End Irish anthem at GAA matches, demands DUP minister

PDN

kreuzberger wrote: »

I suspect youve just made this up . Theres a close affinity between unionists north of the border and what they percieve as their brethren in Donegal , Cavan and Monaghan . Orange lodges from those counties regularly participate in northern Orange events and vice versa . I fail to see any reason why your numerous GAA following unonist colleagues would discriminate against these particular ulster counties . This does not strike me as a credible post

I corrected you on another thread where you posted a wildly inaccurate and unhistorical claim. Is this payback time by accusing me of lying. :rolleyes:

I grew up in Protestant East Belfast. I still have friends and relatives who vote Unionist and watch GAA on TV. They couldn't give a toss about Orange Lodges (who they see as throwbacks in fancy dress) and they see Monaghan etc as a foreign country.

If Northern Prods love Monaghan so much then why was it bombed?

FTA69

Because they were trying to blow up the Sinn Féin office.

McArmalite

BoatMad wrote: »

To get back to the simple issue

As a GAA supporter and a citizen of the ROI, I would support a generosity of spirit approach. i actually have met Edwin Poots and hes an agreeable chap.

As part of the generosity of spirit approach I think we should remove nationalistic symbols from sporting events completely. Why the neccessity to proclaim the republic at county GAA matches. I certainly dont see the need.( no more then i see the need to do it at discos and cinemas!)

We have to get away from a zero sum game approach, you do this an i'll do that. I am a citizen of the second wealthist nation in the EU, proud and confident, I was born after a histiorical conflict that divided this island and I have not been affected by it. I want to be generous to our neighbours and dont expect specifically something in return for every gesture. I dont care what happened in Cork in some time past or elsewhere for that matter. its in the past its history, to be looked up in books and pondered upon by acedemics

Come on, lets leave the "count the dead approach" behind, most people here ( possibly everyone here) was not around for the "troubles". I respect the pain of everybody in NI, but again trawling over the past is a complete waste of time, nor are arguments based on "them and us " etc

if for example removing the athem and the tricolour at matches would encourage more unionists to play then great lets do it. Surely its the game that is important, not its symbolic value, and dont give me the GAA cultural bulwark thing, please, this is 2008 not 1916. Do we ( ROI citizens) really need to reemphasie our identify ( with flags and symbols) in this way, I certainly dont. The rugby guys handled the situation without me or people like me feeling the team isnt irish ( in the sense of being from the island)

It really depresses me when people rant on about "irish culture" as if it was some precious unchanging monument. We live in a integrated modern environment, one that changes over time, the notion of culture and cultural identify also changes over time. We actually cant "abandon" our culture, its like saying you can "abandon" your skin. It comes with us, is defined by what we do today, changes, mutates.

Look at the great strides that have been achieved in Northern Ireland, we need to be forthcoming and make gestures ( great and small) not start counting gains and losses

" As part of the generosity of spirit approach I think we should remove nationalistic symbols from sporting events completely. ". Sure why not " as part of the generosity of spirit approach I think we should remove " having 15 players on a Gaelic team to 11, no points, the offside rule, goals the same dimensions as soccer etc, etc. and maybe a 'kick the pope sons of king billy' play god save the queen before, at half time and at the end of a match. And ofcourse hurling and handball would have to be banned entirely. And if the GAA don't comply, then the governement could impliement a Section 31 banning order on broadcasting Gaelic games.

