Convince me about Betfair

mike65

Go on!

I decided to have a proper look this morning and play the demo. On the face it the ability to lay during an event means one would be mad to use anything else. Is this fair and is there any area of practical use where it falls down?

Mike.

ErinGoBrath

mike65 wrote: »

Is this fair and is there any area of practical use where it falls down?

Limited selection for accumulators (known as multiples on Betfair) compared to PP, Laddies etc.

Apart from that you'd be a fool to use anything else

ArmaniJeanss

Some minor disadvantages.

1. You don't have the protection from your own stupidity that you tend to get with a normal bookmaker, i.e., if you lay at 500/1 when you thought you were backing at 500/1, then tough. Someone else has taken your money, not Betfair, and you have no comeback.

2. You will rarely see a 'double result' payout from Betfair, like the way other bookies sometimes pay on a winner but return stakes on all other runners. (generally if there was some controversy).

3. And its very important to read the rules of each event that you backing. Betfair have some strange ones ( a tied match in one-day cricket being void is one that springs to mind)

Keano

Not to be bashing it as I too like Betfair:

Ante-Post bets that dont run you loose your money!

Hobart

mike65 wrote: »

Go on!

I decided to have a proper look this morning and play the demo. On the face it the ability to lay during an event means one would be mad to use anything else. Is this fair and is there any area of practical use where it falls down?

Mike.

Be very very careful when laying. One bad lay could wipe your bank out.

One good thing about betfair is trading, in which you can make quite a bit of money, with little risk.

IrishMike

Min bet is also €4 which can be annoying if you are putting money on a few fun bets.

mike65

Trading as in "teh markets" ISEQ/NASDAQ/FTSE etc? or something else?

Mike.

ErinGoBrath

IrishMike wrote: »

Min bet is also €4 which can be annoying if you are putting money on a few fun bets.

There's a way around this. I'll post it up when I get home for work...

ITT-Pat

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Not to be bashing it as I too like Betfair:

Ante-Post bets that dont run you loose your money!

Is that a joke?:eek:

Pj!

mike65 wrote: »

Trading as in "teh markets" ISEQ/NASDAQ/FTSE etc? or something else?

Mike.

You can trade in horses prices (or any prices for that matter). If you see a horse (or soccer team) at 4/1 and you reckon the price will drop you can back it at the 4/1 and lay it then when the price drops for a guaranteed profit.
For example you may reckon that a certain horse will go ut a strong front runner. This often causes the price to drop in running. You could back it before the race, then lay it at the lower in-running price.

But seriously you shouldnt need any convincing about Betfair if you wish to take gambling any way seriously.

Pj!

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Not to be bashing it as I too like Betfair:

Ante-Post bets that dont run you loose your money!

lol, didnt spot that post myself! Oh god!

ArmaniJeanss

ITT-Pat wrote: »

Is that a joke?:eek:

In fairness he has a point.

Most bookies will go non-runner-no-bet (but still honour the ante-post price) in the 3 weeks before Cheltenham, the week before Aintree / Royal Ascot etc.

Pj!

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

In fairness he has a point.

Most bookies will go non-runner-no-bet (but still honour the ante-post price) in the 3 weeks before Cheltenham, the week before Aintree / Royal Ascot etc.

But that is only very close to the event, when most if not all of any ante-post value has gone.

But fair point.

mike65

Asian Handicap

Crewe +0.5&+1.0
STAKE 4 euro

If Crewe draw or win

---

win €3.36
If Leeds win by 1

---

loose €2.00
If Leeds win by 2 or more

---

loose €4.00

Leeds -0.5&-1.0
STAKE 4 euro

If Leeds win by 2 or more--win €4.12
If Leeds win by 1

---

win €2.06
If Leeds do not win

---

loose €4.00

In this example the most I could loose is €0.64 cents I think (Crewe win/draw). Is that right? Or do I need to employ an accountant?

Mike.

threebeards

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Some minor disadvantages.

1. You don't have the protection from your own stupidity that you tend to get with a normal bookmaker, i.e., if you lay at 500/1 when you thought you were backing at 500/1, then tough. Someone else has taken your money, not Betfair, and you have no comeback.

Yeah, I've done something like this and luckily got away with it.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

2. You will rarely see a 'double result' payout from Betfair, like the way other bookies sometimes pay on a winner but return stakes on all other runners. (generally if there was some controversy).

I haven't come across this myself

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

3. And its very important to read the rules of each event that you backing. Betfair have some strange ones ( a tied match in one-day cricket being void is one that springs to mind)

But at least the rules are listed in each relevant market.

I think Betfair is the only way to go to be honest, especially from a football punting point of view.

Pj!

mike65 wrote: »

Asian Handicap

Crewe +0.5&+1.0
STAKE 4 euro

If Crewe draw or win

---

win €3.36
If Leeds win by 1

---

loose €2.00
If Leeds win by 2 or more

---

loose €4.00

Leeds -0.5&-1.0
STAKE 4 euro

If Leeds win by 2 or more--win €4.12
If Leeds win by 1

---

win €2.06
If Leeds do not win

---

loose €4.00

In this example the most I could loose is €0.64 cents I think (Crewe win/draw). Is that right? Or do I need to employ an accountant?

Mike.

If Crewe win you lose €0.64.
If its a draw you lose €0.64.
If Leeds win by one you win €0.06.
If Leeds win by more than one you win €0.12.



Or you could simply put your €0.64 on Leeds to win €0.51.

