Is their a battle on for 4th place? (Last Year)

Mr Alan

****ing right it doesnt stretch that far, i have a trip to Wembely and trip to Moscow to be planning and saving for!:)

JimiTime

Savman wrote: »

Er, how much of City have you watched this season? They are still up there because they can grind out results, not because of their attacking flair which they only seem to turn on sparingly. But I still think they've enough strength to push the pool whereas Everton and the Villa would be reliant on 2 or 3 really big players not getting injured.

Not IMO. I've seen quite alot of city this year, and think that they've been one of the most entertaining sides I've seen in a while. Some beautiful first touch football, great defending, a lesson in how to be a winger from Petrov and the wonderful feet of Elano. Grinding out results may well be part of the package, but it certainly not something I'd say is their main charachteristic.

Xavi6

Yes

JimiTime wrote: »

Not IMO. I've seen quite alot of city this year, and think that they've been one of the most entertaining sides I've seen in a while. Some beautiful first touch football, great defending, a lesson in how to be a winger from Petrov and the wonderful feet of Elano. Grinding out results may well be part of the package, but it certainly not something I'd say is their main charachteristic.

Sorry mate you couldn't have watched every City game. what you've described is the first two and half months of the season. We haven't been nearly as fluent lately.

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

Xavi, I think you're looking for too much. United played at the start of the season very poorly, but won 3 games 1-0 on the bounce. It was poor to watch, no fluidity, but if you can't grind out results, you'll never get anywhere in the league. City have been alternating between fluid beauty and some grinding, and that's what you need. One is not enough, just look at Arsenal in the last two years. Now that they've added some grinding, they are a force to be feared.

Xavi6

Yes

PHB wrote: »

Xavi, I think you're looking for too much. United played at the start of the season very poorly, but won 3 games 1-0 on the bounce. It was poor to watch, no fluidity, but if you can't grind out results, you'll never get anywhere in the league. City have been alternating between fluid beauty and some grinding, and that's what you need. One is not enough, just look at Arsenal in the last two years. Now that they've added some grinding, they are a force to be feared.

Oh don't get me wrong. It's nice to have us being praised for once after the shambles of last season. I just don't want to get over carried away. I've watched pretty much every game and while we have played some fantastic football there have been times where we have been woeful and our big players haven't showed up i.e. against Everton last weekend where our only two shots on target came in injury time.

We desperately need a striker to take some of the pressure off the boys in midfield for goals. Until that happens we will be doing more grinding than anything else.

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

Indeed, there is no doubt that City's squad still needs much much work, but you've gotten to a pretty impressive position without that, and there has been some lovely football along the way. City have played nicer football than Liverpool this year, and are on the same points.

I'm very torn about City and Liverpool. I can't decide who I want to get 4th if there was a choice, dislike both equally. I think I'd prefer for City to get it, because I'd like in general somebody from outside the top 4 to get in, in order to shake things up a little. Also I am quite fond of Sven, think hes a great manager.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote: »

Indeed, there is no doubt that City's squad still needs much much work, but you've gotten to a pretty impressive position without that, and there has been some lovely football along the way. City have played nicer football than Liverpool this year, and are on the same points.

I'm very torn about City and Liverpool. I can't decide who I want to get 4th if there was a choice, dislike both equally. I think I'd prefer for City to get it, because I'd like in general somebody from outside the top 4 to get in, in order to shake things up a little. Also I am quite fond of Sven, think hes a great manager.

i'd prefer liverpool to get it.

1. Rafa might get to keep his job.
2. I don't like the City owner at all, rather apathetic towards towards the American duo.

JimiTime

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sorry mate you couldn't have watched every City game. what you've described is the first two and half months of the season. We haven't been nearly as fluent lately.

Firstly I never said I've seen 'every' city game, I said I seen them quite a bit. What I've described is an opinion of mine based on what I've seen. You are entitled to disagree, but I don't hold your opinion. Yes, even in the games when they've really played well, they've drifted in and out. Yes there is obviously still alot of work needed, especially in the forward department, but my opinion stays the same, 'I' have been entertained by them, and hope that they get something for playing the type of football us neutrals like to watch. I loved watching them against Blackburn, some lovely first touch football, and Martin Petrov was awesome. However, their second half performance seriously dipped. So you are entitled to hold to your opinion that their good football was confined to the first 2 months of the season, I however don't hold such an opinion. Certainly they were allowed to play alot more at the start of the season, most didn't know about Petrov or Elano then. Now they are marked men, so its going to have an effect. Under the circumstances, I've still managed to enjoy watching them. I didn't see the Everton Game, but by the highlights they seemed pretty poor, however, to me, a few bad games does not take away from the type of football they stand for. Arsenal, Man U and Man City, for me have been the entertainment value this term.

