New fast/economical diesel in July?

JHMEG

Fifth Gear reviewed the Mini Clubman, which has auto stop start. Yer man couldn't get to grips with it at all "it doesn't work very well, but fortunately it can be turned off".

In which case I assume the CO2 is pretty much the same as it is for a non-ED car. In which case BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink.

MarkN

Quattro will make any Audi handle unbelievably well but I do feel economy suffers. A mate of mine has an Astra OPC and can regularly get 600-700kms from a tank. My S3 which had a few more ponies but climate and Quattro would never edge over 460kms.. I would go as far as saying my current car is nearly as economical as the Audi was with Quattro so bear that in mind if you won't it PLUS economy.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

That is bad, EfficientDynamics BMW 3 series petrols with 3.0 litre engines produce less CO2 than that, 170 g/km for a 325i, and 173 g/km for a 330i!

As for Alfa reliability, I'm reliably informed that the 1.9 diesel is actually very good indeed for reliability.

I wouldn't go blowing BMW's trumpet yet. 179 mightn't be great, but it's not all that bad. And would improve if you switched off your engine every time you stopped! And the engine is a few years old now, so it's very good for it's age. Just because BMW are after releasing a brand new (bearly on the road they're so new) range of efficient engines, doesn't mean no one else is capable of. Wait till an all new Alfa diesel hits the market, then judge! BMW have times when their engines are out a while too you know!

omega man

MarkN wrote: »

Quattro will make any Audi handle unbelievably well but I do feel economy suffers. A mate of mine has an Astra OPC and can regularly get 600-700kms from a tank. My S3 which had a few more ponies but climate and Quattro would never edge over 460kms.. I would go as far as saying my current car is nearly as economical as the Audi was with Quattro so bear that in mind if you won't it PLUS economy.

I get between 25-29mpg on the mps and as much as i really dont want to change its just not practical or economical to keep if i move. As for the RWD issue, i found my old E46 320 to have fantastic grip, better than my previous fwd vrs and my current mps. I really dont want to go for a big car as the wife has a scenic for the family outings! As for the image of the 1 series, i think the bog version looks dull but in M Sport i think it looks good especially on the new 3 door model. Despite what i said though i still havent ruled out a 3 series. My budget could stretch to a 325D SE (46K aprox), any thoughts?

maidhc

Biro wrote: »

I wouldn't go blowing BMW's trumpet yet. 179 mightn't be great, but it's not all that bad. And would improve if you switched off your engine every time you stopped! And the engine is a few years old now, so it's very good for it's age. Just because BMW are after releasing a brand new (bearly on the road they're so new) range of efficient engines, doesn't mean no one else is capable of. Wait till an all new Alfa diesel hits the market, then judge! BMW have times when their engines are out a while too you know!

I think JHMEG is right about BMW. This ED thing sounds like a bit of a scam if you can switch it off! You may as well have a "high co2 mode"

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

You really should do some research before coming out with sweeping statements.

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

ALL manufacturers claims about new technolgy should be viewed with suspicion and cynicism until well proven!

I do like their cars, but lets face it, BMW have never been a particularly innovative company!

Biro

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Of course, you are now going to complain that BMW don't fit all the EfficientDynamics cars with fuel saving tech, and that BMW is technologically inept because it can only make auto start stop work on 4 cylinder engines, but then again you'd argue that black was white when it comes to BMW and MINI.

For the benefit of everyone, because others are guilty too, only the 4 cylinder BMWs with EfficientDynamics have auto start stop.

Really, I think you are saying what you say about BMWs to see how I, and others who like BMWs will react, so drop it.

So to repeat from earlier, the 325i with it's 3.0 litre straight 6 petrol engine does indeed produce less CO2 than the Alfa 159 2.4 litre 5 cylinder diesel and there is no auto start stop to help it achieve this.

