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New fast/economical diesel in July?

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  • 14-01-2008 6:26pm
    #1
    omega man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭


    Might be relocating in the near future and if so would need to get me a diesel as milage could hover around the 25000 miles pa. My current motor is a Mazda 3 MPS so i want something where i wont have a big power drop and will see good fuel economy return. With the vrt/tax changes i would be looking at a new car the likes of a BMW 123D M-Sport (200bhp) or an Audi A3 TDI (170bhp) Quattro. I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd) as my commute would involve some back roads etc. I have thought of the 3 series but the 320D is a tad slow and the M sport model is a bit more pricey and i really dont want a standard version. I have also considered the Octavia vrs(fully loaded) even though its fwd (had the 2L petrol one already) or the Leon FR. Dont want a golf! Any thoughts guys??


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    #2
    milltown
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭milltown


    As long as it's not too small for you I'd have the beemer. One of the many newly graduated VRT experts should be able to confirm, but I think the Audi diesel is dirtier than the BMW one and will attract higher VRT and road tax.


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    #3
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    Altea FR 170 bhp / import a A4 3.0 D Quattro.


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    #4
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    Whats your budget?

    I'm looking at buying something similar in july. I'm thinking about an A4 2.0 TDI 170 S-Line. Its front wheel drive, but it slots into the 20% VRT and €290 road tax. I'd love the quattro version, but its 28% VRT and €600 road tax. And the mpg drops from 48 to 42, so I reckon that it probably isnt worth it.


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    #5
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    They'll all be slow compared to the MPS, but I might as well throw this one in before someone else does.. the Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm, can be got with 4 wheel drive too. I might be wrong, but there may be a twin turbo version of this coming. There is in the 1.9 JTDm anyway. Also word of a 3 litre V6 diesel.


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    #6
    fletch
    Registered Users Posts: 7,399 ✭✭✭fletch


    Not usually a fan of French cars but what about a Mégane Renaultsport dCi 175?
    My money would be on the 123d, not a fan of the styling but it is a fantastic engine!


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    #7
    Tipsy Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Tipsy Mac


    Rear wheel drive is good except when there's ice, in such cases the car is completely crippled, I would factor this in to your final decision.

    Of the cars you mentioned my preference would be the Octavia VRS, lovely looking cars and a reasonable price too for what your getting.


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    #8
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Biro wrote: »
    They'll all be slow compared to the MPS, but I might as well throw this one in before someone else does.. the Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm, can be got with 4 wheel drive too. I might be wrong, but there may be a twin turbo version of this coming. There is in the 1.9 JTDm anyway. Also word of a 3 litre V6 diesel.

    I've this on order, the 210 BHP Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm. Strangely you can't get it in 4 wheel drive in this country, while you can in the UK! I tried and even asked Fiat Ireland HQ. :(

    Anyway, it would only have added extra weight and slowed the car down right! ;)

    Edit, BTW Biro - There's rumours Alfa are going to stick a detuned Ferrari engine into the 159. Watch this space. :)


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    #9
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    omega man wrote: »
    I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd)
    rwd for stability? That's a new one to me.

    There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla, and also apparently a diesel Civic Type-R on the way.


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    #10
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla

    Which can't be bought in Ireland, and it's an Auris in any event! Its not terribly green anyway, at 45 mpg, a 120d which actually has more power(if only by 2 bhp!) averages 57.6 mpg in the same cycle.


    That's besides the point, I remember there being an Auris T180 for sale last year on carzone and it was for sale at €43,000 and that car had 3,000 miles up on the clock, so even if it were to be sold here, that gives you some idea as to how much it would cost if Toyota were to sell it here.


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    #11
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    BMW's are very golf clubish now though, if ye know what i mean, good and all, but a bit golf.


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    #12
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    BMW's are very golf clubish now though, if ye know what i mean, good and all, but a bit golf.

    What's wrong with Golf:D? Don't tell me you're from the Jeremy Clarkson school on Golf:D.


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    #13
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    Which can't be bought in Ireland,
    July will prob change that.
    E92 wrote: »
    a 120d which actually has more power(if only by 2 bhp!) averages
    Has anyone actually seen an Efficient Dynamic-equipped BMW in real life?


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    #14
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    July will prob change that.

    24% VRT then, not great all things considered. But no I wouldn't rule it out either. Will be very pricey going on what I said earlier. Almost €40k even at 24% VRT, since as I say, I remember seeing one advertised last year for €43k and that was with 3,000 miles upon it.
    JHMEG wrote: »
    Has anyone actually seen an Efficient Dynamic-equipped BMW in real life?

    There are loads of them around. All the facelifted 1 and 5 series models, which were introduced nearly a year ago at this stage(excluding 520d and 116i) have them, and in September 07 the 116i also got them, I've seen 2 or 3 08 BMWs already, 2X520d and 1X3 series, and all 08 MY 3 and 6 series have EfficientDynamics as well as the 520d. I've seen several 07 1 and 5 series with them too.


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    #15
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    There are loads of them around.
    The first RHD models only left the factory (in South Africa I believe) in October or November I thought? There are loads of facelifts around, but loads don't have ED. And no-one on here has mentioned owning or driving one, or even being in one...


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    #16
    omega man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭omega man


    JHMEG wrote: »
    rwd for stability? That's a new one to me.

    There is that 180bhp D4D Corolla, and also apparently a diesel Civic Type-R on the way.

    When i say stability i mean a lack of wheel spin. The mps has a lot of power but when very wet she can struggle in first. I am leaning towards the 123D and i think the M sport version gives it some sense of style. having picked the mps over the likes of the focus st i think it shows looks are not the be all for me. If it wasnt for the new vrt/tax rates i would probably go for a used 330D or the likes. That 2.4 alfa sounds nice but i dont know if i could get over the reliability issues. Whats its co2 rating? As for budget, im hoping the list on the 123D M sport will be around 42/43K so really depends on trade-in value for the mps. I got the mps at Joe Duffy who are mazda also so that would be my best bet.


