Women in the military

Lockstep

Morning folks

Granted this is probably better suited to the military forum but people there tend to either be in the military or planning on going in, so I'm interested in seeing what the people here think.

Do you think women should be allowed in the military? For example the fact women have a different physical test (modified push ups as opposed to standard push ups), are allowed to keep long hair etc.

I know a couple of people who think women shouldn't be allowed in the military (distracting to men etc) some who think women should be allowed in as it is and others who think women should only be allowed in if they do the exact same requirements and tests as men as equality means equal discrimination.

Keep in mind I'm no expert on the military any means, just looking for some ordinary people's thought and opinions

Nevyn

This is better suited to humanities.

WindSock

kickoutthejams wrote: »

women should only be allowed in if they do the exact same requirements and tests as men as equality means equal discrimination.

I think it was Charlton Heston who said something along the lines of guns making everyone equal or something. Sure they are always looking for recruits, I don't see why they would rule someone out because they may be physically weaker the others. I heard that women aren't allowed to fight in the front line though, but there are plenty of other positions that could be more suited. Paperwork, for example :rolleyes:

fits

I was in the reserves for a while, and always made sure that I was pulling my weight. I was easily a better marksperson and better with weapons than most of my male counterparts. I do think there are issues with physical strength and fitness on the front line, but outside of that, I see no reason why women should not be in the military if so inclined.

biko

I thought the notion wimmins shouldn't be in the military died with Boadicea.

WindSock

That was around 2000 years ago, Women weren't allowed to serve for a long time after that.

tallaght01

I guess there's a huge difference between arguing about women "in the miltary", and women "on the front line".

I don't think that women fight on the front line, legally, anywhere in the world.

Which is odd, considering we have an estimated 300,000 child soldiers around the globe!

I've heard arguments about treating women equally, and letting them have a go if they're willing to take the risks.

I've also heard the opposite argument from military sources...that, regardless of what the women want themselves, they would be putting men at further risk on the front line. ie the guys would be less likely to leave a woman behind, when sometimes you have to leave a guy behind. Or a woman may not be able to carry as much equipment, meaning the guys have to carry more, which slows them down etc.

I'm no military expert, so i don't know what the right answer is, but they're the arguments I'm familiar with on this issue.

I do know I'd much rather be a male prisoner of war then a female prisoner of war, considering what a LOT of armies/militia do to women in the type of countries where you would likely be based!

Lockstep

tallaght01 wrote: »

I do know I'd much rather be a male prisoner of war then a female prisoner of war, considering what a LOT of armies/militia do to women in the type of countries where you would likely be based!

I see exactly what you mean here.


As for where I started this thread:

I see what you mean but I was hoping to see what ladies opinions were to this, rather than military minded people.

Font22

of course they should be allowed to join the military! my dad was a commandent in the Irish army until quite recently and we spent some time living abroad when i was younger as my dad was serving with the UN (Israel and Syria). I remember speaking to him about what he thought of female officers and he said point blank that they were better than some of the male officers. However, the female officers he was speaking of were foreign (I think they were Swedish). I was considering applying for the cadets but decided against it mainly because my dad feels the Irish army doesnt appreciate the contribution that female officers can make and they often end up in offices with paperwork. If i had joined I would have hoped to serve abroad etc like my dad did.
To sum up, while i decided against joining I see no reason why a woman shouldnt be allowed to join!

Lux23

I don't see why not. I wouldn't have the physical dexterity or the mental power to go to war but im sure there are plenty of women who are more than capable of it. Although the military is in my blood as every male on my fathers side has been in teh army up to his generation going back 100's of years.
I always thought it would be exciting to have fought with the resistance during the war but real combat would scare the **** out of me.

Its funny when someone says soldier to me, I automatically think of a man even though I have seen loads of women dressed in uniforms etc. I remember watching the news once and there was a story about an activist for disabled soldiers rights in the US. She was a small asian woman with no legs and one arm, it really brought it home to me that women are doing the same work in Iraq as men. I never really felt any empathy for injured soldiers until I saw that, I never felt anything like that could happen to me as I was a woman. It was also a real shock to see female names on the lists of dead soldiers in Iraq, the news rarely mentions their sex or name them if they are American soldiers.

trellheim

You may be interested in the following. The Department of Defence recently commissioned a report on Recruitment and Retention in the Military [ for women ] . It addresses some of these issues and is worth a read.

It can be found along with supporting documents at

http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/document+id/43202C16447FECB2802572B4003E6F83

a few armies allow women to serve in all combat roles. The Irish Army is one.

tallaght01

trellheim wrote: »

a few armies allow women to serve in all combat roles. The Irish Army is one.

Would the Irish army slap a woman on the front line in an all out ruck???

I can see why we'd send them on UN roles, as that's essentially tokenism, and they have traditionally had very few powers of engagement.

But if, god forbid, we were invaded, would women fight front line in the infantry?

Lockstep

Personally I think women should be encouraged to join the military as much as men if it interests them, but at the same time, I think there should be a universal standard applying to everyone, for example the fitness tests etc.

Lux23

tallaght01 wrote: »

Would the Irish army slap a woman on the front line in an all out ruck???

I can see why we'd send them on UN roles, as that's essentially tokenism, and they have traditionally had very few powers of engagement.

But if, god forbid, we were invaded, would women fight front line in the infantry?

It would be a bit stupid if they changed their mind at the last minute. I suppose women are allowed to do the exact same duties as men in the Irish army is because its rather unlikely that they will ever be truely tested.

WindSock

I know in Israel everyone has to serve in the Army. I don't know if there are restrictions regarding women though.

Font22

WindSock wrote: »

I know in Israel everyone has to serve in the Army. I don't know if there are restrictions regarding women though.

No, no restrictions for women as far as I know.