best/worst make car in ireland

antodeco

Biro wrote: »

Don't forget the tin Honda's also! They're tin in a crash, and Mazda's are pure muck!

Guess you havent seen honda's new car!

barryfitz

Best:Hyundai anything
Worst: anything not Hyundai.

(me stirs away quietly)

prendy

best: VW
Toyota
worst: Fiat

VW + toyota because of reliabilty and value.(VW's pricey but hold value well)

Fiat...iv driven 2 different types and both were riddled with faults.

PaulKK

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

RE VW and Audi, I've owned A4s and Passats and I have to say that I found the Passat to be superior.
Mainly down to the handling / way it held the road.
The A4s seemed to be badly balanced in comparison and didn't handle sharp corners very well.

Interesting.. I own a passat and my father has an A4, I also prefer the passat, as I think the layout is nicer, and the seats are comfier etc, and the legroom in the back is unbeatable!


However I dont agree with the handling part, from my experiance the audi is a much sharper drive, the passat just doesnt have the sharp feel on the road and around corners that the audi has, I think it may be a different steering rack/ suspenson set up or something. Also the passat is a foot longer than the audi so it feels a much bigger car overall, more of a long distance cruiser.


As to the reliability of VW/Audi, I've had vws for the last 4 years, my father an audi for 9 years, my gf has one, multiple uncles, cousins and friends, and besides expensive main dealer servicing, no one has ever had any trouble with them.

Armin_Tamzarian

PaulKK wrote: »

However I dont agree with the handling part, from my experiance the audi is a much sharper drive, the passat just doesnt have the sharp feel on the road and around corners that the audi has, I think it may be a different steering rack/ suspenson set up or something.

What models were the Passats / Audis you drove.
My experience is from TDis, they were 2000-2002 models.
I used to get this feeling from the A4s that they were shifting about as I drove, handling like a boat type of thing.
It used to feel like they were badly balanced.
The Passat just seemed alot smoother.
I remember them commenting on Top Gear that the fact that Audi put their engines so far forward puts the balance off.
Passats have the engine just as far forward though so this wouldn't explain the difference.

Dcully

Best
Toyota,VW

Worst
Fiat,renault,citroen

AckwelFoley

LOL at anyone that thinks Opel is a bad make of car.. you obv had a late 90's early 2000 model corsa?

Opel are fine, yes Toyota are very reliable, ive never had one but i dont think i need have owned one to say they are pretty good.

Worst, by a loooonnnnnnnngggg way is those Ssang Yong ****boxes that are being sold... im buying a new car, im looking at the Opel Antara, but for the laugh i got into the Ssang Yong... i cant really cay much other than apart from the fact they use merc engines and transmissions they are dirt, ive actually seen some of these in a car sales that were never driven but have been out the back with mould growning up through them as they were been used for spares...

Armin_Tamzarian

prendy wrote: »

best: VW
Toyota
worst: Fiat

VW + toyota because of reliabilty and value.(VW's pricey but hold value well)

Fiat...iv driven 2 different types and both were riddled with faults.

+1


It's also good to see Opel getting a good bashing, I really hate them.
They must have the most horrible and boring interior ever.

cashmni1

Yes the Audi is shorter than the Passat. And the Passat is shorter than the Superb.
All use the exact same parts, (engine gearbox, ect.) in different models.
The A3 is a tarted up Golf, but I also think that the Golf is also overrated. I would pick a focus before a Golf.
I am not going to explain why, too many diferences.
As for reliability, I would have to say that all cars can be different. I used to own Peugeot Diesels and loved them. I found the HDi a super reliable car. i now own a VW TDI. No worries so far, but only my second VW and my first year with this car.

Armin_Tamzarian

The HDi has a great engine alright.
I'd a HDi 406 myself and found it to be great?
But choosing a Focus over a Golf?
Why?
I just personally don't see anything good about them, but I suppose I don't really like any Fords (well the standard ones anyway).

cjt156

The Golf, Jetta, Octavia, A3 and A4 use the same chassis, and largely the same engines.
Passat, A6 and Superb likewise; so its largely pointless to compare the Passat and the A4; you may as well argue the merits of the Focus over the Mondeo...

