Anti teen pregnancy posters

Peared

First off, about the vaginas I was speaking about straight after the birth. Also there are a lot of women whos bits are never the same again.

About the celebs. Im not saying for one moment they should not have babies in case teenagers decide to copy them. Im saying that they see glimpses of lifestyles they might aspire to, without knowing the full facts. Also two of those mentioned above got pregnant within months of meeting the fellas. It normalises it. Celebrity is god these days. Im not saying this has a huge part to play but it certainly alters some teens perception of pregnancy.

embee

Peared wrote: »

About the celebs. Im not saying for one moment they should not have babies in case teenagers decide to copy them. Im saying that they see glimpses of lifestyles they might aspire to, without knowing the full facts. Also two of those mentioned above got pregnant within months of meeting the fellas. It normalises it. Celebrity is god these days. Im not saying this has a huge part to play but it certainly alters some teens perception of pregnancy.

I don't understand why the length of time you're with someone if and when you get pregnant is important - is there some rule that I'm not aware of that says you aren't allowed to get pregnant if you've been with someone less than X months?!

My parents have been married since they were both 19. My brother was born when they were 18. They were together a year or maybe less when my Mother got pregnant. They will be married 29 years in March - does it really matter in the long run how old they were or how long they were together when my Mam got pregnant?

... I think that, whilst most teenage pregnancies are unplanned, the age of the parents is irrelevant. Maturity and responsibility are not things you get on your 21st birthday.

ztoical

embee wrote: »

I don't get this at all. I don't get why grown women are so freaked at the idea of your body doing what it is built for. It takes a lot to shock people these days - I don't think that viewing a birth is enough to deter a teenager from pregnancy. Birth is birth is birth no matter what age you are - it isn't any more "horrifying" at 14 than it is at 40.

I don't know - I'd seen a few videos and they didn't have any effect but channel 4 had a great series about child birth a couple of years back and they showed several births on the series - one woman wanted to go the whole no drugs, everything natural road and dear good I still have nightmares about it. I know thats what your built for blah blah blah but to a 14/15 that kind image might make you stop and think.

JC 2K3

Ideally sperm would just be collected from boys when they hit puberty and vasectomies would be performed on them. Freeze the sperm and implant into his future partner whenever they want kids.

It's so simple really....

Armin_Tamzarian

I've known plenty of girls who became pregnant whilst in their teens.
In most cases they've gone on to have good lives and have been good
parents with decent kids.
I've often wondered, but never asked, if such anit-teen pregnancy campaigns cause them offence.
Perhaps these campaigns would be better using STDs to warn against unprotected sex.

ztoical

The best anit teen pregnancy material I ever saw was a comic book by Katherine Arnoldi called The Amazing True Story of a Teenage Single Mom Its the true story of what the author went through when she found herself pregnant and thrown out by her parents and how she not only got through it but went to college and had a great life. It doesn't promote teenage pregnancy but shows girls its not the end of their lives if they do find themselves in that situation.

Arnoldi travels around the states going to high schools and middle schools to give out copies of the comic and to talk to the students.

Crumble Froo

with regards the videos, it'd never dawned on us how painful the whole thing might be, until that video. and... well, it's something to think about next tmie putting a condom on seems like a bit much effort.

for me, the biggest reason for contraception is the thought of having my own child,a nd my life changing completely as a result. personally, i think that that is the kind of thing that needs to be put across in ads.

randylonghorn

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Ideally sperm would just be collected from boys when they hit puberty and vasectomies would be performed on them. Freeze the sperm and implant into his future partner whenever they want kids.

Would you like to volunteer for the pilot project?

tallaght01

The problem is that teen pregnancy is multifactorial.

But we only ever deal with it one dimensionally.

It relates to lack of education, sure. But that's in the context of social class, peer pressure, parental example and self esteem, amongst other issues.

We so rarely deal with these issues as a whole package.

I recently looked after a 13 year old with twins in work. It's a really freaky dynamic to watch.

It's a sad fact that it's becoming more common for me, as a paediatrician, to have a mum and her baby both under my care.

