally different player to me. He has absolutely no first touch, no control at all - probably couldn't even do more than 10 keepy-ups. He's not much of a passer, barring short passes and layoffs he's useless really. But at the same time, on a good day when he gets the ball it's near impossible to get it off him, he can just run at players and somehow get past them. If only for the fact that his shooting is only marginally better than mine, he'd never stop scoring.

People have talents, natural talents, in different areas. They have to be developed obviously, but they are most certainly there.

MisterAnarchy

Of course there are natural footballers.
If you have good balance ,pace and good technique from an early age it makes a huge difference.
For instance if you have flat feet you will never be a good footballer .
Why do people find it difficult to kick a ball with their weaker foot ?
Its mostly down to balance or the lack of it.
When I was a kid my Dad used to force me to kick the ball with my weaker foot in the back garden until such time as I subconsciously didnt try to prefer my stronger foot.
Most great sports stars would be good at almost any game they concentrated on.
They have good hand/eye coordination or good balance or speed plus other skills.
You are born with limited talent but infinite potential.

PHB

Some people have better hand eye coordination than others. Personally I think it's developed.

That said, some people are naturally stronger, naturally faster, and naturally develop greater balance. With those attributes, they then begin to develop their technical side. I'm a believer in nuture over nature in terms of skill sets, but pace and stuff is just something you're born with.

eirebhoy

nipplenuts wrote: »

No amount of practice will improve a lack of talent, while talent will not suffice unattended.

QED.

Xavi6

Well I was absolutely woeful as a youngster. Was terrified to head the ball as a kid and couldn't pass wind. Then when I was about 12 or 13 something clicked and I could kick the ball more than three feet off the ground. I got better because I trained hard and kept at it, however that wouldn't have been possible were it not for some small bit of natural talent to nurture.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well I was absolutely woeful as a youngster. Was terrified to head the ball as a kid and couldn't pass wind. Then when I was about 12 or 13 something clicked and I could kick the ball more than three feet off the ground. I got better because I trained hard and kept at it, however that wouldn't have been possible were it not for some small bit of natural talent to nurture.

Thanks for posing Xavi, you remind me of a point I was thinking about earlier.

When we started Boardeaux, it was painfully obvious that certain players just weren't ever going to command a place in the side. It was cringeworthy looking at them going near a football.

Others were obviously naturals with the ball at their feet, but needed some coaxing to get that out of them, indeed, some of those players from our first season who are still with us, you probably wouldn't recognise today.

Again, others had obvious talent, we didn't need to ask them where they played, they just naturally and instinctively had a position on the pitch.

estebancambias

Honestly I thought Xavi6 was quoting me(until he mentioned the wind part) and was just about to rip the piss.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Thanks for posing Xavi, you remind me of a point I was thinking about earlier.

Jays Des people will be thinking we did some sort of sordid photo shoot!

DesF wrote: »

Again, others had obvious talent, we didn't need to ask them where they played, they just naturally and instinctively had a position on the pitch.

But that could be down to experience more so than natural talent. I knew from early on I was never going to be a 30 goal a season striker but I could make a tackle. Others may not have played at that age and only realise their true place later in life when they actually play seriously.

herbieflowers

Natural talent, yup is something there that is there to be harnessed and developed / nurtured in the correct way...but "natural"? Just in terms of genetics, I mean, how the hell does that work? It's not like all good footballers are born of a footballing stock, are there footballing genes? PHB mentioned hand-eye co-ordination, but how are some kids (I know this from when I was younger) able to kick the ball further and harder than others?

Xavi6

herbieflowers wrote: »

but how are some kids (I know this from when I was younger) able to kick the ball further and harder than others?

That's simply down to technique e.g. I can take two steps up to a ball and kick it further than most people who take a ten yard run up. It's practice and timing.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

dc69

estebancambias wrote: »

There is a reason why a greater amount of players from poor or working class places make it. This is why they make such a big deal about Kaka, as he is a rich Brazilian.

thats utter bollox,kaka is one of the most brilliant footballers i have ever seen,i never even knew he was rich but what has that got to do with anything.people make a big deal about kaka because he has been 1 of if not the best footballer on the planet for the last 2 years,not becuase of how rich his parent were!