Masada

who was it said opels where good?., lol, just lol.,
I dont think theres any other car off the top of my head that can drink oil at the rate of a lot of opels including fairly modern ones.
And the guy who never heard of bugatti.,pmsl, we need him back here, he was good crack, although i I do like the old GT stalets for some reason, the Galanza just looks like a pimped up granny mobile compared to it., Having been rear ended at about 35MPH while i was stopped in traffic in a modern civic i can tell you that they hold up extremely well, there was absolutely no damage to the car other than the rear bumper. the wheel well was perfect and all.,

Armin_Tamzarian

Well to be fair, I drove a 1.7dTi Astra before and I have to say that I couldn't believe how quick it was.
It only had a few hundred miles on it but it was quicker than the HDi 406 that I had at the time.
Apart from the Monaro there's nothing else positive i can say about Opel.

I'm constantly getting stuck with them as rental cars / company cars etc.
and I really, really hate them.

I'm a fan of Honda too though.
I've never owned one but I love the older Type-Rs, I can't stand the shape of newer Civics though. I once had a loan of a SIR-II V-Tec and it was a rocket.
Integra Type-R's probably my favourite Honda.

(CH3)2CHOH

Best

Fiat Stilo 3dr
Renault Espace not the current model
Alfa GTV

Worst

VW Golf
Toyota Corolla
Merc C180

The 3 worst are due to being totally over rated and untruths about reliability. Except for the Corolla which is just the dullest car ever.

Armin_Tamzarian

(CH3)2CHOH wrote: »

Best

Fiat Stilo 3dr
Renault Espace not the current model
Alfa GTV

Worst

VW Golf
Toyota Corolla
Merc C180

The 3 worst are due to being totally over rated and untruths about reliability. Except for the Corolla which is just the dullest car ever.

I'd agree about the Merc, most Merc's in general are way overpriced IMO.
The basic Corolla is abit dull but it's one of the most reliable cars ever built.
The G6R Corolla is a very nice car and far from dull.

I don't see what people can have against the Golf.
I've driven loads of them and love them.
The way they hold the road is unbelievable.
The TDi is probably the best all-round Golf and the R32 is phenomenal.

cashmni1

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

The HDi has a great engine alright.
I'd a HDi 406 myself and found it to be great?
But choosing a Focus over a Golf?
Why?
I just personally don't see anything good about them, but I suppose I don't really like any Fords (well the standard ones anyway).

I just think that a Focus has better value for money appeal. Take the 1.4 petrol in both..
I just think that a golf is dated looking and bland inside and out. To be fair I don't know the exact prices of both but I would hazzard a guess that the VW is more expensive.

The ford just looks a better car to me and from the reviews the car drives very well and is underrated by the public.
Perhaps a golf and a focus were the wrong cars to make such a comparison, but what the hell..

MaxFlower

vtec wrote: »

who was it said opels where good?., lol, just lol.,
I dont think theres any other car off the top of my head that can drink oil at the rate of a lot of opels including fairly modern ones.

I am pretty neutral on Opels but I have a diesel Vectra that I bought for the purpose of hammering it up and down some poor irish roads (work commute). 254K and no major problems, never needs oil(s) and with the exception of suspension bits/bobs no major surgery required. A penal beater once told me he ranked them with Volvos for chassis strength in a crash.

Due to the high milage I'm guessing I will have trouble giving it away so I am currently trying to kill it so I have an excuse to buy my next car but it refuses to die! No affiliation to Opel by the way.

Top car
Honda Accord

Worst car
I once saw a Daewoo Matiz that collapsed on its front wheel when mounting a kerb.

Armin_Tamzarian

cashmni1 wrote: »

I just think that a Focus has better value for money appeal. Take the 1.4 petrol in both..
I just think that a golf is dated looking and bland inside and out. To be fair I don't know the exact prices of both but I would hazzard a guess that the VW is more expensive.

The ford just looks a better car to me and from the reviews the car drives very well and is underrated by the public.
Perhaps a golf and a focus were the wrong cars to make such a comparison, but what the hell..

I think you can get a new entry level Golf for ~€22K.
I'd agree with you about the Golf's exterior, it could be described as bland.
I find the interior decent though, the blue dash, comfortable seats, cup holders, etc.

