Training for ISSF-style shooting

IRLConor

I've been shooting on and off for the last couple of years and I've recently got back into it on a more regular basis. Since I've got back into shooting regularly, I have seen my scores improve but they seem to be stagnating. I'm currently averaging about 95/100 with a few stupid 89/100s* but I reckon I can shoot better. In fact, I know I can shoot better as I have done in the past!

Does anyone have any advice about building a training plan? Any recommendations for books that focus on training? (I have "Ways of the Rifle" and while it's good at showing positional stuff it's pretty light on advice about training.) Is there anyone who knows what they're on about that I could meet for a session or two to try and find the flaws in my technique?







* For the stats nerds, the average is 94.81 and the standard deviation is 2.54

Sparks

Ah, but is that 95 indoors or at 50m?

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

Ah, but is that 95 indoors or at 50m?

Indoors at 25 yards.

Edit: I don't get enough time on 50m ranges. I'd like to rectify this, but it's not easy.

Sparks

Yeah, thought so. Thing is, for ISSF shooting, 25yds is basicly position training. You have to get it right, but it's not enough on its own.

Anyway, things to try:

• Talk to Matt or Geoff. Seriously. Look at Richard's performance in the last 50m nationals.
• Put together some money to invest in training kit.
• Get one or two small camcorders, video yourself shooting a 60-shot match, then spend some time watching yourself. In particular, note deviations from your shot plan. Watch for variations, like putting your elbow in the wrong place (even by a few millimeters), that sort of thing.
• Put together a proper shooting diary.
• Rebuild after every shot. Don't bother even trying to reload while the rifle's in your shoulder. Maybe you're one of the very few who can actually do it (as opposed to the large number who think they can do it), but it's far more likely that you're moving your elbow or hip or something slightly and affecting your point of aim.
• Dry fire.
• More dry firing.
• Dry firing with your eyes closed.
• More dry firing (getting the idea?)
• Mental training. Whether it's yoga meditation or zen or With winning in mind, you need mental training at your level. You will not get better without it.
• Go to as many different 50m ranges as you can under as many conditions as you can.
• Learn how to shoot sighters. They're not there to let you wind your sights back and forth, they're there to probe the wind conditions.
• Shoot on a single bull in the 25yd target. You should be able to line up, close your eyes, wait, take the shot and still group properly.
• Batch testing. Yeah, expensive and a bit awkward, but once you're hitting high scores, it's a bit of a help. You'd need to be averaging 98s outdoors first though, prior to that, I wouldn't bother myself. And when you are, I'd just do it once and then stop faffing about with it and get back to training.
• Time with the rifle. Face it, unless you're training every day, you can't really do what you want to do. Dead serious here, unless you can get the jacket and glove and sling on, get down and dry-fire for at least a half-hour a day, every day, you will not be able to reach the level you'd like to. You don't need to be on the range for this, but you do need to do it.

Anyway, first and last bits there are the best bits of advice I can give. Hope it helps...

IRLConor

Lots of stuff there, thanks.

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, thought so. Thing is, for ISSF shooting, 25yds is basicly position training. You have to get it right, but it's not enough on its own.

Yep, I'm not happy with the lack of time I get at 50m, but getting myself to 50m ranges with a rifle is bloody hard. Hell, getting to one without a rifle is hard.

I definitely do need more position training though. I'm still inconsistent when I break and get back into position. Considering I've had trouble shooting 60 shots straight through without wrist/elbow pain I desperately need to make my position more consistent if I am to perform in competition.

Sparks wrote: »

Anyway, things to try:

• Talk to Matt or Geoff. Seriously. Look at Richard's performance in the last 50m nationals.

Good idea. Must do that.

As for Richard's performance, I shot on the same detail as him. His scores barely dipped when it was raining and you can pretty much see when it did by looking at mine. :rolleyes: (Not that I'm blaming the weather, I shouldn't be affected by it that much)

Sparks wrote: »

• Put together some money to invest in training kit.

I've been steadily buying kit over the last couple of months. Pretty much the only thing I'm missing is the rifle, but that ain't going to happen until I live somewhere I can put a safe.

Sparks wrote: »

• Get one or two small camcorders, video yourself shooting a 60-shot match, then spend some time watching yourself. In particular, note deviations from your shot plan. Watch for variations, like putting your elbow in the wrong place (even by a few millimeters), that sort of thing.

I've already done that using my laptop's built-in camera as an ersatz version of what you describe. It certainly helped me with getting a good cheek piece position and with my trigger control. Thanks for the reminder though, I need to do more of it.

Sparks wrote: »

• Put together a proper shooting diary.

Half-arsed one already in progress. Must do better.

Sparks wrote: »

• Rebuild after every shot. Don't bother even trying to reload while the rifle's in your shoulder. Maybe you're one of the very few who can actually do it (as opposed to the large number who think they can do it), but it's far more likely that you're moving your elbow or hip or something slightly and affecting your point of aim.

Interesting. I must try this.