So everyone, please explain to me how "BMW have achieved a massive hood-wink", because either BMW are paying the EU to put out false info about their cars with EfficientDynamics or ASS makes little or no difference because I've just shown you and everyone else that even without this "questionable" feature, BMW can get their 6 cylinder petrol engines to produce less CO2 than other cars' 5 cylinder diesels, less CO2 than 4 cylinder 1.6 petrols a la the Mondeo or the Avensis, and less CO2 than the Lexus GS450h, whose petrol engine at 3.5 litres is a very similar size to the 3.0 in BMW's 530i, which being a 6 cylinder engine has no auto start stop. I notice from various postings on the internet that hybrid engines don't switch off intraffic when the temperature drops below 5 degress either, but I bet the promoters of hybrids don't tell you that in the brochure either. So that is arguably a "massive hood-wink" too.;)

But needless to say that won't please everyone:D.

I wasn't knocking BMW, I was saying that the engines are hot off the press if you like with the ED technology... My point being not to keep knocking other manufacturers regarding their CO2 levels, cause maybe some engines in the pipeline from one of them might be about to set a new benchmark.

Besides, lets not forget that the BMW M5 is one of the highest polluters for sale in this country... higher than some quicker cars, but we don't go knocking BMW for that!!

E92

Biro wrote: »

I wasn't knocking BMW, I was saying that the engines are hot off the press if you like with the ED technology... My point being not to keep knocking other manufacturers regarding their CO2 levels, cause maybe some engines in the pipeline from one of them might be about to set a new benchmark.

Besides, lets not forget that the BMW M5 is one of the highest polluters for sale in this country... higher than some quicker cars, but we don't go knocking BMW for that!!

That's fair enough, I realise that the M5 is far from the greenest car on sale, but that's hardly the point, is it?

I'm only saying that 179 g/km is bad because a 6 cylinder petrol should be polluting a lot more CO2, not less of it!

And if Alfa have something in the pipeline that produces less CO2 then I look forward to seeing it.

I don't have a problem with people disliking BMWs, far from it of course. I dislike quite a good few of them myself. I'm not terribly keen on the current 5 series as I've said on more than one occasion. And a lot of the Chris Bangle designs are hideous. And trying to find niches like the X1 and X6 and Progressive Activity Sedan which by the way looks very similar to the X6 and only seats 4 when it is supposed to be an MPV is wrong IMO. The 1 series was a mistake in my eyes, it brings the BMW brand more downmarket, but the sales figures tell a different story, and now in the current climate where emissions are all the rage it is probably just as well they do have the 1 series after all.

What I don't like is when people seize every little opportunity to criticise BMW about things no matter how petty. As I said before there are times I feel that people would argue that black was white with anything BMW related here.

niceirishfella

JJJJNR wrote: »

1 series and style in the one sentence...ahem over active imagination. please they're the most boring looking things on the road. If you want style get a Citroen.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=861223

Defo a stylish car.........but 74k for it? It'll only book 44k next year I'd say

Biro

E92 wrote: »

That's fair enough, I realise that the M5 is far from the greenest car on sale, but that's hardly the point, is it?

I'm only saying that 179 g/km is bad because a 6 cylinder petrol should be polluting a lot more CO2, not less of it!

And if Alfa have something in the pipeline that produces less CO2 then I look forward to seeing it.

I don't have a problem with people disliking BMWs, far from it of course. I dislike quite a good few of them myself. I'm not terribly keen on the current 5 series as I've said on more than one occasion. And a lot of the Chris Bangle designs are hideous. And trying to find niches like the X1 and X6 and Progressive Activity Sedan which by the way looks very similar to the X6 and only seats 4 when it is supposed to be an MPV is wrong IMO. The 1 series was a mistake in my eyes, it brings the BMW brand more downmarket, but the sales figures tell a different story, and now in the current climate where emissions are all the rage it is probably just as well they do have the 1 series after all.

What I don't like is when people seize every little opportunity to criticise BMW about things no matter how petty. As I said before there are times I feel that people would argue that black was white with anything BMW related here.