My main problem with Fords is that they feel very light and tinny with a cheap plastic feel to the interiors.
I don't like driving them either, they just feel poorly made.

The only Golfs I've driven are TDis and Gtis and both felt really solid and stuck to the road, perhaps the 1.4/1.6 petrol models aren't as good.

I'll probably need to get a second car soon for commuting and I'll probably go for a TDi Golf.

Toon--soldier

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

There's probably also a Scoda and a Seat that belong to the same family as the A3 and the Golf.

But like I said before I'd take the Tdi Golf over the A3 equivalent.

Is there any A3 equivalent to the Gti, VR6, and R32?
Like a RS3?
I've heard of RS3s but I've never seen one.

there is an s3

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/264955.htm The mtm versions are crazy

Biro

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I don't see what people can have against the Golf.
I've driven loads of them and love them.
The way they hold the road is unbelievable.
The TDi is probably the best all-round Golf and the R32 is phenomenal.

The last 3 statements there pretty much answer the first one. It's everyone's opinion of a reasonably good car that causes me to hate them.
The way they hold the road is not unbelievable. The mk 4 Golf is a poor handling car. Reasonable levels of grip at best with no feed back and a mediocre chassis. It's just comfortable for an average driver, well insulated and well put together with below average electrics. There's really nothing more can be said about them. The TDi's were grand in their day, but are out classed now, you need to go for the 2 litre TDi's to match competition.
Also, a 130bhp TDi Golf is NOT fast. It's NOT an animal. Anyone who thinks that was never in a car with real power. The Focus is a better handling car, which is why VW went and put independent rear suspension in the Mk 5 golf.

furtzy

vtec wrote: »

who was it said opels where good?., lol, just lol.,
I dont think theres any other car off the top of my head that can drink oil at the rate of a lot of opels including fairly modern ones.
.,

I've had 5 and never had any oil consumption problems. In fact never had any major problems at all.

Is this your view based on ownership?

Armin_Tamzarian

Well I'd have to disagree about the handling.
I hammered a MkIV Tdi Golf before and it absolutely stuck to the road.
I don't think anyone's calling the Tdi an 'animal' the basic TDi gives 90Bhp which is far from exciting but it still gives a respectable amount of power for an every day car.

Nobody's trying to claim that a TDi Golf is an amazing, high performance car.
It's just a very well made hatchback with plenty of room inside.
I don't know of any hatchback that I'd view as being superior.
If I have to get something for commuting It'll be a toss up between a Golf and a Passat.
The Passat has the advantage of extra space and comfort and
the Golf has the advantage of better performance and handling.

AckwelFoley

I dont think theres any other car off the top of my head that can drink oil at the rate of a lot of opels including fairly modern ones.

Many opel cars use fiat engines

Worst ive ever seen for taking oil was the mid to late 1990's ford fiests, you'd need a gallon of it in the boot at all times.

Armin_Tamzarian

snyper wrote: »

Many opel cars use fiat engines

Worst ive ever seen for taking oil was the mid to late 1990's ford fiests, you'd need a gallon of it in the boot at all times.

I had this experience with a battered up 1992 Fiasco.
I used to have to put in 1L of oil evrey time I put £10 of petrol into it.

I never knew Opel use Fiat engines.

furtzy

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I never knew Opel use Fiat engines.

Only the 1.9 diesel

Theboinkmaster

Pointless thread - there is no best or worst car, totally depends on the individual's needs and tastes

How anyone can put a VW golf into the 'worst' category is beyond me

like.no.other

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I would have thought the worst would be something Korean.....like Kia or those horible TaTa things from India

Well having read the thread I'd say most here don't know much about cars. Seems most are based on pub talk or hearsay rather than ownership or facts.

To know the worst cars at the moment all you have to do is look at the recall section in one of the trade mags. Fiat and Renault seems to be leading the way.

siralfalot

this thread is nuts, some of the posts are to silly to comprehend

AckwelFoley

furtzy wrote: »

Only the 1.9 diesel

& 1.3L TDi

prendy

Best

Fiat Stilo 3drRenault Espace not the current model
Alfa GTV

Worst

VW Golf
Toyota Corolla
Merc C180

The 3 worst are due to being totally over rated and untruths about reliability. Except for the Corolla which is just the dullest car ever.

im sorry bot lol at this post...anyone who has ANY fiat in among the best cars loses all respect. and the corolla is always voted one of the top cars in this country.never had a merc so cant comment.

