And we think America is bad...

eroo

On average,there are 50 murders and 125 rapes in South Africa EVERYDAY!!!!!!!I couldn't believe it when I read the Irish Indo the other day when there was an article about the police commisioners link to a South African gangster..

And people say the US is bad...SA really puts things in proportion.

Gordon

I lived in New York for a while and felt completely safe there. I have never wanted to go to SA due to the danger there.

simu

They have a troubled past and huge inequalities today... is it that surprising?

eroo

simu wrote: »

They have a troubled past and huge inequalities today... is it that surprising?

Well considering that the statistics would suggest that there are 45,625 rapes a year and 18,250 murders...then yes that is surprising!:eek:

Danbo!

I work with a few people from SA, and you wouldnt believe some of the stories ive heard. You can carry a gun, but chances are if anyone who wants it sees it on you, you'll be killed for it. so much for feeling safe carrying one.

Gordon wrote: »

I lived in New York for a while and felt completely safe there. I have never wanted to go to SA due to the danger there.

apparently really improved in the last 5 years. Safest large city in the states (not sure what defines large, assume Chicago, LA, san fran, washington etc). I was there for a week last year and its hard not to feel safe, even away from the tourist spots and around Harlem and areas with bad reputations, it seemed absolutely fine.

Lockstep

eroo wrote: »

Well considering that the statistics would suggest that there are 45,625 rapes a year and 18,250 murders...then yes that is surprising!:eek:

Did antone see Ross Kemp on the Numbers Gang in Pollsmoor?

Even the rapes there were chilling.

rosarosa

ye, true that the situation in SA is quite bad at the moment. I lived there a few years as I have relations there, and yes, it was an eye-opener.

I think what you have to bear in mind is that the arpartheid legacy will live on for a very, very long time. I remember at Nelson Mandela's inauguration (my father was there, in a nose-bleed section, ---was forced to see those pictures over and over...), everyone in Southern Africa was upbeat, with great expectations....But we have to realise that

a) arpartheid led to deep mistrust of other "races", that didn't just go away after 1994. my own cousins still don't like people of Indian descent

b) I don;t know if anyone gave a thought what would happen to all the guns, weapons, and hoodlums that carried out the work of the armed wing of the ANC after independence. they didn;t just vanish, and from what I have seen, once people get a taste of violence, it rarely leaves them.

c) I guess that the disenfranchised people expected some sort of manna from heaven after 1994, but of course, that didn't happen. Rich white South Africans like Sol Kerzner weren't exactly going to give away all their money to the poor folk, but of course, all those township residents expected some sort of improvement in their lives, and when it wasn't forethcoming, a lot of resentment build up, especially against thier own who managed to get ahead through favours, or whatever, and against oreigners (other africans) who were able to take advantage of independence. plus, the native population was vastly illiterate, so they had little chance as it was. so if some guy from a township decides he wants a pair of Nike runners and you are wearing his size, well, he's not going to feel to bad taking them away from you by force. (Also there is a small matter of tribal customs, and largely, at least among the people I have encountered, society is still a man's world there, and macho culture runs strong)

d) from personal experience, I can say that the scars of racism and sheer nastiness based upon the colour of your skin takes a LONG time to go away....my mother says that first, all the people that remember the old days have to die, then their kids have to be gone before any of the hatred goes away...in about 60 years...maybe. I doubt many people on this board would know the frustration, anger, and yes, hatred that is still felt by many South Africans. My girl cousin in Jo'burg comes out with some of the worst vitriol I've ever heard, but when I listen to her stories (she is in her 40s, I can begin to understand her)

So saying, it's a beautiful country, my granddaddy was from there, and I love it still.

GAAman

noblestee wrote: »

I work with a few people from SA, and you wouldnt believe some of the stories ive heard. You can carry a gun, but chances are if anyone who wants it sees it on you, you'll be killed for it. so much for feeling safe carrying one.