Peyton Manning

If I do say so myself, I have a cracking pass on me. Its just something Ive never had trouble with - I can judge what weight or height to put on it, can see where abouts to put it where a player is running and Im able to think quickly, like which is their strongest foot so where to play the ball in relation to that. But thats where my good points end. I just so happens to have zero mobility, no pace whatsoever, cant defend to save my life, sh*t at headers and f*ck all stamina to boot. So if I was English I reckon I could command between 15 and 20 million.

Melion

Who does everyone think is the most naturally talented player in the world? I mean someone who just strolls around with the ball, making everything look to easy etc.

Would have to be Recoba IMO, sheer brilliance if he had wanted to be.

Xavi6

Melion wrote: »

Who does everyone think is the most naturally talented player in the world? I mean someone who just strolls around with the ball, making everything look to easy etc.

Would have to be Recoba IMO, sheer brilliance if he had wanted to be.

That should have a seperate thread. Could be an interesting one too.

Zidane for me anyway. He just strolled around and everything he did was effortless.

Peyton Manning

Ronaldo Luiz Nazario De Lima everytime.

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

That should have a seperate thread. Could be an interesting one too.

Zidane for me anyway. He just strolled around and everything he did was effortless.

It would be interesting until the C. Ronaldo fanboys arrived in the thread

eirebhoy

Even someone like Maldini could qualify for most naturally talented player.

Peyton Manning

Melion wrote: »

It would be interesting until the C. Ronaldo fanboys arrived in the thread

Cristiano Ronaldo isnt naturally talented?

Melion

Archimedes wrote: »

Cristiano Ronaldo isnt naturally talented?

Of course he is but i dont think he comes close to the likes of Zidane, Ronaldo and potentially Recoba.

Melion

And no im not saying that Recoba is a better player than Ronaldo but he certainly had the potential to be

Peyton Manning

Fair enough, but why the need to mention him in that case?

Melion

Archimedes wrote: »

Fair enough, but why the need to mention him in that case?

Because i find that you cant say anything about Ronaldo on this forum without being absolutely slated. Then everyone else jumps on you too.

Xavi6

Melion wrote: »

Because i find that you cant say anything about Ronaldo on this forum without being absolutely slated. Then everyone else jumps on you too.

And Gerrard....

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

And Gerrard....

This isnt about him

Peyton Manning

Melion wrote: »

Because i find that you cant say anything about Ronaldo on this forum without being absolutely slated. Then everyone else jumps on you too.

Well you say that he is nowhere near Recoba, Ronaldo and Zidane, and nobody had put his name forward as being near them - you were the first to mention him so why not just avoid it altogether? Seems like it was just a cheap pop at the guy to be honest.

Xavi6

Melion wrote: »

This isnt about him

But it should be!

Melion

Archimedes wrote: »

Well you say that he is nowhere near Recoba, Ronaldo and Zidane, and nobody had put his name forward as being near them - you were the first to mention him so why not just avoid it altogether? Seems like it was just a cheap pop at the guy to be honest.

Xavi6 said it would be an interesting thread which i also think it would be until the Ronaldo fans came in shouting off that he is the best player the world has ever seen and the most naturally talented. You cant argue with them because they have to be right all the time. It was in no way a pop at Ronaldo, it was a pop at the people who cant have a discussion about him.

And yes i realise im the same with some players too before someone mentions it.

homerjay2005

estebancambias wrote: »

Yeah it was on the wayside celtic website actually. 'Not blessed with pace, but has the ability to see a pass that others cannot' ..'A great footballing brain'

They said that when I thought I was crap, that was before I hit my peak as they say.

I played with Shelbourne for a few years when they were starting up their youth teams.

jaysus, modesty is defo not your best feature is it? i tell you what, why dont you come down to boardeaux and try out for the team and show us how good you are and stop this nonsense talk??

eZe^

Their is natural talent, but it has to be nurtured in the right way for the players chance to make it big and be a great player. People may prefer Messi because he has this special air about him, he makes simple things look special, and special thinks look simple. He always looks like he's got as much time as he wants, and he's finally learning to pass more. Hopefully he can be the first Argentine to get world player of the year and delight us for the next decade... =]

estebancambias

Homerjay- What and risk my online reputation? Never.


Ok people obviously confused what I meant about Kaka. In Brazil they make a big deal about Kaka because it is rare that a player from higher class will be the best on the Brazil team. Seriously only Ceni and Daniel Carvalho(when he was in the team) come from middle to upper class background.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

homerjay2005

estebancambias wrote: »

Homerjay- What and risk my online reputation? Never.

if your as class a player as you say you are, then it will only enhance your reputation. scared are we?