Letting agent looking for too much info

colm_c

Myself and my flatmates were looking at a place today (with 5 other groups of potential renters), and post viewing the agent asked us for:

* Work Reference
* A copy of Photo ID/Passport
* PPS number
* Copy of a utility bill

And this isn't even so we can sign contracts - this is before they even offer us the place.

I thought this was too much information to be giving someone (Work reference aside) when we're potentially not going to be signing contracts.

I queried the agent about this and he said it was standard policy.

Surely agents can't be looking for this amount of information at this stage of the rental process, can they?

Cantab.

colm_c wrote: »

Myself and my flatmates were looking at a place today (with 5 other groups of potential renters), and post viewing the agent asked us for:

* Work Reference
* A copy of Photo ID/Passport
* PPS number
* Copy of a utility bill

And this isn't even so we can sign contracts - this is before they even offer us the place.

I thought this was too much information to be giving someone (Work reference aside) when we're potentially not going to be signing contracts.

I queried the agent about this and he said it was standard policy.

Surely agents can't be looking for this amount of information at this stage of the rental process, can they?

In reality, they can do what they like. It's the roof over YOUR head, not theirs.

colm_c

To be honest I won't be renting from a letting agent when they're looking for this much information.

See here:
http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/cop.html#2.1

"It is an offence for any person or body to request or hold a record of a PPS No. unless they are permitted by law to do so. [1] It is therefore the duty of all bodies to ensure that they are specified in law as being so entitled, before they request or hold a record of any person's PPS No."

The_Conductor

colm_c can you PM me the name and contact details for the letting agent please.

S.

bugler

I have no problem giving references, but there's no way I'd give photocopies of any form of ID (particularly passport or drivers licence), and no way I'd give my PPS number. It is not standard. There are agents who ask for it though, I'd avoid them.

A Random Walk

I don't think it's excessive and I'm very much pro tenants rights.

Work reference to ensure that you are employed and can pay the rent - often they will ask for a bank reference instead.

A copy of photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, not a problem.

PPS number has to given to the PRTB when you're being registered. It's standard these days and for your benefit.

Haven't a clue why they would want a utility bill, that's usually for confirming your address.

Pa ElGrande

I think the information being requested is reasonable, they are running a business and need to be satisfied that the potential tenants are capable of paying for the service, also if someone causes substantial damage and does a runner, they need to be able to pursue the person to recover the costs. Almost every landlord who has been in the business for a while will have their tales about the tenant from hell.

Is the agent supplying this information to another party? if so they must be registered with the Data Protection Commissioner.

Victor

colm_c, if it doesn't seem right, walk away. Those detail would be perfect for stealing an identity.

A Random Walk wrote: »

PPS number has to given to the PRTB when you're being registered. It's standard these days and for your benefit.

The agent doesn't need this.

AFAIK, there is no obligation for the tenant to include it on the PRTB form.

colm_c

I point blank refused to give them my PPS number, photo ID or a utility bill until they bring us in to sign a lease.

Even then I'm not giving my PPS number out.

Ste.phen

Well you need to give your PPSN for the PRTB (TBH).
So good luck with that :-)

colm_c

I've been renting in Dublin for the last 6/7 years and never had to give out my PPS number or fill out the PRTB form.

I'd happily fill in my section of the PRTB form, I just don't see why the letting agent is looking for it when we don't even know if we're moving in.

A Random Walk

Victor wrote: »

AFAIK, there is no obligation for the tenant to include it on the PRTB form.

Why has this become a matter of opinion? Just look at the PRTB site where it is in black and white.

the_syco

A Random Walk wrote: »

Why has this become a matter of opinion? Just look at the PRTB site where it is in black and white.

PPSN of Tenant: (see Notes F and I)

F PPSN (also known as RSI number) is unique to each individual and is used to distinguish between individuals with similar names or addresses. The PPSN is usually identified on tax and welfare statements and P60s. If you do not have a PPSN number please contact your local Department of Social and Family Affairs (DSFA) office. Use of the PPSN is governed by law. The PPSN is not to be stored or used for any purpose other than for the registration of a tenancy. The PPSN Code of Practice is available from the DSFA and on their website (www.welfare.ie).

I The PPSN of the tenant(s) should be provided unless it cannot be ascertained by reasonable inquiry. If a tenant does not want the other tenants to see his/her PPSN, then the tenant should provide this to the landlord on a separate piece of paper.

Why would the letting agent need to know the PPS number BEFORE the tenant moved in? Esp as they, by law, cannot store it for any reason at all?

BostonB

Don't believe the internet.

The use of the PPSN for registration purposes by the PRTB is authorised by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and section 11 of the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2004.

...Tenants must provide the landlord with their PPSN. This is because the landlord is statutorily required to obtain it and supply it to the PRTB. Failure by the tenant to supply the PPSN is a breach of the tenant’s obligation under section 16(b) of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, which requires tenants to ensure that no act or omission of theirs causes the landlord not to be compliant with any landlord obligation under any enactment....

...Landlords should therefore insist on the supply of the PPSN. Landlords should be aware, however, that the only use that they are authorised to make of the tenant’s PPSN is to forward it to the PRTB as part of the registration application. It is a confidential number and must not be disclosed to any other person or organisation or put to any other use whatsoever – to do so could constitute a breach of data protection legislation. Where the tenancy consists of multiple tenants who do not wish their PPSN’s to be seen by the other tenants, the landlord should organise the completion of the registration application in such a way (by covering any numbers already inserted) so that each tenant’s PPSN is not disclosed to any other tenant. ...

http://www.prtb.ie/pubregfaq.htm

Consider that if you are not giving your PPS you might not be a registered tenant but a subtenant.

antoinolachtnai

The above information from the PRTB is incorrect. There is simply no requirement for the tenant to supply the PPS number. If the PRTB wants the PPS number, they can seek it from the tenant themselves after the landlord has made reasonable efforts.