No, you're right, I hate this brand bashing that happens here a lot. I like a lot of BMW's. The biggest problem I have with them though is the image. This idea that you have 40% of people who'll hate you for owning one cause they say you think you're great, 40% who'll love you cause it's a beemer, not having a clue or caring what's under the bonnet, and only 20% who actually know the good from the bad. THat's why if I ever get a beemer, I'll have to get one with over 200bhp, cause the way I see it you need the clout to back up the statement the badge is making! 316's should be banned.
Anyhoo... this has strayed from the topic. OP, get the Alfa!

cashmni1

OP, get the BMW, if you don't mind the lack of space. If you travel back roads, yes rwd and something nice and short. The BMW has an exelent co2 rating for a car with 200bhp. Leave the front wheels do the steering and most of the braking. Let the back wheels do the pushing. There is lots of tourqe too so there won't be that much of a drop from the MPS.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

It's funny how you mentioned what I quoted above really, because had you done this you would have known that the BMW I mentioned, the 325i does NOT have auto start stop.

Hold on a sec. Do you mean that Efficient Dynamics doesn't necessarily mean the car has ASS? Or do you mean the 325i you mentioned doesn't have ED at all?

Now before I go and look at BMW's website, I'd say the 170-ish grams figure is more in line with a normal 1.6-1.8 petrol car.

Ok, BMW website time:
BMW.IE: 325i (2497cc) = 203g
BMW.CO.UK: 325i (2996cc and ED is specifically mentioned) = 170g

Mmm, this is interesting. Our 325i is a 2.5 litre, a bit of an "Irish special", by the looks of things. I would imagine it's substantially cheaper than a 3 litre under the current regime at least. Oh, and there's no mention of our 325i having Efficient Dynamics.

Let's see what the South Africans get, seeing as it's built there, and like here cars are expensive relative to salaries:
BMW.CO.ZA: 325i (2497cc) = 203g

So can we say right here right now that the 325 in Ireland doesn't have ED and pollutes 203g!

And finally, if like maidhc says the car has a user selectable high CO2 mode, then the car should be assessed for CO2 with high CO2 mode turned on.

(Yes, hybrids can be slow to auto stop in freezing weather. The owner's manual states this, so I don't know why it's a surprise to anyone.)

MarkN

J - for someone who moans about BMWs being the talk here, you do a lot of it yourself

You are a Honda lover, E92 is a BMW lover, end of.

I have to say I saw a white 3dr 120d with M sport and it didn't look bad at all. Would I drive one? No. But they're not as bad looking as the 5dr.

Omega - bear in mind the A3 is probably at the end-ish of its life now. They're around since 2003 so it's pretty much 5 years old now. Not sure how much having 'the old model' bothers you.

As for that Citroen - anyone who spends 75 big ones on one seriously needs more than their head examined.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Hold on a sec. Do you mean that Efficient Dynamics doesn't necessarily mean the car has ASS? Or do you mean the 325i you mentioned doesn't have ED at all?

Read my previous post(the answer is in it).

JHMEG wrote: »

Now before I go and look at BMW's website, I'd say the 170-ish grams figure is more in line with a normal 1.6-1.8 petrol car.

1.6 Avensis 172 g/km, 1.8 Avensis 171 g/km, 1.6 Mondeo 172 g/km, 1.8 A4 169 g/km, so yes.

JHMEG wrote: »

Ok, BMW website time:
BMW.IE: 325i (2497cc) = 203g
BMW.CO.UK: 325i (2996cc and ED is specifically mentioned) = 170g

Mmm, this is interesting. Our 325i is a 2.5 litre, a bit of an "Irish special", by the looks of things. I would imagine it's substantially cheaper than a 3 litre under the current regime at least. Oh, and there's no mention of our 325i having Efficient Dynamics.

Let's see what the South Africans get, seeing as it's built there, and like here cars are expensive relative to salaries:
BMW.CO.ZA: 325i (2497cc) = 203g

You didn't look at the pricelist for the 325i on bmw.ie obviously. Look at that and tell me what it says(by the way no prizes for guessing which is right). BMW Ireland is a subsidiary of BMW GB, Irish spec BMWs are identical bar the speedo being in km/h to those across the pond, it hardly makes sense to import completely different cars. I know it says otherwise in the technical data section of BMW.ie's website, but it's completely out of date(those are for the non EfficientDynamics, they still have the wrong info for the 5 series even though the entire range bar the 520d gained ED last April FFS!), which is why I've always linked to BMW UK's website. It's amazing what one can believe when they believe the incorrect info.