Armin_Tamzarian

siralfalot wrote: »

this thread is nuts, some of the posts are to silly to comprehend

It's just a harmless discussion about cars.
Of course the best / worst cars are just down to peoples own tastes / opinions and will vary greatly.
I like discussing cars so IMO this is a pretty decent thread as they go.
Especially compared to mindless drivel such as this.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055215831&highlight=banned+green

Now that's a pointless thread.

(CH3)2CHOH

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Pointless thread - there is no best or worst car, totally depends on the individual's needs and tastes

How anyone can put a VW golf into the 'worst' category is beyond me

Thats my point with my list. It can only be on personal experience, I'm not going to pick a best or worst car without actually having genuine reason's why.

My wife has out up 115000 miles on her Espace absolutely trouble free, it take us over and back to the UK with 3 kids and 3 weeks worth of luggage/toys in total comfort. When we moved house I moved everything using the Espace including the 3 couch's, double beds etc....

My Fiat Stilo has now done 45,000 miles again totally trouble free.
Handles great and the 1.2 engine is super ecconomical (6speed) but faster than a 1.4 Golf up to the legal limit.

The GTV is probably my next car, since I love the styling and the t-spark engine.


I picked the Golf as so bad since a very good friend had to have 3 head gaskets replaced on her 1.4 Golf which she bought brand new. The dealer consantly tried to blame her driving style and shift the problem onto her, the 3rd time it happened he even tried to deny the Gasket was gone again. She eventually traded it in for a Bora and had a years worth of problems with the rear suspension.

The standard Corrolla is really just transport. Sorry but just no charisma and the one's with the round headlights. Puke city

Merc C180 again is put down for piss poor reliability. My uncle had older Merc's for years, never would drive anything else. But he had so much trouble with his C180 ( like 1200 to replace a faulty ignition switch :eek:) he
went and bought a Mondeo

Armin_Tamzarian

3 Head Gaskets???
There's something seriously wrong there.
Head gaskets generally go as a result of an overheat caused by radiator failure, etc.

For 3 to go on the one car threre must have been a serious fault somewhere else in the car that was causing this.
Or else the mechanic was seriously dodgy.

I'm pretty sure I've never heard of 3 head gaskets going on the one car before, even a Rover...

maidhc

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I've never heard of 3 head gaskets going on the one car before, even a Rover...

You never heard of the MGF so!

E92

As Top Gear said in the 2001 JD power survey "F for failure"!

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

As Top Gear said in the 2001 JD power survey "F for failure"!

Having said that you can pick up VERY clean ones now for ~€1000-2000 that need a HG. They are actually much cheaper in Ireland than in the UK. All you need to do is put in the modified gaskets, and make a few other reasonably cheap modifications and you have open top motoring for under €3k.

Armin_Tamzarian

Meh... MG, aren't they just Rovers with an identity crisis.

Biro

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Well I'd have to disagree about the handling.
I hammered a MkIV Tdi Golf before and it absolutely stuck to the road.
I don't think anyone's calling the Tdi an 'animal' the basic TDi gives 90Bhp which is far from exciting but it still gives a respectable amount of power for an every day car.

Nobody's trying to claim that a TDi Golf is an amazing, high performance car.
It's just a very well made hatchback with plenty of room inside.
I don't know of any hatchback that I'd view as being superior.
If I have to get something for commuting It'll be a toss up between a Golf and a Passat.
The Passat has the advantage of extra space and comfort and
the Golf has the advantage of better performance and handling.

I have heard people saying the 130bhp TDi golf is an "animal", that's the reason I said it in my post. And the only people I ever hear bragging on about their car are Golf owners. And handling by and large is opinion driven, but there is some hard and fast rules about it and you are wrong about the handling, plain and simple. There is more to handling than road holding.
For a given year, lets say 2003, a 1.4 3 door civic is a better car in every way than a 1.4 golf. A VW head will never let that be said though, cause they're usually blinded by the VW way of thinking.