There is no requirement to even have a PPS number to rent an apartment.

PRTB used to advise landlords not to accept tenants that didn't have PPS numbers. That was incorrect too.

Tandles

I found this link on Google and signed up to ask a few questions.

This is the list of information we have so far given our letting agency after we put a holding deposit on a flat.

Driving License ID
Three months bank statements
Bank account details
Three months payslips
Work reference
Guarantor passport ID
Guarantor P60
Guarantor three months payslips

This seemed excessive, and now they want three months bank statements from the guarantors also and we just can't see why.

Should we question this? It's a legitimate agents.

dudara

Tandles wrote: »

I found this link on Google and signed up to ask a few questions.

This is the list of information we have so far given our letting agency after we put a holding deposit on a flat.

Driving License ID
Three months bank statements
Bank account details
Three months payslips
Work reference
Guarantor passport ID
Guarantor P60
Guarantor three months payslips

This seemed excessive, and now they want three months bank statements from the guarantors also and we just can't see why.

Should we question this? It's a legitimate agents.

Personally, while I would supply ID and a work reference, that would be the limit. No one gets access to my bank statements or my financial information. Would you trust an idiot agent in an office to protect your financial details?

antoinolachtnai

It's a commercial issue between you and them whether you allow this degree of access.

My issue is that if they are coming back asking for more, and presuming your guarantor does not look like he's on the breadline, then maybe they are just messing around.

It is common enough in other cities for a landlord to do this level of diligence.

Tandles

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It's a commercial issue between you and them whether you allow this degree of access.

My issue is that if they are coming back asking for more, and presuming your guarantor does not look like he's on the breadline, then maybe they are just messing around.

It is common enough in other cities for a landlord to do this level of diligence.

Well for me it's complicated because my guarantor is a part time worker, as my dad is self employed but I couldn't give him as they need proof of income and he does all his own paperwork so it just seemed easier.

My roomate on the other hand has his marketing director dad as a guarantor, so I see no reason why they'd need it from him. he's on the phone to them today.

The_Conductor

Tandles- you're not buying the place. If this was a bank seeking to safeguard its exposure on a mortgage worth a couple of hundred thousand Euro- I'd understand fully where they were coming from. Its not the case. If the people who were renting were very young (aka still teenagers) then possibly a guarantor may be called for- but why any guarantor would allow an invasion of privacy (and in the case of self employed people- or company directors- the imparting of sensitive information) is beyond me.

It seems to be way OTT in my opinion.

Tandles

smccarrick wrote: »

Tandles- you're not buying the place. If this was a bank seeking to safeguard its exposure on a mortgage worth a couple of hundred thousand Euro- I'd understand fully where they were coming from. Its not the case. If the people who were renting were very young (aka still teenagers) then possibly a guarantor may be called for- but why any guarantor would allow an invasion of privacy (and in the case of self employed people- or company directors- the imparting of sensitive information) is beyond me.

It seems to be way OTT in my opinion.

We are young, uni graduates and it's our first place. I see where you're coming from though and I've been annoyed by the amount of sensitive information from the start.

I rang another branch of the company and they explained that they needed the statements in case a credit check failed. This won't happen but I think it's settled now. I'm sure this is the last thing they will ask.

My mates guarantor spoke to the agent and is satisfied with his reasons so I guess it's ok for now. I just need to make sure it all gets destroyed later.

BostonB

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The above information from the PRTB is incorrect. There is simply no requirement for the tenant to supply the PPS number. If the PRTB wants the PPS number, they can seek it from the tenant themselves after the landlord has made reasonable efforts.

There is no requirement to even have a PPS number to rent an apartment.

PRTB used to advise landlords not to accept tenants that didn't have PPS numbers. That was incorrect too.

Why do they have it on their site then?

RoryW

If you think what they are looking for is excessive, be thankful you are not in America !

From a US Rental agency website which is based in New York

Whether applying for an apartment in a Rental, Co-op or Condo, you will most likely need the following documentation. If you assume that there are no exceptions to the items on these lists, you will have the documentation needed to apply for virtually any apartment in Manhattan.

Letter from your employer stating position, salary and length of employment. (or start date if you have not yet begun working)
Last two (2) pay stubs (if already working)
Last two (2) years tax returns
Last two (2) months bank statements
Name, addresses, and phone numbers of previous landlords
Two personal reference letters
Two business reference letters
Verification of other assets such as real estate, securities, etc.
Photo identification

If you have yet to open a New York City bank account or do not have a social security number, let your agent know in advance of your arrival. In cases where you are applying for an apartment in a condo or co-op, be prepared to present a complete description of your assets and liabilities.

Now that really covers EVERYTHING

antoinolachtnai

BostonB wrote: »

Why do they have it on their site then?

Don't know. You'd need to ask them that.

BostonB

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Don't know. You'd need to ask them that.

Where are you getting the information that a landlord is not required to give a PPSN and that a Tenant is not required to give one to be registered.

antoinolachtnai

From the Act. The landlord is required to make reasonable enquiry about the tenant's ppsn, and nothing more.

The landlord is required to give his/her own PPSN. That is correct.