JHMEG wrote: »

So can we say right here right now that the 325 in Ireland doesn't have ED and pollutes 203g!

Wrong again. See above. Its getting wearisome at this stage having to tell you that they do have EfficientDynamics. South Africa generally tends to get newly introduced BMWs quite some time after us. There's no mystery to it really, however much you might wish to think so .

omega man

cashmni1 wrote: »

OP, get the BMW, if you don't mind the lack of space. If you travel back roads, yes rwd and something nice and short. The BMW has an exelent co2 rating for a car with 200bhp. Leave the front wheels do the steering and most of the braking. Let the back wheels do the pushing. There is lots of tourqe too so there won't be that much of a drop from the MPS.

That kinda sums it up for me. The 123D m-sport is top of the list i reckon but i wont rule out a late surge for the 325D SE perhaps? Although I dont really need a bigger car and for a 3 litre it has slightly less bhp than the 123's 2 litre engine, looks good all the same. Is the 320D the 177 bhp version as in the 120D or is it still the older 163??

RobAMerc

Omega man - you'll be disappointed if you think you'll get the 123d M Sport coupe for 42k I am afraid - your talking closer to 50k without leather !

Perhaps come July - maybe some of the VRt aficionado's might be able to tell us ?

Also 200bhp - 50mpg and €150 road tax per year, i would think is farily hard to beat. But I am lucky in that I think the coupe looks great!

omega man

RobAMerc wrote: »

Omega man - you'll be disappointed if you think you'll get the 123d M Sport coupe for 42k I am afraid - your talking closer to 50k without leather !

Perhaps come July - maybe some of the VRt aficionado's might be able to tell us ?

Also 200bhp - 50mpg and €150 road tax per year, i would think is farily hard to beat. But I am lucky in that I think the coupe looks great!

50K now alright but with vrt going from 30% to 16% the drop will be noticable. One of the guys here did up a full bmw price list from july 08 on the new vrt/tax sticky. BMW have promised to reduce prices in line with vrt reductions. Its the 3 door hatchback not the coupe for info.

E92

omega man wrote: »

That kinda sums it up for me. The 123D m-sport is top of the list i reckon but i wont rule out a late surge for the 325D SE perhaps? Although I dont really need a bigger car and for a 3 litre it has slightly less bhp than the 123's 2 litre engine, looks good all the same. Is the 320D the 177 bhp version as in the 120D or is it still the older 163??

The 3.0 litre would have a much better sounding straight 6, and the better refinement that only a straight 6 can have, and it's average fuel consumption is 47.9 mpg, or CO2 emissions of 155 g/km(manual only), so it's not a lot worse than a 123d. It would cost €290 to tax compared to €150 for the 123d.

The 320d has 177 bhp, like the 120d. A 325d SE should cost around €46,900 in July, compared to €53,600 now. The 325d M Sport should fall in price from €59,100 to €51,713. A 320d SE now costs €50,850. A 123d M Sport should cost about €41,800 or thereabouts after July, compared to €50,155 now.

If you look at the VRT thread you will see where I'm getting these figures from. I was the person who created these. There are price lists, complete with the prices for Alfa-Mazda inclusive, as well as Toyota in there of what those cars should cost. There will be the complete list eventually, when I get the time to finish it off.

Drive both and see what you like the most, and go for that!

JHMEG

E92 wrote:

Wrong again. See above. Its getting wearisome at this stage having to tell you that they do have EfficientDynamics.

My options are to believe you or to believe BMW websites. Look at brand new 325's for sale on carzone.. the dealers don't know if they're 3 or 2.5 litre either.

E92 wrote:

it hardly makes sense to import completely different cars.

Huh? It made sense to bring a cheapo 316i all the way from South Africa.