Biro

What surprises me the most is that people automatically define the "best" car as the most reliable car. Is the best Engineer in the world the one with the best attendance record?

Armin_Tamzarian

Biro wrote: »

There is more to handling than road holding.

Fair enough, I'll say that I was extemely impressed by the Golf's road holding then.

Again, I never said the Golf was the best car, just that it's a very good car. I like the Civic myself but I'd prefer the older models to the 2003+ models.

As well as all the other good points that the Golf has it's also available with a very good diesel engine.
It's the TDi model that I'd go for and not the 1.4 / 1.6 petrol.

Honda don't make a diesel Civic and that's a major drawback from my point of view.
If you get into comparing higher end Civics to higher end Golfs I don't think the Civic would come on top either.

Orange69

(CH3)2CHOH wrote: »

Best

Fiat Stilo 3dr
Renault Espace not the current model
Alfa GTV

Worst

VW Golf
Toyota Corolla
Merc C180

I lol'd...

Biro

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Again, I never said the Golf was the best car,

Armin_Tamzarian wrote:

I don't know of any hatchback that I'd view as being superior.

That's how I'd take the above statement...

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I like the Civic myself but I'd prefer the older models to the 2003+ models.

As well as all the other good points that the Golf has it's also available with a very good diesel engine.
It's the TDi model that I'd go for and not the 1.4 / 1.6 petrol.

Honda don't make a diesel Civic and that's a major drawback from my point of view.
If you get into comparing higher end Civics to higher end Golfs I don't think the Civic would come on top either.

They make a diesel civic, but Honda Ireland don't import it here. Maybe after July. Also, high end Golf and high end Civic, Mk4 GTi vs Civic Type R, no question which is better in my mind. The R32 isn't worth the money.

Armin_Tamzarian

There's a huge difference between a car being the best hatchback and being the best car.

Why a GTi Vs a Type-R?
Why not a R32 Vs a Typr-R?

You can pick up a decent s/hand R32 for €15,000+VRT in the UK.
Money well spent in my book.

I've never driven a Type-R so I can't say much about them.
I did drive a V-Tec Civic though, one of those special edition Jordan ones.
I found it to be overrated and alot slower than I'd expected.
Especially when you cosider how hard it is to get insured on one.
The FTO that I owned at the time was way quicker.

Theboinkmaster

Biro wrote: »

I have heard people saying the 130bhp TDi golf is an "animal", that's the reason I said it in my post. And the only people I ever hear bragging on about their car are Golf owners. And handling by and large is opinion driven, but there is some hard and fast rules about it and you are wrong about the handling, plain and simple. There is more to handling than road holding.
For a given year, lets say 2003, a 1.4 3 door civic is a better car in every way than a 1.4 golf. A VW head will never let that be said though, cause they're usually blinded by the VW way of thinking.

Erm Biro that is incorrect ("a 1.4 3 door civic is a better car in every way than a 1.4 golf") - that's just your opinion it certainly is not fact

Some may prefer the golf as they believe it looks better, nicer interior etc - one car is not "better" than the other

You can prefer one to the other that is your right of course, just like it is someone else's right to prefer the golf without being called "blinded"....

Plug

prendy wrote: »

im sorry bot lol at this post...anyone who has ANY fiat in among the best cars loses all respect. and the corolla is always voted one of the top cars in this country.never had a merc so cant comment.

Its based on peoples own opion.
but I agree with you there!

Masada

furtzy wrote: »

I've had 5 and never had any oil consumption problems. In fact never had any major problems at all.

Is this your view based on ownership?

Yep, have bought and sold a few. Ive worked on a hell of a lot of them in the garage too. the petrol ones are the ones that seem to drink a lot of oil and thats a known fact with opels, some of them also suffer from electrical problems and the smaller engines like the 1.2 mk4 astra and the 3 cylinder corsa are somplete sh*te.,

snyper wrote: »

Many opel cars use fiat engines

they only use fiats diesel engines and there a brilliant engine to be honest.,

like.no.other wrote:

To know the worst cars at the moment all you have to do is look at the recall section in one of the trade mags. Fiat and Renault seems to be leading the way.

recalls mean very little really, a lot of cars have recalls and it just means that they are rectifying something that might go wrong at some point, it doesnt mean the car is anymore unreliable than another once the recall is completed.

prendy wrote:

im sorry bot lol at this post...anyone who has ANY fiat in among the best cars loses all respect. and the corolla is always voted one of the top cars in this country.never had a merc so cant comment.