There is a bottom line though, that's almost guaranteed to improve teenage pregnancy rates.. and that's improvement in socio-economic class. It's a simple fact that the more deprived your background, the more likely you are to have an earlier pregancy.

When teenagers in deprived areas within prosperous countries start seeing some of the benefits of economic development, then you'll see the picture improving.

cuckoo

tallaght01 wrote: »

I recently looked after a 13 year old with twins in work. It's a really freaky dynamic to watch.

It's a sad fact that it's becoming less common for me, as a paediatrician, to have a mum and her baby both under my care.

:eek:

Are the scarily young parents themselves ever asked what factors could have delayed them becoming parents, eg education, awareness of how needy/expensive/loud babies are?

And, tallaght, out of curiousity - are the fathers of these babies on the scene much? Also (and,yeah, i'm reaching for a cliche perhaps...) are the fathers of these young mothers around much as well?

LadyJ

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Perhaps these campaigns would be better using STDs to warn against unprotected sex.

I agree that teens should also be educated about the dangers of unprotected sex with regard to STDs, however, when I was a teenager STDs were certainly not what crossed my mind when I was making my boyfriend put on a condom. It was the idea of getting pregnant in my teens!

Imo, if you want teens to use contraception then play the baby card. They will respond better I reckon. I still think that we should warn them about health issues but the thought of pregnancy is most prevalent in young people's minds I believe. If scaring them about their lives being turned upside down by having a baby will get them to use contraception then it will obviously help to prevent the STDs too.

tallaght01

cuckoo wrote: »

:eek:

Are the scarily young parents themselves ever asked what factors could have delayed them becoming parents, eg education, awareness of how needy/expensive/loud babies are?

And, tallaght, out of curiousity - are the fathers of these babies on the scene much? Also (and,yeah, i'm reaching for a cliche perhaps...) are the fathers of these young mothers around much as well?

These teenagers usually don't want to talk about their reasons for getting pregnant with a load of doctors and nurses, by and large. Certainly not when we're seeing them in the days after delivery, when their baby is often unwell too (these mums have higher rates of complications, and their babies are often quite unwell).

Sometimes we get to chat to them about it. When they do discuss it with us, as patronising as it sounds, I don't think their answers usually reflect the reality of the bigger picture. They may say "The reason I got pregnant was because I didn't know you could get pregnant if he pulled out". But why did they think that? Why did they not have the confidence to say they didn't want o have sex? Why were they on their own in their house for a week etc etc.

These kids are young and vulnerable. They are at risk in more ways than they know themselves. Therefore, I think it's up to society to work out why they become pregnant, and not the teenagers themselves.

The answer to your other question is no and no, sadly.

The father of the teenage mum has very very often not been on the scene in donkeys years. Of course, many teenage pregnancies happen in happy, loving homes, but most happen in the type of homes you would expect them to happen in, unfortunately.

I always feel sad for the fathers of the baby. You're a 13 or 14 year old boy. It's the shock of your life. The bravado flies out the window pretty quickly. The mum gets virtually all the attention and support. The dad ends up a kind of lost soul, often banned from seeing his girlfriend, and treated like the bad guy by her family. You can imagine how the families of these girls often treat the guy responsible! His family often don't want to be associated with an early teen pregancy, so they're happy to keep their distance too.

And all the while you have a 13 year old kid, who has often never experienced fathering himself at home, who has a child. He doesn't know what to do, or how to cope. So, what does he do? He walks away and ignores it.

The whole thing just becomes an unholy mess.

Peared

embee wrote: »

I don't understand why the length of time you're with someone if and when you get pregnant is important - is there some rule that I'm not aware of that says you aren't allowed to get pregnant if you've been with someone less than X months?!

My parents have been married since they were both 19. My brother was born when they were 18. They were together a year or maybe less when my Mother got pregnant. They will be married 29 years in March - does it really matter in the long run how old they were or how long they were together when my Mam got pregnant?

