Should Ahern Resign?

pfkf1

Just wondering whether people think Ahern should resign [edit - psi]
Do you believe he should resign due to the fact that he has committed all of these offences? or do you think that we as a population should stand by and watch low standards in high office continue?

Do you think that the Greens and PDs should pull out of government if Ahern refuses to resign due to him demeaning politics?

Liam Byrne

Yes,
Yes,
& Yes

Fact is, though, it ain't gonna happen....even his other mate who's due in front of the tribunal is "pulling a Charlie" and is "too sick" to appear......it'd be laughable if it weren't for the fact that OUR taxes are paying for this....both the wages of these chancers and the costs of the tribunals that are investigating them!

duggie-89

YES
YES
YES

but lets face it the publi have accepted FF corruption for so long why would they change their minds now. they had a chance to get him out but were 2 scared about losing their new fancy cars because ahren but the feear of god into people about "if we lose the elction the economy will collapse"


get him out the sooner the better.

and i cant see the Greens go especially if they sold their soul to get power in the first place.

Jack Sheehan

Yes. But will he? Not a hope in hell.

damo

Yes. ****ing crook. No doubt what we're seeing is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his corruption over the years.

AckwelFoley

[edit - psi]?

Influenced by the meadia much? :rolleyes:

Tommy T

Wind your necks back in lads. Bertie's been the most successful Taoiseach in the history of the State. Since becomming leader he's been there when Ireland for once and for all buried the gun for good, the Celtic Tiger has roared louder than any other EU economy and my own personal circumstances have improvced beyond belief thanks to his Governments forsight and liberal(economically) policies.

If he's received a few bob along the way from mates then fair dues. It's not like he was counterfeitting notes in Gardiner Street...;)

AckwelFoley

Tommy, its unpopular to say such a thing.

Shame on you.

Sam Kade

Tommy T wrote: »

Wind your necks back in lads. Bertie's been the most successful Taoiseach in the history of the State. Since becomming leader he's been there when Ireland for once and for all buried the gun for good, the Celtic Tiger has roared louder than any other EU economy and my own personal circumstances have improvced beyond belief thanks to his Governments forsight and liberal(economically) policies.

If he's received a few bob along the way from mates then fair dues. It's not like he was counterfeitting notes in Gardiner Street...;)

And Bertie made all these good things happen. I wouldn't agree with you it was just that he was in the right place at the right time.

Tommy T

snyper wrote: »

Tommy, its unpopular to say such a thing.

Shame on you.

I know. I feel so tainted by Bertie's gross corruption. How will I ever sleep tonight..:(

Lucky I have a kingsize bed that I could afford thanks to the job I have that was generated by the Celtic Tiger which was cared for and nourished, partly, by Bertie Ahern lead Governments over the last decade...;)

AckwelFoley

Sam Kade wrote: »

And Bertie made all these good things happen. I wouldn't agree with you it was just that he was in the right place at the right time.

Yes of course. If we had a left wing rather than our "right of centre" government in the years preceeeding the boom, all the infrastructure, skills and oppertunities to create this boom would have been even greater.

No. Not even close.

The people responsible for creating the jobs would have stayed in or went to england where their skills and effort would be rewarded and hence benefit that economy

"Right place right time" :rolleyes: Where do you think success comes from? Dont say "people" like Gerry Adams.. China have got loads of people, but cant feed half them.

Its careful managment of an economy that gives rise to oppertunities and wealth that makes a country great.

eddiehobbs

Tommy T wrote: »

Wind your necks back in lads. Bertie's been the most successful Taoiseach in the history of the State. Since becomming leader he's been there when Ireland for once and for all buried the gun for good, the Celtic Tiger has roared louder than any other EU economy and my own personal circumstances have improvced beyond belief thanks to his Governments forsight and liberal(economically) policies.

If he's received a few bob along the way from mates then fair dues. It's not like he was counterfeitting notes in Gardiner Street...;)

regardless of whether he has been successfull or not, he's corrupt and therefore unsuitable to be taoiseach

AckwelFoley

regardless of whether he has been successfull or not, he's corrupt and therefore unsuitable to be taoiseach

Hes not been PROVEN corrupt ...yet


Secondly, all of these elected politicans have had their hands in the pie at some stage.

guinnessdrinker

snyper wrote: »

Hes not been PROVEN corrupt ...yet


Secondly, all of these elected politicans have had their hands in the pie at some stage.