South Africa is also rhd, so if they can delay it there, they can delay it here.

Your condescending tones do nothing to help you.

E92

A 316i has a higher pre VRT price than a 318i JHMEG. The only reason it is cheaper than a 318i is because of VRT. And that is presumably the reason why it is going to disappear in July. I presume this fact is the reason why they bothered to make it,since we were the only RHD market that would buy such a car.

Judging by the amount of ads of cars with wrong info, I wouldn't take anything dealers say too seriously(not that I am trying to excuse it or anything), though as all the 325s on sale at the moment are 07s or earlier, I presume they are 2.5 litre, though I *believe* it is a 3.0 in the case of Cabrios but I'm not sure really. What I do know is all 2008 MY 3 series have EfficientDynamics and therefore all 2008 MY 325i's would defiantly be 3.0. Maybe some late 07 3 series would have ED, but I doubt it, since they were only meant to have gotten here in October, and who buys a new car in October? It is impossible to tell, short of starting the car whether ED is present or not really in the case of the 3 series, 116i and 520d.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

A 316i has a higher pre VRT price than a 318i JHMEG.

Not the point, but that's the current model. When they were both 1.9 there was still a cheaper 316.

The long and short of it is that right now you cannot advise someone to go out and buy a 325i on the basis that what they'll get is a 170g model, as no-one is sure if the 325i's already in the channel are the 170g models or not, incl dealers.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Not the point, but that's the current model. When they were both 1.9 there was still a cheaper 316.

Ehh.. it is really:p! The old 316i was sold in all of Europe, including the UK. The current one is an Irish special(though it is sold in Turkey too). That is the difference.

JHMEG wrote: »

The long and short of it is that right now you cannot advise someone to go out and buy a 325i on the basis that what they'll get is a 170g model, as no-one is sure if the 325i's already in the channel are the 170g models or not, incl dealers.

You were lecturing me about being condescending, now you're being pedantic. The OP wants a diesel, I only mentioned the 325i in response to smcgiff who reckoned that 179 g/km was good for a 2.4 diesel, and I said I don't think so and why, and anyway, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a 325i now, when come July it will be in the 24% VRT category and will cost almost €700 less a year to tax then.

According to BMW UK, the 6 series with ED arrived there in September, and so did the 3 series with ED, now here is a 635d which does have EfficientDynamics, so it is safe to assume that there are ED 3 series in the country, especially as BMW Ireland said that the 6 series with ED went on sale in October.

As there are no new 325is in stock on carzone, if you want a brand new 325i it would have to be imported into the country, so you would be guaranteed ED as standard.

HashSlinging

RobAMerc wrote: »

Omega man - you'll be disappointed if you think you'll get the 123d M Sport coupe for 42k I am afraid - your talking closer to 50k without leather !

Perhaps come July - maybe some of the VRt aficionado's might be able to tell us ?

Also 200bhp - 50mpg and €150 road tax per year, i would think is farily hard to beat. But I am lucky in that I think the coupe looks great!

Thats mental Co2 the VAG group 2.0 170 is Level (g/km): 161 €430

The Co2 for the 325D is 170 g/km €430

I seriously doubt the 123D is in the 121-140 grams per km (€150) band.

If its all true well I dont think theres any competition, apart from the retail price that is.

E92

HashSlinging wrote: »

Thats mental Co2 the VAG group 2.0 170 is Level (g/km): 161 €430

The Co2 for the 325D is 170 g/km €430

I seriously doubt the 123D is in the 121-140 grams per km (€150) band.

123d: 138 g/km, 16% VRT, €150 road tax.
325d: 155 g/km, 20% VRT, €290 road tax.
A3 TDI 170: 151 g/km, 20% VRT, €290 road tax.
A3 TDI 170 S-tronic: 156 g/km, 24% VRT, €430 road tax.
A3 TDI 170 Quattro: 173 g/km, 28% VRT, €600 road tax.

See the VRT sticky and the Audi and BMW xls files. That's where I took this data from, which in turn came from BMW UK and Audi Germany.