... I think that, whilst most teenage pregnancies are unplanned, the age of the parents is irrelevant. Maturity and responsibility are not things you get on your 21st birthday.

Yes I think it can matter how old you are when you get pregnant. There is a big difference between a 13 year old and a 19 year old getting pregnant yet they are both teen pregnancies. Of course you dont automatically gain parenting skills at a certain age but its fair to say a 25 year old will be more mentally prepared than a 15 year old. That doesnt mean a better parent, some of the best mums I know were teenage mums. But while their child wanted for nothing and turned out great they themselves didnt even finish school and do not have the lives they deserve. Fair play to your folks embee but there are always exceptions. The reality for most teenage girls is that there will not be a father around to help them bring up the child and they will struggle.

And no I dont think you need to be with someone for x amount of time before getting pregnant. I was simply saying that many young confused/lonely girls look up to celebrities and sometimes apply their behaviour to their own lives. Thats not blaming anyone or making a judgement on it, its simply a fact.

I dont "disapprove" of young single parents. I see the abuse they get and the way most struggle on a daily basis and my heart goes out to them. I just think they and their babies deserve more than that kind of life usually gives them.

Getting back to the ad campaign, I do think young girls need to be shown the reality of this life in a way that will strike a chord with them. Im not quite sure what that is but silly pregnant fellas isnt it.

Quality

narco wrote: »

with regards the videos, it'd never dawned on us how painful the whole thing might be, until that video. and... well, it's something to think about next tmie putting a condom on seems like a bit much effort.

Peared wrote: »

Yes I think it can matter how old you are when you get pregnant. There is a big difference between a 13 year old and a 19 year old getting pregnant yet they are both teen pregnancies. Of course you dont automatically gain parenting skills at a certain age but its fair to say a 25 year old will be more mentally prepared than a 15 year old. That doesnt mean a better parent, some of the best mums I know were teenage mums. But while their child wanted for nothing and turned out great they themselves didnt even finish school and do not have the lives they deserve. Fair play to your folks embee but there are always exceptions. The reality for most teenage girls is that there will not be a father around to help them bring up the child and they will struggle.

I dont think the hard part of having a child is the giving birth to it, That pain is pain with a purpose.

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

I also would like to say that not having the father on the scene is not indictive that a parent is going to struggle. There are plenty of single parents out there doing a fine job of raising there kids on their own...

tallaght01

Quality wrote: »

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

True, everyone finds raising a child difficult but a 13 year old is going to have a LOT more trouble raising a child than someone who is, say, 25.

Also, the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc. Plus how it affects the life of their family, who often have to act as de facto parents for the new baby

Peared

tallaght01 wrote: »

True, everyone finds raising a child difficult but a 13 year old is going to have a LOT more trouble raising a child than someone who is, say, 25.

Also, the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc. Plus how it affects the life of their family, who often have to act as de facto parents for the new baby

Thanks tallaght thats what I have been trying to say but some people seem to just want to disagree with someone who in fact is saying the same thing as them

Quality

As far as I am aware there are some quite good educational opportunities for teen parents in this country. A lot of the Health boards are encouraging young mothers to go back to school and offer child care.

I think pregnancy will effect your life socially no matter what age you are.

It is sad when a young girl gets pregnant, I would not like to see my daughter as a young pregnant teen.


I think if you ask someone who is unable to concieve a child if they had of had an opportunity to have a teen pregnancy would they have gone ahead with it, I think they would have grasped it.

Life is a gift and should be embraced..

Bottle_of_Smoke

They should show images of crowning. Though might result in a general decline in population.

embee

Quality wrote: »

I dont think the hard part of having a child is the giving birth to it, That pain is pain with a purpose.

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

I also would like to say that not having the father on the scene is not indictive that a parent is going to struggle. There are plenty of single parents out there doing a fine job of raising there kids on their own...

I'd agree with everything you've said here, Quality. No matter what age you are when you first become a parent, it is difficult. I'm not disputing for a second that a teenage Mum would probably find it more difficult than someone in their late 20's or early 30's, but parenting is the biggest challenge I've ever undertaken in my life, and it doesn't stop. But definitely, a teenage mother does not immediately indicate a bad parent. A lot of these girls do it completely alone which for any Mother is very hard, and they do it well, so hats off to them.

tallaght01 wrote: »

the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc.

