So, after 30 years of armed insurgency...

conor2007

like it or not


it is occupied - troops are out - still occupied

AckwelFoley

Its good that Sinn Fein finally can accept that they are subjects of her royal Majesty.

Peace in Ireland and our fellow neighbours in the UK up North.

[/trolling]

Yea, well i think the Sinn Fein realise that they needed to get that signed if they wanted to get in to power and keep the protectants happy.

Tommy T

conor2007 wrote: »

by who

pira ?
cira ?
ira ?
some randomers who got a bit hot headed ?

as i said which is all going off topic - but anyway -

have any loyalist group disbanded? - why not ? crime and attacking catholics like the sixties/seventies onwards (and by there mere presence and claim to the land)

You're grossly ill-informed dude. None of your posts have any bearing to the reality of the situation...

Tommy T

FruitLover wrote: »

Jesus, are people still actually using the word 'occupation' in this context? :rolleyes:

I wonder how many Northern Irish residents consider their country to be host to a 'foreign occupation'..

I'm not hung up on the word but I'm damn sure Provo Republicans are spoonfed it from birth...

RedPlanet

Well Tommy T, you keep moving the goal posts so it's hard to know what exactly you're looking for.
But perhaps you can tell us all why there is a Equality Commission for Northern Ireland setup after the GFA?
If Catholics (and others) weren't discriminated against by the powers that be, than there surely would be no reason to establish things like that.

Tommy T

RedPlanet wrote: »

Well Tommy T, you keep moving the goal posts so it's hard to know what exactly you're looking for.
But perhaps you can tell us all why there is a Equality Commission for Northern Ireland setup after the GFA?
If Catholics (and others) weren't discriminated against by the powers that be, than there surely would be no reason to establish things like that.

Today, 17th January 2008. Can you give one example of how Catholics as a cohort are descriminated against in the 6 counties. Goalposts firmly in the ground...

Erin Go Brath

Tommy T wrote: »

The Provisional Movement signed an agreement not only accepting but agreeing to administer British rule on the island of Ireland on Good friday 1998.

Personally, as a Republican(Fianna Fail) myself, I was delighted to see that day come after so much bloodshed and mayhem for all concerned in the conflict.

But my question is how do those who supported the Provisionals(SF/IRA) throughout the last 30 years reconcile their struggle to end foreign occupation and in the end signing an agreement copperfastening that same occupation...?

First up its a joke to call FF 'The Republican Party'. They've done f*ck all to try bring about reunification of the country, bar every so often making noises about running candidates in the Six to keep the Republican element within it satisfied that they're going to endeavour to bring back the 4th Green Field. It never happens though! :rolleyes:

The GFA itself, has it good points and bad. The Unionist veto is my major beef with it. However it exists as a compromise by both sides, so working within it to achieve a UI is the best option.

The IRA's actions in the past few decades has been necessary. If they hadn't took the fight to the Brits and their proxy terror gangs in the North then discrimination, gerrymandering etc would probably be as common in 2008as it was in 1968.

Now that the armed struggle is at an end Republicanism is sustaning itself on the hope that a UI will be achieved through peaceful political means within the existing framework, and a changing demographic with Catholics becoming a majority by 2021 approx.

McDaid--1916

Tommy T wrote: »

Today, 17th January 2008. Can you give one example of how Catholics as a cohort are descriminated against in the 6 counties. Goalposts firmly in the ground...

Why today?..
Alot has changed since the war.

Back then the arguements were that catholics were discriminated because of there religion. This was a move by loyalists to try and make this into a religious war which, inturn justifies there sectarian killings. The war was of course a polictical struggle.

conor2007

the reality is that the british should never have been there

sure they ar allowed - once they accept its irish - ireland - the whole island

thats the biggest point

McDaid--1916

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

First up its a joke to call FF 'The Republican Party'. They've done f*ck all to try bring about reunification of the country, bar every so often making noises about running candidates in the Six to keep the Republican element within it satisfied that they're going to endeavour to bring back the 4th Green Field. It never happens though! :rolleyes:

very true

conor2007

when the free state was established

the seanad was established - for protestants
when a catholic got elected to the british government he was allowed to die

democracy - discrimination

conor2007

http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/

i think that shows where and how sinn fein is growing and where it will be in a few years

sdlp and sf compared to dup uup = not that far off each other

Mick86

conor2007 wrote: »

dev took the oath = only to dismantle the treaty

Pity he didn't think of that around the end of 1921.

conor2007 wrote: »

ff - eammon o cuiv - basicially saying ireland would be better in the commwealth

Mr Irish Road Signs. :rolleyes:

conor2007 wrote: »

if the people of the north vote to join a united ireland - it happens

What about ifthe people of the south say they don't want them?

conor2007 wrote: »

logical people see that in 5-10 or however soon down the line - catholics will be a majority in the north

therefore will vote for a united ireland

That's a fair old assumption there. You presume there are no Catholic who are closet Loyalists.

conor2007

there is loyalist catholics - not a huge lot

irish road signs - we are in ireland - duh

dev was not soley responsible for ''civil'' war

the south not wanting them? the dail will decide that - hhm name me one party that would vote against it?

sf - duh , ff - republican appaerently , fg - would anyway but cant afford to loose support

Fratton Fred

conor2007 wrote: »

just look at the state of the norths economy
''raped and pillaged'' and ''left for dead'' after its use as shipbuilding burned out like the coal industry
yes its democratic as in it votes - but it has done a lot of wrong

no blacks/dogs/irish ?

taig etc etc - paisley attacking the pope

You need to take another look at their economy, it is arguably in a better state than the south's.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

The IRA's actions in the past few decades has been necessary. If they hadn't took the fight to the Brits and their proxy terror gangs in the North then discrimination, gerrymandering etc would probably be as common in 2008as it was in 1968.

