Buying 2nd hand car from a dealer; haggling...

Wertz

I'm in the market for a new car, have my eye on a couple of models/years/engine types...budget of maybe 8K (money up front).
Most probably going to buy from a dealer as that's how I bought my first car and at least you're alloted some kind of comeback in the event of getting a bad 'un.

My questions ar these; how much leeway do most dealerships give on their ticket price for a 2nd hand? Is there a certain % mark up that a salesman has to play with? I know it's obviously going to differ from one place to the next but in general what sort of figure should I be haggling to....or should I be haggling at all?
If I go to the VRT calculator and input the car's details, is this a good indication of the market value of an Irish car, or is it only for vehilces that haven't already had the VRT paid on them? If it isn't, where is a good place to find out a proper market value?
Anything else I should know or tips?
I realise there are perhaps dealers/sellers on here that don't want to give too much away, but throw me a bone here.


All replies and advice is very much appreciated.

Anan1

The most important piece of advice I can give you is to forget about percentages off the asking price. Instead, offer what you feel the car's worth. As you've guessed, the amount the seller has to play with varies from car to car. The VRT website will give approximate values for the market value of an Irish car, but it does tend to undervalue a bit. Carzone, in contrast, tends to overvalue.;)

PauloMN

Wertz wrote: »

I'm in the market for a new car, have my eye on a couple of models/years/engine types...budget of maybe 8K (money up front).
Most probably going to buy from a dealer as that's how I bought my first car and at least you're alloted some kind of comeback in the event of getting a bad 'un.

My questions ar these; how much leeway do most dealerships give on their ticket price for a 2nd hand? Is there a certain % mark up that a salesman has to play with? I know it's obviously going to differ from one place to the next but in general what sort of figure should I be haggling to....or should I be haggling at all?
If I go to the VRT calculator and input the car's details, is this a good indication of the market value of an Irish car, or is it only for vehilces that haven't already had the VRT paid on them? If it isn't, where is a good place to find out a proper market value?
Anything else I should know or tips?
I realise there are perhaps dealers/sellers on here that don't want to give too much away, but throw me a bone here.


All replies and advice is very much appreciated.

Always haggle, always. Whether new, used, big, small, dear, cheap.... always haggle.

It's been covered here loads of times but my advice would be:
- Do plenty of research: if you know what you want, search the web and papers/magazines for similar cars to gauge what the asking prices are.
- Pick maybe 5 cars that fit the bill in terms of make/model, spec, mileage, condition and price (approx).
- Visit these 5 cars, take a look and test drive the ones that really appeal to you.
- Narrow it down to 2 or 3 cars and ask each for their lowest cash price, make a big deal of the fact you have no trade-in etc.. Perfect customer and all that sh1te.
- Take the lowest price offered and try to bargain the other dealers down if the cars are better. If the best car is the cheapest, you really can't do much better.
- Once you've decided, you can chance another few quid off by commiting to a purchase there and then. Tell the dealer you'll take the car right then if he/she's willing to drop just a little more. Worth a shot!

Aside from that advice, make sure you check out the car properly with history checks and a mechanical check if you are not confident of checking it yourself. Check for clocking by doing a mileage check, and check the service history. If there's none, I'd be inclined to walk away. Use anything you find to beat down the price, e.g. if the tyres are close to the end of their life, you'll need to allow for that.

Good luck!

Wertz

So say I see something on carzone for 7,600, VRT calc shows it as more like 6,700...splitting the difference comes to 7,150....is 7,150 where you would start to haggle or about where you should be looking to deal (after starting lower)?
I understand that at these prices, there's not an awful lot of leeway and that a dealer won't sell at a loss, but am I right to try? It's only worth what someone will pay etc.
As a cash buyer, am I at a greater advantage?

[edit] Thx PauloMN, that clears a lot up for me.

alias no.9

Have some balls, let them know you're serious and that you're a cash buyer, then offer the absolute minimum you think the car may be worth. Be prepared to start walking off the forecourt in order to get them to negotiate, this is best done at quiet times so they don't just move onto another customer. Never ever disclose your budget to the salesman because everything will suddenly cost your max budget.

PauloMN

I think you're getting caught up too much in figures. You should only be concerned about the price once you have narrowed your search right down and have test driven a few cars. Obviously if people are asking silly money for cars you can filter those out, but don't get too caught up in trying to put definite values on cars you've only seen in cyberspace.

As A#9 says, don't disclose any budget in dealings with a sales person. When I'm asked about that I say I've no budget (which is true - I'll pay what I think a car is worth if it's what I want). They'll know enough about your budget by the type of car you are after anyway, and that's all they need to know.