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

123d: 138 g/km, 16% VRT, €150 road tax.

And that is commendable.

My point was though if this figure includes the ASS, and the ASS can be bypassed (as I hope it can, because hearing a diesel start 40 times on the way to work would irritate me!), it is a very clever ploy by BMW to get their cars into lower tax bands in most EU countries. Fair play to them for doing it though!

Henry Ford III

E92 I'm getting seriously worried about you

alpina

:mad:

I know I'm way off topic and I do apologise..

I'm glad to see that the constant BMW bashing that rears it's head so often here& elsewhere has actually been addressed...

If one does not fancy a Beemer, fine!! but Je*us this repetitive animosity and almost indignation towards those that do & are fortunate enough to drive one is mind blowing.
So many people appear to have a personal grudge towards the manufacturer which somehow transcends towards the owners also.

"A BMW! God they're a ****E car..."
"Tosser! Poseur! Show Off, who does he think he is?"
"I wouldn't drive one of those.."

I have had a Beemer since the good old days of college, albeit a 1980 3 series which robbed me of any spare cash on petrol & omitted a fine blue twister when the accelerator was any bit abused..
but I have always admired them and have been fortunate enough to stick with one since, thankfully I have moved to new ones these days.
They were rare in the '80s/90's and were an admired car by many, and now appear to be everywhere, but amazingly disliked by the majority! a tad confusing you would think.

In some instances it appears that, "if I can't have one, I don't like them..but if I manage to get one...God they're a great car!"

Now I'll probably be hung~drawn & quartered for some of these comments but God get a bloody life, no one is forcing you to buy one or even like them so stop sharing/forcing your negative opinions about them,
we will drive them if we like them and can survive without the running negative commentary.

I wonder how many will convert with the favourable omissions after July? All I can say is you are very welcome, but be thick skinned!

E92

ASS can be turned off maidhc. The thing is if it couldn't be turned off we'd have people complaining that it will wear out the starter much faster, and then when it can be turned off people complain again because it has an "unfair advantage". People can't have it both ways.

As I said in earlier posts, even without ASS, ED in a 6 cylinder petrol gives you CO2 emissions equivalent to a similar size diesel or better, or the CO2 emissions of a 4 cylinder petrol. The 6 cylinder diesel manuals do better still, almost as good as a 4 cylinder diesel, with the Autos surprisingly quite close the 6 cylinder petrols. So I don't think ASS makes that much of a difference.

All that said, arguing that the EU should test the car with ASS turned off isn't a bad idea at all, but then again they should test cars with things like aircon etc on too and they don't. They don't test hybrids at 5 degress or lower either, and ASS doesn't work at those temperatures or lower in them AFAIK. Whether ASS works or not is debatable, but if it gets cars into lower VRT and road tax rates then that is enough to justify it's existence!

As JHMEG kindly pointed out for us earlier a 325i without EfficientDynamics pollutes 203 g/km, a 325i with EfficientDynamics does 170 g/km, so that is 33 g/km better, a 16.25% cut, and no auto start stop there!

A 320d did 151 g/km before it gained ED, it now does 128 g/km and that has ED(incl ASS), and that is a cut of 23 g/km or a 15.23% cut, so as you can see there, the percentage cut of a BMW without ASS is actually better than one with ASS, proof IMO that ASS doesn't make much of a difference to improving fuel economy!

E92

Henry Ford III wrote: »

E92 I'm getting seriously worried about you

I'm getting worried that all people will think is that I am a BMW obsessive, just because I've been trying to promote their EfficientDynamics technology. Then again people probably already think that, a bit late to be saying it now:D, even though as recently as yesterday I said the following

E92 wrote: »

A BMW 318i would come in just over the OP's budget after July as well at €35,569 for the 318i ES but it is small for what the OP needs, so that's out too.

And in this thread I also criticised BMW for going off with all those niche models like the X1, X6 etc. If people read everything I post they will see that I think highly of lots of other cars too, and that I know plenty about other cars as well. There is far more to life and to cars than BMW.