I agree with you, but again I would say that, no matter what age you are when you become pregnant and have your first child, sacrifices of some kind have to be made. I am back in college now after 9 years of being away from it. My daughter is 2. I wouldn't class myself as coming from a well to do background at all, but I am managing it. Yes, a baby affects a teenage girls life, but it doesn't end it. Educational opportunities are always there if you want to take them - they don't go away. There should be more support for young parents, and access to support groups and schemes which encourage the parent to better themselves through education, training etc. is crucial.

Quality wrote: »

I think pregnancy will effect your life socially no matter what age you are.

It is sad when a young girl gets pregnant, I would not like to see my daughter as a young pregnant teen.

Life is a gift and should be embraced..

I would also prefer not to see my daughter as a teenage mother either, because it would press pause on her own development for a while, but if she did come to me as a teenager and tell me that she was pregnant, what's a parent to do? You can't turn your back on your child because they've done something to disappoint you. I'd hope for her to have some experience of adulthood by herself, to learn about who she is and what she wants from her life before she had children, because I think it would make her a better person, and ergo a better parent, in the long run.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They should show images of crowning. Though might result in a general decline in population.

Crowning isn't that bad. Show them a placenta being delivered... now that's gross.

tallaght01

Quality and embee, I'm not sure exactly what points you're making.

If you're saying that teenage mums can be good parents....that's fine. Girls in their later teens can and do.

Girls who are 13, 14, 15 years old really really struggle with it, by and large. If they don't it's usually because their parents/relatives help them out (or do everything for the baby).

They bring their babies to kiddy A+E all the time. They really don't have a clue. The babies are filthy, obese and sitting in A+E with nothing more than a runny nose half the time. And God love them, how would they know any better? They're only children themselves.

There may be educational opportunities for them, that's true. My mum runs a creche where she looks after their kids. But, it's a couple of hours a few days a week. Certainly where I live it is. They can do an odd leaving cert subject. But at the rate the classes are thought, it would take them about 5 years to complete the leaving cert cycle.

Then they have to think about work. They have a kid, so they need to work. They're at work, so they can't attend classes etc etc.

The point I'm making is that I don't think teenage pregnancies are good for anyone.

The babies don't tend to be as well looked after. The mums themselves tend to struggle. The grannies end up doing a LOT of the work, even though they've already raised their babies. It also puts extra pressures on the grannies, in terms of the financial and time commitments.

Sure a teenager can make a god parent. But these pragnancies are usually accidental. There's a good reason both of you said you wouldn't want to see your daughter as a pregnant teenager.

embee

tallaght01 wrote: »

Quality and embee, I'm not sure exactly what points you're making.

If you're saying that teenage mums can be good parents....that's fine. Girls in their later teens can and do.

Girls who are 13, 14, 15 years old really really struggle with it, by and large. If they don't it's usually because their parents/relatives help them out (or do everything for the baby).

They bring their babies to kiddy A+E all the time. They really don't have a clue. The babies are filthy, obese and sitting in A+E with nothing more than a runny nose half the time. And God love them, how would they know any better? They're only children themselves.

There may be educational opportunities for them, that's true. My mum runs a creche where she looks after their kids. But, it's a couple of hours a few days a week. Certainly where I live it is. They can do an odd leaving cert subject. But at the rate the classes are thought, it would take them about 5 years to complete the leaving cert cycle.

Then they have to think about work. They have a kid, so they need to work. They're at work, so they can't attend classes etc etc.

The point I'm making is that I don't think teenage pregnancies are good for anyone.

The babies don't tend to be as well looked after. The mums themselves tend to struggle. The grannies end up doing a LOT of the work, even though they've already raised their babies. It also puts extra pressures on the grannies, in terms of the financial and time commitments.