Dodge

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

1. You don't have the protection from your own stupidity that you tend to get with a normal bookmaker, i.e., if you lay at 500/1 when you thought you were backing at 500/1, then tough. Someone else has taken your money, not Betfair, and you have no comeback.

Although it does ask you if you sure you want to back/lay at any price over 100

Trading is just backing/laying within the same market. I'd guess the majority of betfair users do this.

If you're into horses there's no each way market. You have winner markets and place markets though.

If you bet on sports like Darts or snooker you usually get a lot more markets on the traditional bookies (such as most 180s, highest break in match etc etc)

I should point out I almost exclusively use betfair at this stage, and then 95% of that is in play betting, which unlike most bookies goes right up to final whistle/finishing line.

p15574

http://www.betdaq.com is another good betting exchange, and it does multiples much better than BF. The minimum bet is only a euro there too. Plus, it's Irish.

MrJoeSoap

Mike, if you are going to use Betfair I strongly recommend you download the Bet Angel software. Get used to it (do the tutorials on the site etc...) before you start using it though.

And don't forget Betfair take 5% of your winnings, so the odds aren't dramatically better than the bookies. Laying can be extremely handy when backing out of a bet (for example, if you back X to win something at 4.0 and it becomes a bit more of a "certainty" and the lay price drops below the 4.0 you can lay it at a lower price for a guaranteed win, then using Bet Angel you can spread that guaranteed win evenly across all possible outcomes in an event, called greening up), but at the same time hugely it is risky for the exact same reason. I'd recommend you get used to the system and processes before betting any substantial sums!

Your betting "progress" amazes me Mike! You started out with little 50 cent accumulators not long ago if I'm not mistaken!?

PS - I started on Betfair, but moved onto Paddy Power for the wider range of markets.

PPS - Don't forget, betting is a mugs game, you'll never make money off it on average.

mike65

I was looking at bet software earlier as it happens.

My betting history is erm "patchy" I've had more bad than good ones of course. My main problem is Liverpool.

Mike.

MrJoeSoap

Cut them out completely. It's the only way, one of the main policies most succesful gamblers take is removing any emotional attachments, regardless of how certain you may be.

mike65

Oh I agree, a month ago I'd put money on them for the Luton replay but not now.

Was just looking at the Bet Angel vids, interesting, basicly you have to be Nick Leeson
but less exposed. Quick refresh and quick on the mouse.

Mike.

MrJoeSoap

Thats for trading yeah, but even for your run-of-the-mill bets its great. Auto refresh every second and one-click betting with no need to confirm a bet.

macshadow

IrishMike wrote: »

Min bet is also €4 which can be annoying if you are putting money on a few fun bets.

Lets say Man Utd are available to back at 2.00, so you click on back, then adjust the odds up to eg lets say 2.80 then submit a 4euro bet at 2.80 and it will be returned unmatched, then change the 4euro bet to 4.55euro and click submit, now you are left with two unmatched bets, one for 4euro and one for 0.55euro, now cancel the 4euro bet and you're left with one 0.55 bet, now adjust the odds on the 0.55 bet to 2.00 and click submit and it will be matched.

I find bf good for trading on different markets in the same game that is also inplay, example, back Man Utd to win at half time and draw at full time, 500 euro at 18/1 in the ht/ft market, potential profit nine thousand euro, if Man Utd are winning at ht you can lay the draw in the match odds market to get your 500 back and a potential win of maybe six thousand euro on the ht/ft market.
Or you can then lay the draw some more in the match odds market for a smaller guaranteed profit regardless of the result.

mike65

Well I just dipped my toe in the betfair/betangel trading market -

Deposit - - - 15.00


13:25 GB Sthl 15th Jan / 13:30 7f Hcap / Silver Hotspur
Back 3.00 4.00 Won €8.00 €22.77

13:27 GB Sthl 15th Jan / 13:30 7f Hcap / Silver Hotspur
Lay 3.20 2.50 Lost (€5.50) €17.27

8-01-15
13:37 4317648178 2008-01-15
13:27 GB Sthl 15th Jan / 13:30 7f Hcap

Comm Charged 5.2% On Net winnings of EUR2.5 - - - (€0.13) €17.14

Okay its small beer but I did'nt screw up and loose 8 euro.

Mike.

kincsem

Keep the balance in your account small - a few hundred at most.

Some people put up trap prices
e.g. on a soccer match, 190 that looks like 1.90.
Prices could be

---

back: 1.60; 1.70, 1.80. lay 190.
So you accidently lay a team at 190 when you thought you were laying at 1.90 and lose all your money.
So keep your balance small, as you may lose it all with a mistaken click.

Another problem is markets like the current Next Newcastle Manager. There are plenty of big players who can manipulate prices, and cause a stampede of people rushing in to accept daft odds. e.g 1.20 Redknapp to be next manager. They lay at 1.20, you back at 1.20, and they collect easy money. Mugs think the "insiders" know what is happening.

mike65

Well you need look no further than the Ireland job. I reckon there must be something going on there.

One question is it possible to lay first then back? Or is that like anti-gravity? It won't happen!

Mike.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Dodge

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not neccesarily. Depends on the odds. In the Redknapp example above you could've risked 20 to gain 100 (less commission etc)...

mike65

Unless I'm missing something its hopeless for accumulators with PP you can mix and match many events and results within that event ie win/draw/win, handicaps, first goalscorer etc.

Mike

Paddy Irishman

Have any of you placed a bet on the Australian tennis with Betfair? Did you have to send off any documentation to London before you did? What's the story with these KYC (know your customer) checks from an Irish customers point of view anyway?