Just because it looks like Ahern is corrupt doesn't mean "all these elected politicans" are corrupt. Have you proof that they are all corrupt?

AckwelFoley

Its the same common assumption that ppl make that Ahern is corrupt.

I dont think he has done anything at the time that anyother politician wouldnt.

LostinBlanch

Guinessdrinker,

don't worry about it, it's typical FF tactics make out that everyone else is as corrupt as they have been proved to be in the past.

It looks to me like the Mount St tag team is working late tonight.

AckwelFoley

You fail at sarcasm.

Tommy T

eddiehobbs wrote: »

regardless of whether he has been successfull or not, he's corrupt and therefore unsuitable to be taoiseach

Thats like saying Jesus was wrong to question his father on the cross while forgetting all the good he did.

Yes I am putting Bertie in a league with Jesus Christ...;)

As Clark Gable said to Vivien Leigh Frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

It's thanks to Bertie ahern lead Governments I have a comfortable life in the country of my birth. For that I'll be forever grateful.

By the way your view or mine of his suitability is irrelevent as the reality of the situation tells us that the People voted him into Office for a third straight term.

You gotta love democracy...

eddiehobbs

snyper wrote: »

Its the same common assumption that ppl make that Ahern is corrupt.

I dont think he has done anything at the time that anyother politician wouldnt.

And that makes it right??

Where are all these other corrupt politicians?

Do you steal from your employer??

miju

Tommy T wrote: »

Wind your necks back in lads. Bertie's been the most successful Taoiseach in the history of the State. Since becomming leader he's been there when Ireland for once and for all buried the gun for good, the Celtic Tiger has roared louder than any other EU economy and my own personal circumstances have improvced beyond belief thanks to his Governments forsight and liberal(economically) policies.

thanks to his "foresight" he built a roaring economy that binged on cheap credit and profiterring from selling houses to each other. of course that will and is all changing right now

Tommy T wrote: »

If he's received a few bob along the way from mates then fair dues. It's not like he was counterfeitting notes in Gardiner Street...;)

if he's recieved a few bob that quite simply makes hom corrupt and not fit to be in office. i'm actually glad FF won the last general election as it will show up their complete economic mismanagement of this country. if FG / Lab had of got in they would have shouldered the blame and we'd be faced with another million years of FF government

AckwelFoley

I laugh whole heartidly at all this talk of a mis managed economy.

We have a great economy.
Where have you been for the last 30 years? Do you remember the 70's and 80's?

Tommy T

miju wrote: »

Tommy T wrote: »

Wind your necks back in lads. Bertie's been the most successful Taoiseach in the history of the State. Since becomming leader he's been there when Ireland for once and for all buried the gun for good, the Celtic Tiger has roared louder than any other EU economy and my own personal circumstances have improvced beyond belief thanks to his Governments forsight and liberal(economically) policies.

thanks to his "foresight" he built a roaring economy that binged on cheap credit and profiterring from selling houses to each other. of course that will and is all changing right now

It's called the Free Market... Long may it live...

Armin_Tamzarian

How come it seems to be acceptable for Bertie Ahern to have received monies from "close personal friends" whilst others have been strung up for the same thing?
Calling the payments a "dig out" is no excuse.
Does the fact that Bertie needed the money as a result of his divorce make it all the more palatable?
There's were plenty of men going through separatations at the same time as him and they were earning much less money and they ended up losing their house and pretty much everything else.
But they didn't have access to a dig out fund, they just had to struggle on and keep going as people do.

No matter what way you look at it he only got those monies because of his position.

I think the final straw for me was when the high ranking NCB[?] official contradicted most of what Ahern had said.
This wasn't the ramblings of a drunken Eamon Dunphy.
What would be the motivation for this bank official to lie?

Tommy T

There's no law against receiving money from friends, acquaintances or even sworn enemies.

Some media types who have nowt better to do with their time and wallow in their misery of living in a Fianna Fail boom economy can wish it to be otherwise all they like but Comrades O'Toole and Connolly will just have to put up with it.