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    #17
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Strangely you can't get it in 4 wheel drive in this country, while you can in the UK! I tried and even asked Fiat Ireland HQ. :(

    Typical :rolleyes:
    Best of luck with the new bus when you get it though! Nicest looking saloon on the road.


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    #18
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    1 series and style in the one sentence...ahem over active imagination. please they're the most boring looking things on the road. If you want style get a Citroen.

    http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223


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    #19
    .Longshanks.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭.Longshanks.


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    If you want style get a Citroen.

    http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223
    If you want one of the heaviest depreciating cars on the road get that Citroen.
    WhatCar.com wrote:
    FOR Refreshingly different from the ubiquitous German cars; two fine V6 engines and a good motorway ride

    AGAINST As an ownership proposition, a potential disaster: expensive to buy and run; aftersales service and residuals are big worries


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    #20
    MarkN
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭MarkN


    style.. Citroen ? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was sarcasm! Omega I wouldn't let ice and RWD get in the way of your choice.. When do we really get ice worth talking about in this country and any that you do encounter, common sense and the traction control button will keep you in the right direction.


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    #21
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    MarkN wrote: »
    style.. Citroen ? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was sarcasm!
    Some people quite like Citroens, tho not myself personally. A girl I know thinks the C5 is the nicest looking car on the road.:eek:
    MarkN wrote: »
    I wouldn't let ice and RWD get in the way
    Drive the yoke I drove 10 days ago (400bhp 300ZX) and you'd have serious reservations about rwd and anything other than perfect weather conditions!


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    #22
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    The first RHD models only left the factory (in South Africa I believe) in October or November I thought? There are loads of facelifts around, but loads don't have ED. And no-one on here has mentioned owning or driving one, or even being in one...


    Like I said, it's only the 520d and 116i that recently gained EfficientDynamics. The 116i got it a few months ago, the 520d just recently. When those cars got their facelifts back in March/April last year the rest of the 1 and 5 series range got them.

    The entire 3 series range only recently gained EfficientDynamics and are visually identical to those without ED(for now, but a facelifted 3 series is coming in the later half of 2008). The 6 series also got a facelift recently too, and the entire 6 series range now has them too as part of the facelift.

    AFAIK all those cars are built in Germany. The 5 and 6 series are built in Dingolfing in Bavaria. The 1 series is made in Leipzig, and the 3 series in RHD form is indeed built in South Africa. The LHD 3 series is built in Dingolfing as well though AFAIK.

    I presume that's where you got the thing about South Africa from.

    ED was added to the 3 series in October, but as nobody buys cars at that time of the year, it's pretty much safe to say that no 3 series with an 07 reg has ED.


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    #23
    MarkN
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭MarkN


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Some people quite like Citroens, tho not myself personally. A girl I know thinks the C5 is the nicest looking car on the road.:eek:

    Drive the yoke I drove 10 days ago (400bhp 300ZX) and you'd have serious reservations about rwd and anything other than perfect weather conditions!

    I know it's a more modern car and it's not 400bhp but my yoke copes with 306bhp through the rear wheels ok and the OP is talking about a new car here.


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    #24
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    All the facelifted 1 and 5 series models, have ED
    Has anyone actually seen a BMW with ED in the flesh? I haven't and I don't know anyone who has. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying if there are so many around isn't it strange that no-one on here knows anything about them?


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    #25
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    MarkN wrote: »
    I know it's a more modern car and it's not 400bhp but my yoke copes with 306bhp through the rear wheels ok and the OP is talking about a new car here.
    Fair enough, I'm sure your's has plenty of driver aids to stop novices sticking the arse in the ditch when it rains..


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    #26
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Has anyone actually seen a BMW with ED in the flesh?
    Yes, several times. Lost count ages ago how many times I've seen one.

    EDIT: Here is a 07 1 series with EfficientDynamics.


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    #27
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    omega man wrote: »
    That 2.4 alfa sounds nice but i dont know if i could get over the reliability issues. Whats its co2 rating?

    What reliability issues. The 159 has been on the continent since 06 and it's come on leaps and bounds from the 156, and it comes with a 3 year warranty. :)

    The CO2 is 179 I think, not too bad.


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    #28
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    smcgiff wrote: »
    The CO2 is 179 I think, not too bad.
    That is bad, EfficientDynamics BMW 3 series petrols with 3.0 litre engines produce less CO2 than that, 170 g/km for a 325i, and 173 g/km for a 330i!

    As for Alfa reliability, I'm reliably informed that the 1.9 diesel is actually very good indeed for reliability.


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    #29
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭maidhc


    omega man wrote: »
    I have picked these due to stabilty (rwd/awd) as my commute would involve some back roads etc.

    Get a car that holds the road well! I don't think 4x4 will help with much other than to sap performance and economy.

    I'd like a VRS TDI to be honest!


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    #30
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    EDIT: Here is a 07 1 series with EfficientDynamics.
    That's on a dealer's forecourt.

    Does anyone actually own one, esp one of the 3 or 5 series?


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    #31
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭maidhc


    JHMEG wrote: »
    That's on a dealer's forecourt.

    Does anyone actually own one, esp one of the 3 or 5 series?

    Can you switch off this efficient dynamics stuff? Like if you DONT WANT your car to turn off in traffic because your battery may be somewhat dodgy... or as one man once said, if you have a "lazy starter motor"?*

    *which I can see happening in short course if the poor devil is cranking a diesel all day.


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