Killme00

No

Tauren wrote: »

i'd prefer liverpool to get it.

+1 which i think they will quite easily.

Chelsea will be closer to Utd and Arsenal than i first thought. Grant is doing a fine job getting reults despite a huge amount of injuries. I think Utd will still win the premiership.

Savman

Yes (Chasing pack fans)

JimiTime wrote: »

a few bad games does not take away from the type of football they stand for.

Well we must be watching 2 different sides, because Elano and Petrov both go missing away from home and IMHO City's season can be largely attributed to their defence, particularly Richards and Dunne.
City play well at home with 45k crowds behind them, but their away form is patchy. Remember this is a team that got absolutely trashed 6-0 at Stamford Bridge, not exactly befitting a team hoping to be Champions League quality. They have some distance to go and they have been the revelation of the season, but far from the Brazilian-esque team you make out.

Helix

No (Chasing pack fans)

****

i made a balls of the vote due to the question in the poll being different to the question in the thread title

doh

JimiTime

Savman wrote: »

Well we must be watching 2 different sides, because Elano and Petrov both go missing away from home and IMHO City's season can be largely attributed to their defence, particularly Richards and Dunne.
City play well at home with 45k crowds behind them, but their away form is patchy. Remember this is a team that got absolutely trashed 6-0 at Stamford Bridge, not exactly befitting a team hoping to be Champions League quality. They have some distance to go and they have been the revelation of the season, but far from the Brazilian-esque team you make out.

As I said, you are entitled to that opinion. Love that strawman though. 'Far from the brazillianesque team you make out'. A flawed team, playing football the way I like to see it be played would be closer to my opinion. Huge potential, but still a long way to go before they are Arsenal or Man U but alot more entertaining than Chelsea and Liverpool or any of the chasing pack. Work away though, you keep watching the Man C team you've been watching, and I'll keep enjoying watching the Man C team I've been watching.

eirebhoy

No

Xavi6 wrote: »

When asked why City played so much more creativley and exciting than England, Sven replied, "With England I didn't have Elano". Simple as that really.

I agree. imo the only reason England aren't at the Euros is because they don't have an Elano or an Arteta or Nakamura or Riquelme or Juninho. Those 5 players are much more intelligent than any English midfielder bar Scholes imho and would completely change their team.

yahoo_moe

PHB wrote: »

Is that still true? It was true earlier on in the season, like after 6-7 games, but is it still true now?
*edit just checked* Last year you have 35 after 21 games, the season before you had 44 the season before, then 34 the season before.

As a complete aside, where did you check that?

A couple of times I've gone looking for archived mid-season tables out of curiousity but I can never find anything...

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

I looked at the ESPN gamelog, then did some quick maths

Xavi6

Yes

JimiTime wrote: »

As I said, you are entitled to that opinion. Love that strawman though. 'Far from the brazillianesque team you make out'. A flawed team, playing football the way I like to see it be played would be closer to my opinion. Huge potential, but still a long way to go before they are Arsenal or Man U but alot more entertaining than Chelsea and Liverpool or any of the chasing pack. Work away though, you keep watching the Man C team you've been watching, and I'll keep enjoying watching the Man C team I've been watching.

Don't watch us away to Derby next weekend then

JimiTime

Xavi6 wrote: »

Don't watch us away to Derby next weekend then

TBH, even the couple of games i which I've seen them being poor, I've still seen some nice football from them. It may just be in flashes, but I still commend them for it. As i said, i don't look at them with the same expectation as Arsenal and Man U, so there are more allowances made for them in my mind. Thus, its great to see a team attempting to play good football get their just rewards. This is why I would like to see them pip a negative liverpool to 4th. Torres excites me, but Liverpool as a unit are drab for me. Man C are no Brazil, but I've enjoyed them.

jesus_thats_gre

No (Liverpool fans)

There is no doubting that there is a bit of a scrap for 4th place going on at the moment but I feel Liverpool will finish in the top 4 come the end of the season.

I feel Everton are the only team that can genuinely challenge for that 4th spot. Villa will likely finish 6th while City will drop off quite a bit I feel.

machiavellianme

No

Isnt there a battle on for every position until the last game is over?
This type of poll is useless as its not going to effect anything and will only lead to bragging and trolling.

jesus_thats_gre

No (Liverpool fans)

^^^ Fair point..