As far as the stilo is concerned it wouldnt be my pick due to the fact that it suffers from some suspention problems and a few electrics problems too but to say that ANY fiat shouldnt be in the top of the list just makes someone look like a noob that probably heard fiats are sh*t from jimmy the bar man who heard from tom the plumer who comes in for a scoop after work.,

Masada

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Erm Biro that is incorrect ("a 1.4 3 door civic is a better car in every way than a 1.4 golf") - that's just your opinion it certainly is not fact

Some may prefer the golf as they believe it looks better, nicer interior etc - one car is not "better" than the other

You can prefer one to the other that is your right of course, just like it is someone else's right to prefer the golf without being called "blinded"....

well, it depends on how you define "better", without doubt the civic's 1.4 engine is much better than the golfs engine in terms of build quality and reliability. the interior of the civic is better too, the dash is nicely designed with plenty of storage and the gear shift is in a higher position on the dash rather than in the floor like the golf. that alone ment they didnt have to have a tunnel under the car for the linkage and having it flat means its a lot stronger.., the one thing i liked from the golf is the backlit dial cluster though., I have 2 friends that have had the golf and another had the seat leon (same thing really) and I have the 2004 civic since new and it handles very well, better than the golf in my opinion., and then theres "uniqueness," the chances of seeing someone in the exact same car as you if you have an EP civic are pretty low, strangly in 4 years i havent seen one the same as mine. the golf however, every tom dick and harry has them.,:(

Biro

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

There's a huge difference between a car being the best hatchback and being the best car.

I know what you meant, that's why I used the civic as a comparison.

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Why a GTi Vs a Type-R?
Why not a R32 Vs a Typr-R?

You don't know enough about cars for this debate if you need to ask this question.

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

You can pick up a decent s/hand R32 for €15,000+VRT in the UK.
Money well spent in my book.

There are cars that I'd pick for that price that would have it whipped for handling and performance, however the R32 isn't a bad car. A nice unique alternative, nice sound of the V6.

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

I've never driven a Type-R so I can't say much about them.
I did drive a V-Tec Civic though, one of those special edition Jordan ones.
I found it to be overrated and alot slower than I'd expected.
Especially when you cosider how hard it is to get insured on one.
The FTO that I owned at the time was way quicker.

Comparing an FTO V6 Mivec to a Jordan Civic is silly, they're in different classes.

Armin_Tamzarian

Biro wrote: »

I know what you meant, that's why I used the civic as a comparison.

???

Biro wrote: »

You don't know enough about cars for this debate if you need to ask this question.

Obviously not, please enlighten me.
I mean they're both hatchbacks aren't they?
That is what we were comparing.

Biro wrote: »

There are cars that I'd pick for that price that would have it whipped for handling and performance, however the R32 isn't a bad car. A nice unique alternative, nice sound of the V6.

I'd probably go for something else myself.
But, for that price I can't think of any cars of the same year that would beat it.

Biro wrote: »

Comparing an FTO V6 Mivec to a Jordan Civic is silly, they're in different classes.

Well that's all I had to go on at the time.
Ones MIVEC, ones VTec.
Neither has turbo.
200Bhp against 160Bhp is a bit unfair I suppose
but my car was 10 years older so the Bhp would have been quite abit lower.
Is it that daft a comparison.
I heard peole going on about how great VTec Civics were for years.
I was a bit dissappointend when I finally had a go in one.

unkel

A lot of sh!te in this thread, but some sound comments and a gem that should have stayed secret:

maidhc wrote: »

Having said that you can pick up VERY clean ones now for ~€1000-2000 that need a HG. They are actually much cheaper in Ireland than in the UK. All you need to do is put in the modified gaskets, and make a few other reasonably cheap modifications and you have open top motoring for under €3k.