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Should Ahern Resign?

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    #92
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    blackbox wrote: »
    If FF has any cop they'll give him the heave-ho as soon as posssible, as he has become a liability for any future election. They would be much better off if he was out to pasture and long forgotten by the time it comes around.

    All the same witch hunt garble was hanging over him at the height of the last election, and he was still comfortably elected.

    Just to clarify, i never once stated he was innocent of any wrong doing, and i must point out he has not been proven of any wrong doing either.

    Do i care if he got a few thousand from his mate. No.

    Would i vote for another centre right party if possible , yes.

    Which other party? Well the PD's are too right of centre for me, and FG have no decent person to lead them.

    That leaves us wuth Labour, left of centre . . not a bad party but too many solutions without credible ways of ataining these objectives.

    Sinn Feinn... Bwahahaahahahahaha! No.
    The whole Albainian communist model has been tried. and failed.


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    #93
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    Any chance of a poll?

    Should resign or should not resign.


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    #94
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    Any chance of a poll?

    Should resign or should not resign.

    Fair point, can the OP or the mods add one?


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    #95
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    Any chance of a poll?

    Should resign or should not resign.


    Why not. I'd safely predict 80-20 split saying he should resign...


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    #96
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    IT is the very least he should do.

    In another country he would have already done so or took matters into his own hands in another way.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6697329.stm
    Japanese minister ‘kills himself’
    Toshikatsu Matsuoka
    Toshikatsu Matsuoka was embroiled in a financial scandal
    Japan’s Agriculture Minister Toshikatsu Matsuoka has died in hospital after reportedly committing suicide.

    The 62-year-old was found hanged in his Tokyo apartment hours before he was to face questions in parliament over his links to a political funding scandal.

    Efforts to resuscitate him at hospital failed. Officials said police were still investigating the cause of death.

    Opposition MPs had been calling for his resignation over unexplained expenses claimed for a rent-free office.

    Scandals and gaffes

    “We’ve confirmed that Agriculture Minister Toshikatsu Matsuoka is dead. We are greatly saddened,” said government spokesman Yasuhisa Shiozaki.

    Mr Matsuoka had allegedly claimed more than 28m yen ($236,600; £118,300) in utility fees at his parliamentary office, where utility costs are free. He denied any wrong-doing.

    He had previously refused to explain the expenses to a parliamentary committee but the Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, defended him, saying he had fulfilled his legal responsibilities.

    Mr Abe’s eight-month premiership has been rocked by a series of scandals and gaffes.

    Support for Japan’s government has fallen to its lowest level since he took office, a new poll suggests.


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    #97
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Why not. I'd safely predict 80-20 split saying he should resign...

    Ah the old 80/20 rule. 80 percent saying he shouldn't?


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    #98
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Ah the old 80/20 rule. 80 percent saying he shouldn't?

    The Parento Rule... 80% saying he should resign...


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    #99
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    snyper wrote: »
    Do i care if he got a few thousand from his mate.

    No.

    can I alter this question for you (to reflect reality) and see if you would answer it differently?

    Do you care if a serving Minister for Finance gets large cash sums from unexplained sources and then lies about it to the media, his party, his family and the Dail? Would you care if he had provided favours for these bungs?


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    #100
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6697329.stm

    What an idiot...


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    #101
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    Would you care if he had provided favours for these bungs?

    And once again we come to the crux of the matter. Your hypothetical question, while interesting, but is just that, hypothetical...


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    #102
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    OK. There sem to be a few borderline posts in this thread.

    In retrospect and after consulatation with other mods. Amnesty is retracted.

    I can do that, because I'm a tyrant.

    1 Week Ban:

    Pfkf1
    eddiehobbs
    Liam Byrne
    drinkmilkids

    Warning:

    Thaedydal - it looks trolly and the implication does not wash well with me - I'll reserve judgement to now.


    Anyone else want to make an accusation that can't be backed up or caught stating opinion as fact will face the same fate.


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    #103
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Tommy T wrote: »
    What an idiot...

    Yeah, he should have just blamed the media and legal profession for carrying out a campaign of hate against him.

    And to answer the question: No, Ahern should not resign, he should be ****ed out by the scruff of his neck.


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    #104
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Yeah, he should have just blamed the media and legal profession for carrying out a campaign of hate against him.

    And to answer the question: No, Ahern should not resign, he should be ****ed out by the scruff of his neck.

    Thankfully over here we don't take concerted media attacks to the point of committing suicide. What a waste of a life...


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    #105
    stevoman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭stevoman


    1 month Ban - Psi.


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    #106
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Tommy T wrote: »
    The Parento Rule... 80% saying he should resign...

    How does that help your case?


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    #107
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Thankfully over here we don't take concerted media attacks to the point of committing suicide. What a waste of a life...

    Any chance of Bertie doing the decent thing? Will Cowen hand him a revolver with one bullet and then walk out of the room? Oh happy day!


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    #108
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    How does that help your case?

    A Poll here neither helps nor hinders my case...


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    #109
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    can I alter this question for you (to reflect reality) and see if you would answer it differently?

    Do you care if a serving Minister for Finance gets large cash sums from unexplained sources and then lies about it to the media, his party, his family and the Dail? Would you care if he had provided favours for these bungs?

    Do i want to know the financial details of every serving minister? No.
    Do i care if he lies to the media, no
    Do icare if he lies to his party, no
    Do i care if he lies to his family, ni, i lie to my family when i need to.