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

As opposed to all our other discussions, which have profound effects on what happens in the title race :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

everyones ****ed now.... Keegans back.

Newcastle definately gonna take 4th spot (from Chelsea)

x in the city

Everton could take it, Im a hardcore blue and wouldnt be surprised, we done it before, since we lost the derby last year we only lost two games to the top two sides in the country.

we are scoring goals and with manny back in the fold, theres no telling what we cant do.

Liverpool by and large are having a dreadful season, great expectations down the drain. Everton had no such aspirations, I think Liverpool minus S G are an ordinary team, take away torres (beneathus only decent signing) and you have a team who would not finish 6th..

Having said that Aston Villa are a tremendous club with a rich history and its nice to see them up in the top, they are having a great season.

Mr Alan

x in the city wrote: »

take away torres (beneathus only decent signing) and you have a team who would not finish 6th..

Its a good thing we've had Torres all these years so?!

and rafas only decent signing? Alonso? Reina? Agger? Carragher as a centre half? Babel? Arbeloa? Mascherano? Lucas?

that post of yours is full of ****e. bitter.

eirebhoy

No

Alonso must be one of the most underrated players in the premiership. Since he's a playmaker I like to look at the passing stats and he averages 70 passes a game. By far and away more than any player in the league. Mascherano averages 55 passes a game, Gerrard averages 53 (both well above the average). So it's clear how much Alonso dictates the play and dominates a game. His pass success rate is 80% which again is fantastic for a player who doesn't keep things simple all the time like a Makelele or even Mascherano.

btw, you asked for that site I think.

http://www.squadgod.com

I wish I could get stats like that for Celtic players.

kryogen

No

imo the only team i see as being anyway capable of stepping up and taking 4th place of pool is everton and i dont really see it happening to be honest, the simple fact is that history has shown that the other teams outside the usual 4 dont put runs together and dont have the consistency to really challenge the top 4.....i think spurs could do it next season maybe, but even thats a big maybe, i expect villa to fall away, i expect city to finish in the6-8 position and i really cant see any of them finishing above liverpool.....unfortunatly

djpbarry

It's a sad indictment of the predictable nature and lack of competition in the English premiership when a thread pops up with that title.

Villain

No (Chasing pack fans)

Xavi6 wrote: »

Don't watch us away to Derby next weekend then

I hope your not watching them tonight because West Ham are playing them off the park!

Mr Alan

City are downright awful tonight from wat i've seen.

(and wats with the stadium being half empty?!)

agree Eirebhoy about Alonso. he is criminally under-rated, and the reason is simply that the standards he set in his first season were so so so high. he has failed to hit them consistantly since. wat people fail to notice that even without hitting those high standards he is one of the top CMs in the league without a shadow of a doubt.

If he ever does hit those heights again consistantly, he has the potential to be the best central midfield player in the world.

Villain

No (Chasing pack fans)

Its a big stadium to fill and while they do well on the weekends mid week games are usually low, I went to see them play Boro on a Monday night game two years ago and it was the same not even half full, although it was one of the worst games I ever saw.

Xavi6

Yes

Villain wrote: »

I hope your not watching them tonight because West Ham are playing them off the park!

Ah yes that'll be that 'grinding' we were talking about.

flahavaj

No

Liverpool will come 4th, but the reality is that 4th is no proper ambition for a club with Liverpool's tradition to be aiming for. Shankley would turn in his grave if he knew that this is how far they've fallen.:eek:

JimiTime

Very poor performance by city tonight alright:o Petrov still showed flashes though. Another positive is that the keeper doesn't just hoof it. they really like to play it out from the back. Didn't do it very well tonight though.

Mr Alan

flahavaj wrote: »

is no proper ambition for a club with Liverpool's tradition to be aiming for.

Pretty sure thats not wat liverpool are aiming for.

Also pretty sure that there is quite a number of months left to go before this season draws to a close.

Xavi6

Yes

Mr Alan wrote: »

Pretty sure thats not wat liverpool are aiming for.

Also pretty sure that there is quite a number of months left to go before this season draws to a close.

So you're aiming for third then?

Mr Alan

I dont play for Liverpool, wat i want and do has no bearing on the lads (unfortunately)

I think Utd/Chelsea and Arsenal will all lose a few games, drop a few points by the end of the season, if liverpool can find a run of form, no reason that gap cant be considerably cut.

Although, Liverpool might not find any form so the others droppin points might be of no meaning to us.