Does that justify indescriminate bombing of civilians? I think it is fair to say that action had to be taken, but I don't see how blowing up a Birmingham pub protects catholics in Belfast.

conor2007 wrote: »

the reality is that the british should never have been there

sure they ar allowed - once they accept its irish - ireland - the whole island

thats the biggest point

No, the reality is that the British are there and as they have been there longer than the concept of an Irish country has been in place. 800 years ago, the English has as much right to Ulster as the Kings of Leinster did and in reality, the English only did what Brian Boru was trying to do.

conor2007 wrote: »

when the free state was established

the seanad was established - for protestants
when a catholic got elected to the british government he was allowed to die

democracy - discrimination

In effect he commited suicide.

Mick86

Morlar wrote: »

I think you are discounting how bad things were, or would have continued to be, for catholics & nationalists had the provisionals not been active throughout the 70's/80's.

You are discounting how many Catholics were murdered by the IRA in the same period. Eventually the Civil Rights Movement would have embarrassed the British government into intervening in the North. Nobody in his right mind could claim that the IRA improved matters for anybody.

conor2007 wrote: »

dissedents
just by the by

The definition of a Dissident Republican is one who got caught.

conor2007 wrote: »

how many loyalists groups have disarmed??????????

none

Loyalists generally concentrate on killing each other so that should bring about the famous Catholic majority a bit quicker.:D

Mick86

conor2007 wrote: »

irish road signs - we are in ireland - duh

Where everybody speaks English duh.

conor2007 wrote: »

dev was not soley responsible for ''civil'' war

He was in my humble opinion.

conor2007 wrote: »

the south not wanting them? the dail will decide that - hhm name me one party that would vote against it?

No the people of the south will decide that. And the decision will be made for economic reasons not for any sentimental attachment to an outdated political dogma.

Morlar

Mick86 wrote: »

Eventually the Civil Rights Movement would have embarrassed the British government into intervening in the North.

The british government did intervene in the north. If your trying to say that the lot of catholics would have improved 'with patience' then your going to have a hard time proving that as its a pure hypothetical. Especially considering the not-exactly-breakneck pace of reforms that had taken place on the part of the loyalist majority toward the nationalist minority since the founding of the statelet.

AckwelFoley

Now that the armed struggle is at an end Republicanism is sustaning itself on the hope that a UI will be achieved through peaceful political means within the existing framework, and a changing demographic with Catholics becoming a majority by 2021 approx

lol, it just shows how little you understnd the political sensativities in the north.

Even if the catholics out numbered the protestants by 3-1, the protestant community would not accept it, nor could you expect them to.

This brain dead of EIRE 32 attitude needs to be, and is forgotten among the vast majority of Irish ppl.

Why do we need a UI? Is some kraut in brussles that will be pullings our strings more as time goes by.

conor2007

no they have no claim on the north
the kings of leinster? - pff - i see you are up on irish history

i speak irish - so you show your close mindedness there

dev wasnt soley responsible - im all for opinion - but your wrong there

dissident is dissident - not one that got caught

innocents ? michael stone?

conor2007

brussels - not if i have my say they wont

united ireland - it has always been an island - still is - united
in fighting - never really centralised power - tara could have been who knows

but it still was eire - bound by language-culture- forget religion - altho is was bound by that

AckwelFoley

Conor, i really dont know what to say, you are far out there like Pluto..

I think you need to come back down to reality.

.. no offence

Mick86

conor2007 wrote: »

i speak irish - so you show your close mindedness there

You also speak English so why do you need Irish roadsigns. Polish or Chinese roadsigns would be more useful actually.

Mick86

snyper wrote: »

Conor, i really dont know what to say, you are far out there like Pluto..

I think you need to come back down to reality.

.. no offence

Ah leave him alone. He's great crack.

AckwelFoley

Mick86 wrote: »

Ah leave him alone. He's great crack.

lmao

conor2007

i speak irish and need irish road signs because it is my language

no matter what ways ye twist it

ireland is an island - surrounded by the irish sea
the most northerly and the most southernly point are in the republic and like it or not it will be ''united''

Mick86

I'd loke to propose a vote of thanks to Tommy T. I haven't laughed so much since Tuesday's episodes of 3rd Rock from the Sun. The T doesn't stand for Tiernan does it?:D

RedPlanet

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Does that justify indescriminate bombing of civilians? I think it is fair to say that action had to be taken, but I don't see how blowing up a Birmingham pub protects catholics in Belfast.

I don't think "protecting catholics in Belfast" was the reason the IRA blew up commercial and political targets in Britain.
I think it was more like "lets bring the war to mainland Britiain" and see how much they like it when the murders are occuring in their own streets.

Mick86

conor2007 wrote: »

ireland is an island - surrounded by the irish sea

The Irish Sea is only along the east coast. The rest of the place is bounded by the Atlantic Ocean.

conor2007

well said

if you find this amusing - go outside and run in a circle im sure you will find it musing


you seem like that sorta person