Sure that wont stop them when i was in Durban i was in my uncles factory working and saw a riot and there was homemade guns which i think were made of wood!! :eek:

Morlar

I worked with a south african guy for about 4 years - and the stories would make your hair stand on end. He said he would never live there again and only goes back to visit when he has to. He loved the place - said it was beautiful as anywhere but with all the carjackings, rapes and murders & social problems he would not raise a family there.

super_furry

I'm still surprised they gave them the World Cup. It's the first World Cup in years I don't want to go to.

WhiteWashMan

I dont think america is bad...

A-Trak

Carjacking is completely rampant also. A SA lad I worked with told me that when driving in some area's and especially at night the sensible thing to do was to drive with a gun in your lap.

Some enterprising inventor also came up with a "novel" anti car jacking device. Involving flamethrowers. And it's all good and legal.

Story here

How it works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc

unreggd

Just cos SA is worse, doesnt mean America isnt bad

Sure America have a "non corrupt" government and some sort of democracy and all that jazz

And the figures for America are huge, but if you do percentages they're small cos of the huge population

unreggd

Just cos SA is worse, doesnt mean America isnt bad

Sure America have a "non corrupt" government and some sort of democracy and all that jazz

And the figures for America are huge, but if you do percentages they're small cos of the huge population

SantryRed

To be honest I'm not really that surprised with them stats.

I wonder how many of them are raced related though?

Boggles

Cape Town is safe.

Jo'Burg - Welcome to the Jungle!!!

hopalong85

SantryRed wrote: »

To be honest I'm not really that surprised with them stats.

I wonder how many of them are raced related though?

I think you'll find the majority of those murders are people murdering others of their own race.

On a side note i go to S. Africa quite a lot and although the figures are pretty shocking i've seen a lot more trouble on the streets of Dublin. It's a case of avoiding the wrong areas from what i've seen tbh. Most of the main tourist, business districts etc. are well policed. Mind you, my experience of the cities down there is limited to Cape Town and i believe Joburg and Durban are far worse for violent crime.

Oilrig

Ahhhh South Africa...

Gods Country, absolutely amazing place.

Very nearly bought a place there in '03 (Amanzimtoti, nr Durban) was a global vagabond at the time looking for somewhere to drop an anchor & unpack...

Have worked with many Saffers, visited them at home etc. Top folks.

Sadly, its slowly going down the plug hole, usual African story - dodgy leaders.

Crime is only one symptom.

Really really sad :mad:

sharkDawg

Saw a program a while back about how there preparation for the world cup is going, those stats came up, its something fifa are very worried about, but i'm sure there will be ridiculous amounts of security and rightly so

Boggles

Security is huge business over there, what I found amazing was you go to the equivalent of Tesco and there are 4 guys walking around with shotguns watching the cars.

Most houses have a panic button, if it gets pressed, security shows up and if you don't know the password they will shoot you.

Police force is rampant with corruption, got caught speeding, got off by giving the cop a T-Shirt.

Brilliant place to go thou, if you get the chance, jump at it.

kraggy

eroo wrote: »

Well considering that the statistics would suggest that there are 45,625 rapes a year and 18,250 murders...then yes that is surprising!:eek:

US statistics for 2006: 92,455 instances of rape
17,034 murders

Roughly same number of murders but there were twice as many rapes in proportion to murders in the US than in S.Africa.

Same number of murders in S.A but only 1/7th of the population of United States.

Overheal

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

I dont think america is bad...

its pretty dangerous in certain places but for the most part you still feel safe walking down the road... even though most people drive.... because theyre afraid to walk... and everything is far away....

basically americans seemed to have distance themselves by design. maybe they thought they were getting to communist back in the cold war and thats why nothing is built centrally anymore - you basically need a car to do anything and that only starts the issue on people distancing themselves from their fellow man. Which is a shame because your fellow man is still normally the same good person he always was.

America isnt that dangerous to be honest but you wont catch me wandering around LA or anything.

andyl222

don't forget the great white sharks.... tut tut,troublemakers.

Terry

As bad as it sounds, I'll bet they don't have skangers whose appearance (tracksuits) disturbs you.

Murders and rapes aside, I would be willing to bet that Ireland is far worse and that everything here rwally is worse than everywhere else in the world.