    Would i care if he he provided favours for cash? Certainly, absolutely.

    But there is no evidence that he has done so, you can call it "reality" i call it slander


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    #110
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Any chance of Bertie doing the decent thing?

    He's doing a damn fine job in my view as it is...


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    #111
    stooge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭stooge


    stooge wrote: »
    I dont think you can attribute the quality of life in Ireland now (as apposes to the 80's) to Bertie Ahern. He merely jumped on board the moving train that was the Celtic Tiger and has been collecting 'fares' all the way along. The resurgence after 2001 was mainly due to property and is such a false boom in the economy as we are seeing the correction now.

    If, instead, for this period, we had a strong leader willing to LEAD the country for the greater good and long term goals rather than personal benefit I have no doubt we would be in a much better position than we are today i.e. a proper transport network, better healthcare., broadband network....etc etc. With all this we would be better placed to face the problems that lie ahead.

    just adding to my above post. The work done by previous leaders didnt just lay the foundations for Bertie, they practically built the house for him.

    In years to come I hope everyone is well enough educated to know that the great leaders of Ireland were not neccessarily the ones in power when life was great and we all had two houses, huge cars, were corrupt and lied to our families :rolleyes:


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    #112
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    stooge wrote: »
    just adding to my above post. The work done by previous leaders didnt just lay the foundations for Bertie, they practically built the house for him.

    In years to come I hope everyone is well enough educated to know that the great leaders of Ireland were not neccessarily the ones in power when life was great and we all had two houses, huge cars, were corrupt and lied to our families :rolleyes:


    Due credit must also be given to Ray McSharry and Chales Haughey who in 1987 made the tough decisions shiked by FG/Lab between 1982-87...


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    #113
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Due credit must also be given to Ray McSharry and Chales Haughey who in 1987 made the tough decisions shiked by FG/Lab between 1982-87...

    Fixing in turn the problems caused by Haughey et al in the 1977 giveaway.


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    #114
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    You know, I'm no fan of FF or Bertie. No fan at all.

    I think he should resign, not because of the allegations, but because the whle fiasco makes his position of head of government, pretty much untenable.

    But when the leader of your government, sends thousands to their deaths for profit and plunges your country into a recession, then you can start moaning about corruption and the economy.


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    #115
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,783 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I'm confident that most - if not all - those saying no would have the same position irrespective of who the accusations were being levelled at? You are all to be commended on that.

    However, I'm not swayed by principle, party affiliation largely determines my view on this or any issue.
    If this was about a FG or Labour leader i would have a different position on the matter than i do.


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    #116
    Jonny Arson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Jonny Arson


    Do you believe he should resign due to the fact that he has committed all of these offences?
    Unquestionably, yes. The man is not fit to be Taoiseach. Just 2 of hundred of reasons.....
    "The public are entitled to have an absolute guarantee of the financial probity and integrity of their elected representatives, their officials and above all of Ministers. They need to know that they are under financial obligations to nobody."
    "I might have appointed somebody but I appointed them because they were friends, not because of anything they had given me"

    Do you think that the Greens and PDs should pull out of government if Ahern refuses to resign due to him demeaning politics?
    Yes but sadly for democracy the PDs have been joined at the hip to FF for a over decade now (see Noel Grealish this week) and we all know about what the term 'principles' mean to the Green Party since June 2007.

    and if I hear another soldier of destiny sh!te on about great economic managment under good aul' Bertie and the FF boys...... :mad:

    is great economic management measured by having an economy dependent on construction?

    is great economic management measured by having hard working young people slog a mortgage on over 10 times their annual salary on 35 year mortgages leading to negative equity with the sole purpose of looking after you property developer buddies (dumping of Bacon report anyone?)

    where is our world class health service? our world class education system? our world class infrastructure? all pissed down the drain on e-voting machines, ministerial payrises and Berties' makeup. thank you Bertie and FF, you incompetent bunch of f**kwits


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    #117
    juuge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 792 ✭✭✭juuge


    Mary O'Rourke today called Enda Kenny's behaviour towards bertie as an 'act of treason'.
    No mention of course of the behaviour of CJH who sold Irish passports.
    It's has always amazed me how reluctant the lenihan family are to criticise the Fianna Fail leadership, especially mary o rourke who's brother brian lenihan was publicly shafted by CJH. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye. Judging by the recent over-the-top reaction of the likes of mary o rourke and senior ministers within FF it looks as though we are finally getting nearer the truth.


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    #118
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Bertie will go or stay when it suits him, as we all know by now, Bertie does only what suits Bertie. So those people who think he can be embarrassed into going , no chance. CJH will be canonized yet, it would turn your stomach. FF have been in power for too long IMO and have started to believe their own BS. A lame duck leader is not the way forward for the country, put the country first not the party.


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    #119
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    juuge wrote: »
    Mary O'Rourke today called Enda Kenny's behaviour towards bertie as an 'act of treason'.

    :eek: did she really say that?
    I always though MO'D was one of the more sensible senior FF'ers. Just shows how badly they are rattled...


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    #120
    juuge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 792 ✭✭✭juuge


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    :eek: did she really say that? ...

    She sure did, on the breakfast show (newstalk) this morning.


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    #121
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    :eek: did she really say that?
    I always though MO'D was one of the more sensible senior FF'ers. Just shows how badly they are rattled...

    No, Mary is gaff prone alas, shoots her mouth off before thinking.


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