Sure a teenager can make a god parent. But these pragnancies are usually accidental. There's a good reason both of you said you wouldn't want to see your daughter as a pregnant teenager.

tallaght01,

The reason I said I'd prefer not to see my daughter as a teenage Mum was already outlined in my last post, and it has nothing to do with the idea that maybe I'd end up doing the majority of the care, or the social stigma attached to it - it is primarily that I would like her to experience her adulthood on her own, and make her own way in the world first. If she left school after the Leaving Cert, went to college or worked for a few years and got pregnant at 24 or 25, it would be okay - not ideal, but it would be okay, if she was happy. I wouldn't shun her - if she had experienced her adulthood, even briefly, than that is infinitely preferable to her having to have her own experiences once her child is grown up.

Oh yes, and a lot of first time pregnancies are accidental, no matter what age you are. I know mine was. It doesn't detract from my ability to look after myself and my daughter just because she was a happy accident.

There are definite misconceptions about the amount of teenage pregnancy occuring, though. People seem to think that teenage pregnancies are on the increase, but this isn't the case. The incidence of very young girls (aged 15 and under) having children in this country is lower than perceived. In 2005, 2% of all births to teenagers were to mothers aged 15 or under, so whilst teenage pregnancy is a problem, the incidence of very young girls having live births is still very low. In 2005, the number of live births per 1,000 females aged 15-19 was 16.8, which is almost on a par with the teenage birth rate in 1970, which was 16.3. That is a marked decline from the rate in 1999, where it was 20.2 live births per 1,000 females in that age bracket.


http://www.crisispregnancy.ie/pub/Statisticalreport2006.pdf

tallaght01

But embee, what I'm getting at is why you're making those points.

Do you think we shouldn't try and avoid teenage pregnancies?

I think the incidence of teenage pregnancies isn't the relevant issue here. It's the fact that it's totally preventable, yet we don't seem to be getting on top of the problems. The reasons I worry about it are:

It's more dangerous for the baby (depending on the age of mum)

It takes away a lot from mum's formative years

It can be financially crippling

It impacts hugely on the mum's immediate family

It impacts on mum's educational and social opportunities

It's an enormous emotional burden for a child to cope with.

That's why I think efforts should be made to curb teenage pregnancy. I'm only familiar with the stats in the UK, where we've had the highest rates in Europe. If your stats are correct, then we haven't made any inroads into the problem in Ireland since the 70s?

Though...do the stats take into acount the abortion rate?

And I don't think you can extend the logic of "I had an accidental pregnancy and raised my child fine" to therefore "if a 14 year old girls has an acidental pregnancy she'll raises the child fine".

Just my opinions though.

Quality

I know what your getting at Tallaght,

But to be honest I dont think it is "totally preventable" as you put it..


It is like drink driving, You can put as many gruesome advertisements up,,, but its not going to do any damn good.

Nevyn

Mandatory free contraception for everyone under the age of 20.
IT certainly would cost a lot less per year then child benefit never mind anything else.

Quality

Thaedydal wrote: »

Mandatory free contraception for everyone under the age of 20.
IT certainly would cost a lot less per year then child benefit never mind anything else.

I dont know where to start on this one, Perhaps in first stating that is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard...



The pill is not 100% effective for one reason... Human error.

also it does not protect from stis

Can cause side effects, cant be used by all women.

I also dont think that it will stop teenage sex and would probably make younger people more promiscuous.

cuckoo

Quality wrote: »

But to be honest I dont think it is "totally preventable" as you put it..


It is like drink driving, You can put as many gruesome advertisements up,,, but its not going to do any damn good.

Good analogy - some people wouldn't dream of driving with one drink on them (maybe a family member/friend died in a road traffic accident), and others do.

Some teenage girls, maybe even some whole social classes of teenage girls, will not get pregnant in the first place, and others do.

The general opinion towards drink driving is changing, i know my generation is less tolerant of it than my parents, but we're not seeing the same happen amongst certain groups of society regarding teenage pregnancy.