I went abroad once, to the tourist area, and I loved it. I'm moving there as son as Berite and his fascist government allow me to leave this country.

WhiteWashMan

Overheal wrote: »

basically americans seemed to have distance themselves by design. maybe they thought they were getting to communist back in the cold war and thats why nothing is built centrally anymore - you basically need a car to do anything and that only starts the issue on people distancing themselves from their fellow man. Which is a shame because your fellow man is still normally the same good person he always was.

America isnt that dangerous to be honest but you wont catch me wandering around LA or anything.

Actually, I think you will find that its just becuase there is so much more space, that people didnt feel the need to build on top of each other.
Australia is exactly the same. I dont think its about distancing yourself from other people, I think its more about having your own space.

Although, im not sure what this nonsense is about your fellow man being a good person. everyone knows the public are scum!

Reku

sharkDawg wrote: »

Saw a program a while back about how there preparation for the world cup is going, those stats came up, its something fifa are very worried about, but i'm sure there will be ridiculous amounts of security and rightly so

With the threat of British football hooligans I'd imagine there'll be plenty of security... one reason to be glad we've a sh*t team in Ireland (we don't get to attend big events like this).:)

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Although, im not sure what this nonsense is about your fellow man being a good person. everyone knows the public are scum!

Another wise misanthropist. *nods approvingly*

cold_filter

A few years ago while working in Tesco for my sins... One of the security guards was a former S police officer and he told me some chocking stories, But when he said whats the first thing that popped into your head when you think of SA, I said the anti car jacking devices his reply "thats all everyone talks about!"

There's another one with solid steel bars basically it smashes your shins looks very painful!

ScumLord

NY did feel safe, even though my cousin, a local kept pointing at random people on the street calling them crack whores. We where coming back from a club and there where no cops around. Still we didn't have any trouble.

Kur4mA

No, I don't think America is bad at all. This forum should be renamed American BS due to all these stupid threads. Maybe a thread titled "South Africa daily murder rate is shocking!" and then include the nice shock smily in your post a few times like you did would have been better?

OPENROAD

farohar wrote: »

With the threat of British football hooligans I'd imagine there'll be plenty of security... one reason to be glad we've a sh*t team in Ireland (we don't get to attend big events like this).:)


The vast majority of England fans are not hooligans. And it would not be just England fans that would pose a threat,have you seen want Eastern European football fans are like. Just thought I would mention that.

Terry

OPENROAD wrote: »

farohar wrote: »

With the threat of British football hooligans I'd imagine there'll be plenty of security... one reason to be glad we've a sh*t team in Ireland (we don't get to attend big events like this).:)

The vast majority of England fans are not hooligans. And it would not be just England fans that would pose a threat,have you seen want Eastern European football fans are like. Just thought I would mention that.

The dutch and Italians are no angels themselves.
Of course, not all of them are hooligans. Wouldn't you agree?

connundrum

Those stats are the reason why we moved out of Johannesburg in 1995 - added to that, our neighbour was shot in the back whilst trying to escape over our joining wall when his house was getting burgled.

Me and the Mrs are going over to visit my parents in Cape Town on Friday this week. Cape Town is a different bag of nuts.

I wouldn't move back to Johannesburg, but there are also parts of Ireland I wouldn't move to so I'm not really bothered either way.

The stats don't take into account the amount of people murdered by Americans off American soil

Terry

connundrum wrote: »

The stats don't take into account the amount of people murdered by Americans off American soil

Indeed. That would be in the millions.

eroo

kyub wrote: »

No, I don't think America is bad at all. This forum should be renamed American BS due to all these stupid threads. Maybe a thread titled "South Africa daily murder rate is shocking!" and then include the nice shock smily in your post a few times like you did would have been better?

Its just a title...grumpy are we?;)

Reku

OPENROAD wrote: »

farohar wrote: »

With the threat of British football hooligans I'd imagine there'll be plenty of security... one reason to be glad we've a sh*t team in Ireland (we don't get to attend big events like this).:)

The vast majority of England fans are not hooligans. And it would not be just England fans that would pose a threat,have you seen want Eastern European football fans are like. Just thought I would mention that.