BUT for a thread like this to question whether we'll be able to get 4th when its Jan, and we are potentially 9 points behind the leaders and we've been ****e for the last month or two, is pretty funny.

Leagues have been won with more of a margin than that at this time of the year in the past. Not saying i think we'll win the league, but please dont write our season off as a failure just yet.

Xavi6

Yes

Mr Alan wrote: »

BUT for a thread like this to question whether we'll be able to get 4th when its Jan, and we are potentially 9 points behind the leaders and we've been ****e for the last month or two, is pretty funny.

Do you reckon the form will pick up though? I'm not convinced it will enough to get near challenging. I think they'll be more looking over their shoulder than looking up.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Leagues have been won with more of a margin than that at this time of the year in the past. Not saying i think we'll win the league, but please dont write our season off as a failure just yet.

And that brings us full circle to the topic of the day in Mr. Keegan. "And they've gotta go to Middlesbrough..."

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

Catch one team with a nine point lead at Christmas? Doable. Catch two teams? Not a hope.

As for the whole Alonso debate, there's no doubt he's a top quality player, but he has been nothing more than average since his first season, when he was absolutely top class. I don't think the Liverpool system suits him at all.

Since he's a playmaker I like to look at the passing stats and he averages 70 passes a game. By far and away more than any player in the league. Mascherano averages 55 passes a game, Gerrard averages 53

Where did you get that data? I've never found data on passing before.

Vokes

eirebhoy wrote: »

btw, you asked for that site I think.

http://www.squadgod.com

I wish I could get stats like that for Celtic players.

Great site. I presume its accurate.....where do they source their stats from?

EDIT: They get them from the OPTA crowd. Nice one.

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

I'm confused then eirebhoy, just looking at the stats

Alonso - 61 per game at 78%
Fabregas - 67 per game at 80%
Scholes - 80 per game at 89%

Indeed even Carrick has 61 per game with 83% accuracy.

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think Utd/Chelsea and Arsenal will all lose a few games, drop a few points by the end of the season, if liverpool can find a run of form, no reason that gap cant be considerably cut.

Liverpools followers favourite word

Mr Alan

Actually i believe their favourite word is ......BOSS.

In fairness PHB, the type of pass Alonso plays a lot! and a accuracy rate that high is pretty astounding in my book. Plays passes the others you mention (great players with the exception of Carrick obviously) could only dream off.

Quarter-back and all that.

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually i believe their favourite word is ......BOSS.

In fairness PHB, the type of pass Alonso plays a lot! and a accuracy rate that high is pretty astounding in my book. Plays passes the others you mention (great players with the exception of Carrick obviously) could only dream off.

Quarter-back and all that.

maybe a few years ago - certainly hasn't done it for a while

Mr Alan

wat are you talking about he does it all the time still.

you are aware he has been injured most of the season? anytime he's been on the field he has been pretty excellent this year, spraying balls left right and centre like only he can. Christ he has even had a couple of shots from his own half in his limited appearances this season

Alonso, even not at the heights he can be at, is better than 99% of other midfielders playing in England at the moment.

kida

blinkers

Mr Alan

biased.

wats your point?

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

biased.

wats your point?

every non liverpool fan and even a lot of pool fans I know would acknowledge for this season (was a good bit into the season when he got injured?) and last that he has been poor. Wouldn't exect you to though.

PHB

No (Chasing pack fans)

I don't think Mr Alan wouldn't argue he has been poor in relation to his own standards and the standards of the top 4, but I think he'd still argue, and I think most would argree, that outside of the top 4, even at a low level, there are few midfielders who even compare to him.

quarryman

Mr Alan wrote: »

Alonso, even not at the heights he can be at, is better than 99% of other midfielders playing in England at the moment.

yes you are blinkered.

there are 20 teams in the league. lets say there are 6 regular midfielders per team, that makes 120. so you are basically saying there is only 1 to 2 better than him?

let's automatically put steven "the sun shines out of his arse" gerrard in there, that leaves ONE. from ALL the teams in the premiership.

I could come up with at least 10 that i rate better than him in the top half alone.

blinkered indeed.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually i believe their favourite word is ......BOSS.

In fairness PHB, the type of pass Alonso plays a lot! and a accuracy rate that high is pretty astounding in my book. Plays passes the others you mention (great players with the exception of Carrick obviously) could only dream off.

Quarter-back and all that.

Rubbish!!

Been a while since i replied to one of your posts with that start.

Alsonso can play passes Scholes and Fabregas can only dream of? Absolute rubbish.