Do Admin have access to members Private Messages...?

Tommy T

I ask this for a few reasons. Firstly I think if there is the ability to read them members should be informed of this.


Secondly on another vbulletin board I'm a member of, footballforums.net, it was discovered Admin were reading all PM traffic on a daily basis without the membership ever knowing it was capable of doing so in the first place...

biko

Yes, admins can read PMs. They have access to everything to do with this (their) site.
It's their sandbox, we only play in it.

Gordon

The Admins of any fora will most likely have the ability to read anything in the MYSQL database. Yes, the admins here would be able to access your PMs if they so wish but I for one trust them enough not to do this.

Do you use boards on a shared computer?

Mr. Presentable

Gordon wrote: »

I for one trust them enough not to do this.

To be fair Gordon, that's just naiive. Your best insurance is that they'd never have time to read them all, so maybe they never get around to yours.

Only an innocent lamb would put anything personal, private or litigious in a PM on an internet messageboard.

Tommy T

As I thought. I've no reason not to trust the admins here. I just think it should be made public their ability to access 'Private Messages'...

biko

You make me want to read your PMs now Tommy

6th

If you dont want people to read something then dont write it down ... anywhere!

Mr Magnolia

It is no secret afaik. I always assumed they could, as biko said we're in their sandbox.

I agree with Gordon too, the admins have better things to do than read PM's really. I'm also of the opinion that they wouldn't infringe on people privacy like that.

Any mail anywhere would be accessible by a proficient enough hacker I would have thought, too many spy films maybe...

Hagar

The Admins ability to read PMs has been mentioned before.
On every system there is always at least one person with total access.
You either trust them or you don't.
If you trust them there is no cause for concern.
If you don't trust them why are you still here?

Gordon

nipplenuts wrote: »

To be fair Gordon, that's just naiive.

I can understand how people would think this and I can understand that people would be cautious about putting up private data when there are admins that have full access to it.

I've met three admins on a few occasions and have conversed with all via private messages, plus I have a good understanding of their ethics from reading their posts over the years. This is why I personally have trust in them. I wouldn't expect anyone to trust them based on my word.

Saruman

Tommy T wrote: »

As I thought. I've no reason not to trust the admins here. I just think it should be made public their ability to access 'Private Messages'...

Why the need? anyone with any intelligence would know that they obviously have the ability.... im not sure that by default there is an admin button in vBulletin to read PM's... probably not.. but they would obviously have the ability to access the database and maybe make a "read tommyT's PM's" button if they wanted to.

Even if they were to put it in a disclaimer, who would read it? Did you read anything like that when signing up to eircom or gmail or whoever provides your email? Doubt it.

Tommy T

Hagar wrote: »

The Admins ability to read PMs has been mentioned before.
On every system there is always at least one person with total access.
You either trust them or you don't.
If you trust them there is no cause for concern.
If you don't trust them why are you still here?

vbulletin is one of the systems where pm's are accessable. there are others where this facility is not available.

I just think it sholud be widely publicised along with forum rules etc as the phrase Private message does have the connotation of being private.

I'll stick around here for a while longer...;)

Tommy T

Saruman wrote: »

Why the need? anyone with any intelligence would know that they obviously have the ability.... im not sure that by default there is an admin button in vBulletin to read PM's... probably not.. but they would obviously have the ability to access the database and maybe make a "read tommyT's PM's" button if they wanted to.

Even if they were to put it in a disclaimer, who would read it? Did you read anything like that when signing up to eircom or gmail or whoever provides your email? Doubt it.

I'd not be so arrogant as to guage someones intelligence on the matter of knowing that private messages can be accessed or not...

Gordon

Tommy T wrote: »

vbulletin is one of the systems where pm's are accessable. there are others where this facility is not available.

Not true if an administrator has access to the database. If this is the case ANY system has ANY piece of information in the database open to the administrator.

seamus

Afaik, VBulletin doesn't provide an interface for admins to easily run through people's PMs. There are hacks you can add in which allow you to browse and search them. The data would otherwise need to be extracted through SQL queries. Not a daunting task, but not worth the effort for what would be thousands of boring messages.

That they can do this is no secret. When you put any information on any website, the owners and administrators can see every piece of information you put up, even if you think it's "private". They own it and are responsible for it, so they have that right.

When you send an email in work, the Email admins can see it and read it if they have teh will.

However, there are certain legal aspects to privacy and where an expectation of privacy is created, the data owner would need to inform you that they are going in to take a look, or otherwise remove the expectation by telling you that they will take a look.

As Gordon says, from meeting and talking to the Admins, I'd be satisfied that they are ethically sound enough to not go prying into people's PMs. Plus the boredom factor I outline above. Ever read someone else's emails? Yawn.

Puteq

Hagar wrote: »

On every system there is always at least one person with total access.
You either trust them or you don't.
If you trust them there is no cause for concern.
If you don't trust them why are you still here?

Agreed - Hagar is absolutely correct and this situation is inevitable. The term 'private message' just means private from other average members, but when you think about it it is inevitable that anything you type on any site anywhere on the internet (including mail, forums, secret messages on dating sites etc) is visible to someone.

I for one feel secure mainly thanks to the principle of 'security through obscurity' - there is so much crap being typed out there that admins definitely have better things to do than read other peoples messages. Unless you draw attention to your messages by asking who can read them, that makes it seem like you have something interesting to say in your PMs ;-)

Saruman

Tommy T wrote: »

I'd not be so arrogant as to guage someones intelligence on the matter of knowing that private messages can be accessed or not...