I never said the vast majority were, merely that there was the threat of the hooligans showing up.;)
I have heard about eastern European football hooligans and German ones too, but for the recent world cups it seemed to be the English ones who grabbed the limelight the most.
In all honesty though I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ireland began to develop its own little troop of football hooligans just because the ********* feel it's an excuse to act up.

Overheal

kyub wrote: »

This forum should be renamed American BS due to all these stupid threads.

They wont let me rename it :rolleyes:

watna

rosarosa wrote: »

a) arpartheid led to deep mistrust of other "races", that didn't just go away after 1994. my own cousins still don't like people of Indian descent

.

wow, it feels so weird to read that. My bf is from South Africa originally and is of Indian descent. I guess it makes it more real to see that you know people that feel that way whereas i just don't see the Indian part. I guess it's the culture, my bfs family stay in their Indian community and don't know many white people either. He's going home for 6 weeks soon but I didn't want to go with him, it would be too much of a culture shock.

He says when he goes home to SA he doesn't feel safe, that you have to be more careful and do things very differently. He sleeps with a baseball bat under his bed and he says creaks in the house wake him up in case it's someone trying to get in. It's happened to his family before and they live in a relatively safe area.

I've told him I will NEVER EVER live in SA with him. For starters I'd stand out like a sore thumb in his community and secondly I wouldn't feel safe. Also, he constanly describes his relatives/friends as narrow-minded. They've never left SA and think that post-apartheid SA is what the world is like.

Not my cup of tea at all, or his really seeming as his immediate family emigrated.

Plus, the new ANC leader (I think) they elected admitted to having unprotected sex with women even though AIDS is rampant. He told people it was ok because he had a shower straight after!!! I mean if your leaders are that uneducated you need to change a few things.

ScumLord

OPENROAD wrote: »

The vast majority of England fans are not hooligans. And it would not be just England fans that would pose a threat,have you seen want Eastern European football fans are like. Just thought I would mention that.

I wouldn't say that. I was over in Birmingham working 2 years ago. We where staying over a pub and where awoken by sirens and shouting. The cops where escorting bus loads of soccer fans to a match, They're only allowed to travel by an organised bus they can't just travel up on they're own.

Some of the fans stayed in the pub to watch the match (about 5 of them). They where had the ol skin head look but where well dressed I wouldn't have taken them for scumbags at all if I'd seen them in the street. They spent the whole match screaming and shouting abuse at the tv. Every so often they'd kick of push a chair it was scary. After the match was over they settle right down and where normal again.

They got so worked up during the match they where turning nasty. You might say that's to be expected but you'd never see anything close to that in GAA matches. The owner of the pub said it was typical for English lads to turn nasty when supporting their local team.

newestUser

watna wrote: »

Plus, the new ANC leader (I think) they elected admitted to having unprotected sex with women even though AIDS is rampant. He told people it was ok because he had a shower straight after!!! I mean if your leaders are that uneducated you need to change a few things.

One in five of the South African adult population is HIV positive. There's something crazy like five or six million people who are HIV positive in the country. They've the worst AIDS epidemic in the world. Another reason to steer the f*ck clear.

Sir Gallagher

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. I was over in Birmingham working 2 years ago. We where staying over a pub and where awoken by sirens and shouting. The cops where escorting bus loads of soccer fans to a match, They're only allowed to travel by an organised bus they can't just travel up on they're own.

Some of the fans stayed in the pub to watch the match (about 5 of them). They where had the ol skin head look but where well dressed I wouldn't have taken them for scumbags at all if I'd seen them in the street. They spent the whole match screaming and shouting abuse at the tv. Every so often they'd kick of push a chair it was scary. After the match was over they settle right down and where normal again.

They got so worked up during the match they where turning nasty. You might say that's to be expected but you'd never see anything close to that in GAA matches. The owner of the pub said it was typical for English lads to turn nasty when supporting their local team.