There were approx 100 girls in my year in school, and there were no pregnancies before the LC. For all i know half my year went on 'shopping trips' to London, however everyone sat the LC and most went to third level. It was assumed that we would - if people were sexually active they made sure they were on the pill and/or used condoms, it was drilled into us that education was very important.

But, that cohort of 100 girls wasn't exactly a random sampling - there were parental incomes, expectations and assumptions going on there are there is in any social group.

So, do we wait for the 'rising tide' that we keep hearing about to change ALL social groupings so that everyone is education focused? Sex education doesn't seem to be the problem, as crap as it can be in Ireland the UK has been educating away and still have issues with unplanned teenage pregnancies.

It seems we're deserting a group of women, limiting their chances to get an education and life an adult life before becoming parents by not facilitating young parents to sit the LC in the first place - and somehow not getting the message across about preventing pregnancy in the first place. I don't ever want to go back to the bad old days when a young (single) mother is stigmatised - but have we become too ok with it?

And, while i am in no way implying that teenage automatically equals bad parent, we're ending up with a group of children who are perhaps not getting as good a start at life as they would have been their parents 5 years older. And, sadly, some of those children will go on to have their own children too young - while the 100 girls i was in school with 'do the australia thing', go to college, have a career and then have their children (or, have difficulty conceiving, but that's another thread all together).

Sometimes is just isn't fair.

ztoical

Quality wrote: »

I dont know where to start on this one, Perhaps in first stating that is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard...



The pill is not 100% effective for one reason... Human error.

also it does not protect from stis

Can cause side effects, cant be used by all women.

I also dont think that it will stop teenage sex and would probably make younger people more promiscuous.

better sex education would help alot with the failure rate of some contraception. There was a big thread over on after hours about the kind of sex education people had in school and it was scary the lack education that is out there. The vast majority of people [myself included] never had any education in school about how to put condoms on or the pill or other forums of contraception. You can say its not the schools job but the parents to teach kids that but not only are most parents not able to talk with their kids about sex, alot of them don't even know some of the most basic information about not only contraception but STI's as well.

I was lucky my mums a GP so I got pretty good information from her but when she asked my secondary school if she could come give a talk about family planning to students it was a flat out no - not even to 6th year students all of whom were 17 or over therefore over the age on constent and alot of them were 18 therefore able to vote.

And the notion that awareness of contraception makes teenagers promiscuous is bull. Simply look at countries that have decent sex education and their rates of teenage pregnancy. holland, norway, sweden, finland have some of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in europe.

LadyJ

Quality wrote: »

I dont know where to start on this one, Perhaps in first stating that is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard...



The pill is not 100% effective for one reason... Human error.

also it does not protect from stis

Can cause side effects, cant be used by all women.

I inferred condoms from what she said tbh.

I also dont think that it will stop teenage sex and would probably make younger people more promiscuous.

When I was a teenager it wasn't the price of condoms that made me think twice about having sex, it was mainly just that I knew that there was no sure way not to get pregnant regardless. However, I still had sex becuse I wanted to and went about it as safely as possible. Free condoms won't make teenagers have more sex imo, it will just make the sex that they are going to have anyway a lot safer.

Education is also the key here as some have already said.

Nevyn

Quality wrote: »

I dont know where to start on this one, Perhaps in first stating that is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard...



The pill is not 100% effective for one reason... Human error.

also it does not protect from stis

Can cause side effects, cant be used by all women.

I also dont think that it will stop teenage sex and would probably make younger people more promiscuous.

Where did I say the oral contraceptive pill for all ?

JC 2K3

I don't see how free condoms would help, it's not like teens can't afford them....

Personally, I don't think not using condoms would be the main cause of teenage pregnancy. The majority of cases are likely due to an accident occurring while using a condom.

If you looked at the stats for the ratio of unplanned pregnancies to the amount of people having sex for teenagers and for 20-40 year olds, I doubt they'd differ much. IMO it's much more down to human error, common to all age groups, rather than lack of education. I honestly can't envision any teenager in this day and age who doesn't at least have a basic grasp of the idea of using a condom.