Sparks wrote: »

• Dry fire.
• More dry firing.
• Dry firing with your eyes closed.
• More dry firing (getting the idea?)

I guess I'm too easily seduced by the fact that whenever I have the rifle I'm on the range and I have ammo.

Sparks wrote: »

• Mental training. Whether it's yoga meditation or zen or With winning in mind, you need mental training at your level. You will not get better without it.

Good idea, yet another thing I've overlooked.

Sparks wrote: »

• Go to as many different 50m ranges as you can under as many conditions as you can.

Yes. I am going to try. I'd like to get to the Isle of Man and Bisley this year, but it's hard to tell if I can due to work.

Sparks wrote: »

• Learn how to shoot sighters. They're not there to let you wind your sights back and forth, they're there to probe the wind conditions.

I never quite thought of it that way, but yes you're right. Too much time spent indoors I think.

Sparks wrote: »

• Shoot on a single bull in the 25yd target. You should be able to line up, close your eyes, wait, take the shot and still group properly.

Must try this.

Sparks wrote: »

• Batch testing. Yeah, expensive and a bit awkward, but once you're hitting high scores, it's a bit of a help. You'd need to be averaging 98s outdoors first though, prior to that, I wouldn't bother myself. And when you are, I'd just do it once and then stop faffing about with it and get back to training.

That's a way off at the moment I'm afraid. Good to remember though.

Sparks wrote: »

• Time with the rifle. Face it, unless you're training every day, you can't really do what you want to do. Dead serious here, unless you can get the jacket and glove and sling on, get down and dry-fire for at least a half-hour a day, every day, you will not be able to reach the level you'd like to. You don't need to be on the range for this, but you do need to do it.

Rifle is in the range. Range is 15-20 mins walk away from home. No problem to do this after work in the summer when the range is not in use. During term time I'm restricted to time after 2200 or during my work day. Neither is ideal.

Currently, I'm getting about 2 hours a week in which I know is way too little. I'm trying to clear time in my schedule for more.

One option is doing it in the morning before work, but not being an early bird type that's not an option I relish.

Sparks wrote: »

Anyway, first and last bits there are the best bits of advice I can give. Hope it helps...

Thanks for all of that. Plenty of food for thought and areas I can work on.

Interesting - I was talking to Richard and DF about the 'rebuilding' after each shot and they were very set against it.

Its ok for training but not, in their view, for matches.

IRLConor

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting - I was talking to Richard and DF about the 'rebuilding' after each shot and they were very set against it.

Its ok for training but not, in their view, for matches.

Certainly stuff I've read would seem to concur with them. Most sources say that it's a training tool, not a match one.

That said, it's training I probably need, my position isn't that consistent.

rrpc

The best way to test your ability to get your position right is to do the 'one shot' excercise.

Get into position and fire a shot. Get up completely, stand at the back of the range and then get down again and take another shot. Do this repeatedly for at least ten shots. The more you do it the better you will 'remember' your position, and the more naturally you will find it.

rrpc

Shooting in the wind is only recommended if you are happy with your position and can find it automatically. Once you have mastered your position, then go outdoors and start shooting without making any sight adjustments. Shoot as if you were indoors, but keep note of the wind flags. As your point of impact changes, note how many clicks it was away from centre and what the wind flags were doing. Over time you will then be able to predict what the point of impact will be before you take your shot and if it's not as expected analyse the shot and try and figure out where you went wrong.

Eventually, you will be able to then make the required adjustment to your sights for each shot to stay in the centre.

You can adopt this excercise to then choose a wind you want to shoot on. What you can do is as above, but note the fall of shots that groups best. If you've been noting the wind flags, you should then be able to choose this position and only shoot when the flag is indicating your chosen wind condition.

Many shooters in Bisley spend the detail preceding their own to watch the wind flags and choose the condition that they believe is the most prevalent and have their choice made before they even go onto the firing point. They then shoot their sighters in that condition only and confirm their decision before moving onto the match card.

At times during a detail, you can hear dead silence from 100 plus shooter as they wait for the correct wind condition, sometimes for minutes!

IRLConor

rrpc wrote: »

At times during a detail, you can hear dead silence from 100 plus shooter as they wait for the correct wind condition, sometimes for minutes!

I've done that before many times. I keep an eye on the wind myself, but I also keep an ear out for the good shooters on my detail. If they're not shooting and I'm unsure about the wind, down goes the rifle.

I remember doing that in the prone finals a couple of years ago..

Had two seconds left before I was happy with the wind, and took another second and a half before I took the shot!

Got the only ten for that shot... pity I didn't put many others through

Sparks

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting - I was talking to Richard and DF about the 'rebuilding' after each shot and they were very set against it.

Was talking with DF in Kuortane while training there in November and he was dead set against ever loading from the shoulder again after what Josef Gonci and Juha Hirvi saw happening to his position when he tried reloading without rebuilding.

Its ok for training but not, in their view, for matches.

Josef and Juha disagree, and they've a fair few medals between them so DF and I thought we'd take their advice on the topic