Thankfully the days of Show trials went out with uncle Joe Stalin...

Armin_Tamzarian

There's no law against receiving money but what if someone gives you a donation for you're party and you pocket it.
Isn't this what the statements of the NCB[?] official are implying?
Surely that's theft and fraud?

I think the problem is that it's an abuse of power.
Also it will biase the receiver in the favour of the giver.
If someone gives you €40,000 then surely you'll be alot more likely to help
them out in the future, whatever that help might be.

What is the actual law in relation ot receiving large cash gifts from people?
Do you have to pay tax on this?

For a long time Ahern appeared to be one of the few FF politicians who's name hadn't been sullied by cash donations / bribes received in the past.
Now that's all changed.

Tommy T

This might sound glib but Bertie's relationship with Revenue doen't cause me a second thought. whether he's fully compliant or not. I judge him on his achievement since coming into Office and he's played a blinder.

I personally owe him a huge debt of gratitude allowing the economic circumstances prosper whereby enabled me to stay in Ireland and build a relatively comfprtable lifestyle.

A privilege not afforded to the generation that went before me...

Armin_Tamzarian

Tommy T wrote: »

This might sound glib but Bertie's relationship with Revenue doen't cause me a second thought. whether he's fully compliant or not. I judge him on his achievement since coming into Office and he's played a blinder.

I personally owe him a huge debt of gratitude allowing the economic circumstances prosper whereby enabled me to stay in Ireland and build a relatively comfprtable lifestyle.

A privilege not afforded to the generation that went before me...

This is abit OT but...
In relation to your comment.
I don't know much about the machinations of politics, etc.
However there is something that I've often wondered.
In your post you credit Bertir Ahern and FF with bringing about the Celtic Tiger and providing so much prosperity.
What I wonder is how much credit is actually due to the politicians?
Is the success not really down to the people behind the scenes, Civil Servants, Advisiors, Economists, etc.
As I said, I don't know much about politics but I have an image in my head of Civil Servants, etc doing all the work and then making their cases to relevant Ministers for approval, funding, etc.

miju

Tommy T wrote: »

It's called the Free Market... Long may it live...

ah I see so in other words the free market is responsible for the roaring economy not Bertie? thanks for agreeing :D:D

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

As I said, I don't know much about politics but I have an image in my head of Civil Servants, etc doing all the work and then making their cases to relevant Ministers for approval, funding, etc.

agreed, there is a permanent and a temporary government. the civil service are the permanent government with the politicians been considered temoprary

damo

Right so without old bertie we'd still be living in cowsheds and eating potatoes right? :eek:

Tommy T wrote: »

There's no law against receiving money from friends, acquaintances or even sworn enemies.

Is that you bertie??

You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe that poor old bertie was given gifts from his property developing pals out of the kindness of their hearts.

Maybe they gave it to him for single handedly making all us broke paddies paper millionaires?

Tommy T

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

This is abit OT but...
In relation to your comment.
I don't know much about the machinations of politics, etc.
However there is something that I've often wondered.
In your post you credit Bertir Ahern and FF with bringing about the Celtic Tiger and providing so much prosperity.
What I wonder is how much credit is actually due to the politicians?
Is the success not really down to the people behind the scenes, Civil Servants, Advisiors, Economists, etc.
As I said, I don't know much about politics but I have an image in my head of Civil Servants, etc doing all the work and then making their cases to relevant Ministers for approval, funding, etc.

You are spot on in your observations about Civil Servants. They do a sterling job behind the scenes. However its the politicians whom we elect and its their heads on the chopping block if things go up the spout.

There's no doubt the Budgets of Charlie McCreevy enhanced and gave sustinance to the already existing Celtic Cub while outside factors also played their part.

Fact is Bertie was at the healm and therefore he gets the Kudos deservedly...

Tommy T

damo wrote: »

Right so without old bertie we'd still be living in cowsheds and eating potatoes right? :eek:

Wrong. We'd be living in london, New York and Sydney building a life for ourselves that would be impossible to achieve in the land of our birth. You're clearly too young to remember the devestating after Christmas scenes in Dublin Airport when fathers and children, husbands and wives had to be seperated due to our basketcase economy.

Thankfully those days are history...