Is this Tommy Tiernan? This is all a big joke right?

Everything you type on the internet is logged and saved somewhere for someone to read..
Do you expect google to pop up a message reminding you they can read what you are searching for and provide you with google ads related to it? Keep the info including your IP address etc for years and so on?

Boston

The only thing the admins don't know is your password as that is hashed/.

6th

Boston wrote: »

The only thing the admins don't know is your password as that is hashed/.

Exactly, I've been playing with my version of vBulletin recently and its all there to play with.

Crumble Froo

hmmph, i wish i could believe that... had a thread on another board that was just... one of hte most meaningful things in my life (honestly, i kid you not) and the entire board got deleted.:( )

though did discover on a private forum recently that admin could read our PMs.

have been infinitely more cautious since... particularly as that admin was a bit of a dick, and several people had at least contemplated leaving the baord cos he was a bit of a know it all argumentative bastard...

honestly, nothing to do with IQ, but i, and several people on the private forum i was on, thought that private PMs were just that: private. i wouldn't insult somebody's intelligence for not knowing it, but im sure anyone who's read this thread now, will be more aware of this in future.

Tommy T

seamus wrote: »

where an expectation of privacy is created, the data owner would need to inform you that they are going in to take a look, or otherwise remove the expectation by telling you that they will take a look.

Thats my point in a nutshell. Not just on this forum but every vbulletin forum in my view...

Tommy T

narco wrote: »

i wouldn't insult somebody's intelligence for not knowing it, but im sure anyone who's read this thread now, will be more aware of this in future.

Exactly...

seamus

Tommy T wrote: »

Thats my point in a nutshell. Not just on this forum but every vbulletin forum in my view...

The guy who wrote the hack for vBulletin was actually very responsible and said that a requirement of getting the hack was an agreement from the board owner that they would notify all users that they can see their PMs.

I just checked the vB demo and the ability to see PMs through vBulletin doesn't come by default. So to a certain degree the expectation of privacy is there. But that doesn't mean nobody *can* see your messages, just that they won't. Think of it in terms of posting a letter. Even with the envelope sealed, you don't think for a second that your message is private and can't be read, however you expect that your message won't be read.

To think that a PM is 100% private and secure is ignorance. To expect that it won't be read is normal.

Tommy T

seamus wrote: »

To think that a PM is 100% private and secure is ignorance. To expect that it won't be read is normal.

Thats a giood way of putting it to those who are ITK(In the know). However there are many people who aren't 'up with' the technical ins and outs of messageboards who see a private message capability as being secure.

A simple message in the rules clarifying that its not 100% secure weould be a help...

biko

And while we're at it, add info on Echelon and NSA/MI6 signal tracking.

Spilly

can the mods read your ip number

Hagar

No, only smods and higher life forms.

Ruu_Old

Only Super Mods (Smods) and Administrators (Admin) can but they don't normally unless a particular user is causing trouble and they are trying to determine if the said user has been on the site before, etc.

Sully

Tommy T wrote: »

As I thought. I've no reason not to trust the admins here. I just think it should be made public their ability to access 'Private Messages'...

While I see where your coming from, the fact is vBulletin and its competitor Invision Power Board amongst many many others do not encrypt PMs in the database. Neither of the forum scripts have a facility by default to check PMs however anybody with a bit of technical know-how and access to the database can search and find PMs.

This applies to the majority of forums and as far as I am aware none of them have this disclaimer. Its just a fact of life, as is everything you do on the Internet is logged somewhere anyway. When you visit any website, your IP is tracked on that site and your movements recorded. Its just a fact of life, and nobody puts up a disclaimer stating the facts.

While im sure there are "hacks" to add the ability to the administration section, that is when I believe a disclaimer should be set. To warn people they have such a facility, and they may/may not use it.

Tommy T wrote: »

vbulletin is one of the systems where pm's are accessable. there are others where this facility is not available.

Can you name the others? I wasn't aware of any decent forum software. Invision Power Board, vBulletin, phpBB all have the ability to fish through the database and see PMs if they want to.

I just think it sholud be widely publicised along with forum rules etc as the phrase Private message does have the connotation of being private.

I wouldn't bother. Id take your issue higher up the scale and bring the issue of privacy up with the developers of the board.

AckwelFoley

They can!!!?!?!?!?!!?!

Ok dorry DeVORE.. DIDNT MEAN WHAT I SAID ABOUT YER MA..

Hagar.. i didnt really try to date raper yer sister..

Mellor.. ooops.. Builders arse was ment as a compliment..

Dudess.. sorry.. i dont think that you .. eeek ..

Terry.. i was just trying to make a point about the performance not the size..

Maxamillion & Spankeh .. noooes.. i dont think you do.. with .. erm ..eah

Bond - 007.. he c'ommon.. .. please twas a joke..

Karoma.. Nazi was only ment as in "hey hes very efficent.. at teh modding"

Gordon.. i meant it. Sorry.

Rabies.. i meant "viral" as in addictively cool.

yes i know admin can read pm's.. well at least in the forum i mod at.. but if you knew how many pm's are sent every day it would be almost impossible to "stumble" on a pm you send.. you would need to be a complete screw up on the boards to get the attention needed for them to even care whats said in your pm's

yoyo

I suppose if you went through the forum database you'd find them That would be quite allot of mesages to be trawling through lol, dont think forum softwares even allow admins access members private messages, unless of couse the board is modded to do it as people suggested...

Nick