When it comes to the crunch, if you like a car after test driving it and assuming all else pans out well (service history and other checks), I'd express an interest in buying to the dealer. See what they say, then press the fact you are a cash buyer. To answer your question, it's a great advantage to be a cash buyer and sticker prices are usually a good deal higher than the cash price so as to make those with trade-ins seem like they are getting a better price for their old car, when really they are not. Ask them for a cash price on the car and tell you'll have a think about it. If it's a common car, you can let them know that you have a number of other similar cars you are considering and want (obviously) to get the best deal. At that point, you'll have a cash figure to work with - from the sales person, you'll have your idea of what it's worth, and if you really like the car, you can hit them with the "look, let's cut to the chase" bit and tell them you are willing to buy right there and now if they can drop a bit more on the price.

Don't get annoyed if they don't drop further, all sales people are different and he/she may have already dropped to their minimum price whereas others may not have. At that point, you can decide whether you have the best deal for the best car, and decide whether you want to mull it over or check elsewhere.

--amadeus--

Don't get hung up on %'s as every dealer will be different and - as has been said before - do your homework and know whats out there and at what prices.

Once you have picked your car have three broad prices in mind. 1 - what you want to pay (best of all worlds). 2 - what you expect to pay (a resonible figure) 3 - whats your better get (a tenner off for petrol or whatever!). Knowing the maximum you'll be happy paying stops you over-spending and you open the bidding at your position number 1, letting them work you up to #2 or 3 depending on what they throw in.

So for example, lets suppose my 1, 2 and 3 prices are 500 / 750 and 1000. I'll offer €500 and teh dealer says no way. I then say "tell you what, I'll move up if you throw in an extended warrenty" or "I'll go to 650 if you change the tyres" or whatever. Gain a concession for every euro!

Emphasise what you have - cash in hand and no trade in, willing to drive away today. Go at the end of a month when targets will have to be met. All these will weaken resolve. I once got an addition £200 off by having the cash physically with me and placing my offer actually physically on the table (a trick I learned from teh TV). The salesmans eyes lit up and we shook hands on the spot!

As a practical example I have just bought a classic car from a dealer. I went with a 2nd car in mind if this one wasn't right and began by carefully inspecting the car from front to back, inside and out. I then went to the salesman and said taht it wasn't the condition I wanted but I might be interested. If he was willing to move on price we'd go for a test drive, otherwise we'd head away. Straight away the salesperson knows you are serious and it gets him "softened up" - on teh test drive he's thinking how much he'll have to discount. Of course if he says no dice then you have to be prepared to walk!

After the drive I then asked teh dealer to name his best price. At this point you MUST keep quiet (the next person to speak will "lose" the negotiation!). He named a price that was a few hundred less than sticker. I countered with a silly low offer and justified this with a list of things I would have to do to teh car and how much that would cost as well as emphasising that I had cash in my pocket. By the time we shook hands the sales price had dropped by €1,100.

Discounts can be done - enjoy the process, it's all just a game!

prospect

Example,

If a car is advertised as being 10K, and you thing it is worth 9K, (based on comparisions with others cars) then go to the dealer with NO MORE than 9k. Be prepared to walk away.

Look at the car, and point out any flaws, or inadequacies. Then open negotiations by stating you are interested in the car, but the price is not right for you.

Make an offer below 9K, say 8,250, because there is a bit of damage here and you were hoping for a lower mileage example. Haggle your way, and when you feel the dealer has hit their rock bottom, start negotiating with extras, maybe a full tank of fuel, or new floor mats, or a boot net, etc.

Dealers expect hagglers, don't be afraid to do it. Pick a max price in your head and stick with it. Be prepared to walk away.

(in the exaple above, if the dealer won't drop to 9K and you wave the 9K cash under their nose and say it is all you have, they will close the deal.)

Wertz

Thanks for all the lengthy replies and great advice so far folks. Lots of aspects I hadn't considered, especially things like end of month targets.
In terms of walking in with cash, is walking in with a bank draft/part cash/debit card/credit card in the same league? Not sure I'm comforatble carrying a lot of cash for various reasons. Or does pure cash hold more weight (perhaps in terms of creative book-keeping for the dealer)?

alias no.9

Wertz wrote: »

In terms of walking in with cash, is walking in with a bank draft/part cash/debit card/credit card in the same league?

If you're happy with the car, come back with a draft for the ammount you'd like to pay and enough cash to cover the difference between that and the most you're prepared to pay.

PauloMN

Wertz wrote: »

Or does pure cash hold more weight (perhaps in terms of creative book-keeping for the dealer)?

No, a cash sale just means you're paying the whole amount for the car rather than trading in a car as part-exchange.

You'd want to avoid those dealers that'll be "creative" with their accounts as if they're happy to defraud the system, they'd have no problem selling you a clocked/crashed/dodgy motor.

Wertz

Aye good point, I'm 99% likely to be dealing with a forecourt franchised affair anyhow.
Some rogue's lock up in the middle of nowhere is unlikely to have what I'm after anyway and probably wouldn't offer a warranty that was worth the paper it was printed on...