I had to laugh at that post, you can't honestly base your opinion of English soccer fans on that story can you? I'm a Liverpool fan and i've been over a few times for matchdays and althouh there is nasty elements the atmosphere's electric and the whole city seems to be buzzing, I do think there's a big difference between supporting club and country over there though, because people support their clubs with so much passion it's hard for them all to get together and get behind the national team without looking like idiots! Be it through hooliganism or booing players/managers, it's funny really.

ScumLord

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I had to laugh at that post, you can't honestly base your opinion of English soccer fans on that story can you?

You just try and stop me.:cool: That's my only experience of English soccer fans so that's all I have to go on.

Sir Gallagher

ScumLord wrote: »

You just try and stop me.:cool: That's my only experience of English soccer fans so that's all I have to go on.

I'm not trying to stop anything, lol. I'm just saying that you obviously can't make a judgement on just one bad experience which didn't even sound that bad to be honest.

ScumLord

It wasn't that bad no I was just very surprised. They where bordering on violence and seemed like they could kick off at any second. Everyone in the pub (just the staff and us no one else would come near the place while they where in there) was on edge. Afterwards they went back to normal and noticed how on edge everyone was and left, under police escort.

tallaght01

I used to work in A+E in Johannesburg.

I have never seen so many shot people in my life.....and I worked in Glasgow for years

On my first day in Joburg, I had a patient who had been shot by his mate...because they were arguing over who was going to have his last cigarette. The guy ended up paralysed. All because of a cigarette.

It was literally like a war zone there.

Plug

eroo wrote: »

On average,there are 50 murders and 125 rapes in South Africa EVERYDAY!!!!!!!I couldn't believe it when I read the Irish Indo the other day when there was an article about the police commisioners link to a South African gangster..

And people say the US is bad...SA really puts things in proportion.

There all hungry down there, thats the prob.
How to solve you might ask?
Nuke them.

ScumLord

Plug wrote: »

There all hungry down there, thats the prob.
How to solve you might ask?
Nuke them.

That would take a microwave of unthinkable proportions

OPENROAD

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. I was over in Birmingham working 2 years ago. We where staying over a pub and where awoken by sirens and shouting. The cops where escorting bus loads of soccer fans to a match, They're only allowed to travel by an organised bus they can't just travel up on they're own.

Some of the fans stayed in the pub to watch the match (about 5 of them). They where had the ol skin head look but where well dressed I wouldn't have taken them for scumbags at all if I'd seen them in the street. They spent the whole match screaming and shouting abuse at the tv. Every so often they'd kick of push a chair it was scary. After the match was over they settle right down and where normal again.

They got so worked up during the match they where turning nasty. You might say that's to be expected but you'd never see anything close to that in GAA matches. The owner of the pub said it was typical for English lads to turn nasty when supporting their local team.

I would like to ask you how many matches do you normally attend in England. You had one experience and so you base it on that. Like anywhere, Ireland included you are always going to have minor trouble, I have heard reports from people attending GAA matches of trouble but not a mention in the media, yet our media will report incidents involving English football fans. I regularly attend matches in England, only missed one of our home matches last season, and in all those matches saw one very very minor incident, and it happened to involve a russian from an Executive box,throwing a small object at the home fans.Following my team home and abroad I have seen very liitle trouble over the years, in fact I would see more trouble in Dublin on a weekend night.

OPENROAD

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I had to laugh at that post, you can't honestly base your opinion of English soccer fans on that story can you? I'm a Liverpool fan and i've been over a few times for matchdays and althouh there is nasty elements the atmosphere's electric and the whole city seems to be buzzing, I do think there's a big difference between supporting club and country over there though, because people support their clubs with so much passion it's hard for them all to get together and get behind the national team without looking like idiots! Be it through hooliganism or booing players/managers, it's funny really.

Spot on imo, and as an Arsenal fan, some of the best away trips for me have been the Liverpool ones.

Cunny-Funt

Probably the most racist Country on the planet, but I still find it shocking.

elvis2002

Intersting. I'm going to South Africa on Sunday for some work thing for a week. Staying at a resort called the MonteCasino, heard its a cool place but we've been told we can't go outside the resort basically. Public transport is a no go area also.