" Look at the great strides that have been achieved in Northern Ireland, " The 'great strides' were taken because Blair told the unionists accept the GFA or else he'd press on without them, ( Tony didn't want any more Bishopgates etc,) the lovely unionists didn't want the RUC cap abdge replaced FFS. Correct me if I'm wrong, the GFA went thru in the six counties due to the combination of Nationalist and unionist yes votes, but if you take unionist voters alone, more unionists voted against it than for it. So much for nationalists " need to be forthcoming and make gestures ( great and small) ".

kreuzberger wrote: »

then bring it up at your local club meeting and have them bring the issue before congress in a properly structured motion . You obviously feel quite strongly on the subject so i suggest you persue it . Let us know how you got on .

if you expect GAA supporters to adopt that dreadful half witted pub dirge youve another thing coming . But like i said bring it up at your club meeting and have them bring it before congress as a motion . And dont forget to tell us how you got on .

me too

Agree 100%, despite the largest propaganda campaign to water down national pride in the interests of so called 'reconciliation' and 'embracing all traditions' etc, the vast majority of GAA members instinctive dissmissal of West britishism and sleevenism is still alive and well - Thank God.

McArmalite

PDN wrote: »

I corrected you on another thread where you posted a wildly inaccurate and unhistorical claim. Is this payback time by accusing me of lying. :rolleyes:

I grew up in Protestant East Belfast. I still have friends and relatives who vote Unionist and watch GAA on TV. They couldn't give a toss about Orange Lodges (who they see as throwbacks in fancy dress) and they see Monaghan etc as a foreign country.

If Northern Prods love Monaghan so much then why was it bombed?

Because the real hand behind the bombings, brit intelligence/ruc special branch etc deemed it to be expedient to do so. And if they Love Ulster so much, how come they love only 2/3's of it.

PDN

McArmalite wrote: »

Because the real hand behind the bombings, brit intelligence/ruc special branch etc deemed it to be expedient to do so. And if they Love Ulster so much, how come they love only 2/3's of it.

Because Northern Prods, being none too smart, tend to see Ulster as a 6 county entity. For example everyone in East Belfast (except the Short Strand) call this flag "the Ulster Flag":

It wasn't until I moved south of the border that I discovered that what they were referring to was actually the Northern Ireland flag, and that this was the (9 county) Ulster flag:

kreuzberger

PDN wrote: »

I corrected you on another thread where you posted a wildly inaccurate and unhistorical claim. Is this payback time by accusing me of lying. :rolleyes:

I grew up in Protestant East Belfast. I still have friends and relatives who vote Unionist and watch GAA on TV. They couldn't give a toss about Orange Lodges (who they see as throwbacks in fancy dress) and they see Monaghan etc as a foreign country.

If Northern Prods love Monaghan so much then why was it bombed?

according to an RUC officer who who took part in a number of sectarian kiilings carried out by that group , from Monaghan himself incidentally , it was bombed in order to divert garda resources from the main dublin to belfast road in order to give the bombers a free run home. On the instructions of British army intelligence .
your relatives appear very parochial . Even the worst of UVF killer gangs regarded a Monaghan man as a fellow Ulster prod . And he wasnt the only one .

Red Hand

I have a simple solution. Since Kerry dominates gaelic football and no other county will ever get close enough to threaten the number of All Irelands we hold in my lifetime...do away with all anthems. If they want to play something, they can play The Rose of Tralee, Brosna Town, or some other song set in Kerry.:)

The other gaelic sports may play those songs in homage to Kerry's Gaelic Football prowness before they play their games if they want to.

BoatMad

" As part of the generosity of spirit approach I think we should remove nationalistic symbols from sporting events completely. ". Sure why not " as part of the generosity of spirit approach I think we should remove " having 15 players on a Gaelic team to 11, no points, the offside rule, goals the same dimensions as soccer etc, etc. and maybe a 'kick the pope sons of king billy' play ......blah , bul^&3it ...

Sure illustrate your viewport by taking an extreme view, heard it all before. I have no need to wrap a sporting body ( or myself) up in the tricolour thats all to prove i'm irish

" Look at the great strides that have been achieved in Northern Ireland, " The 'great strides' were taken because Blair told the unionists accept the blah .... usual restatement of the typical partisan nonsene...etcs...blah blah ) ".

Rather then give us propaganda, your handle is enough of that, It is a great stride irrespective of who agreed to what and we should be able to make some contributions to it down here, by facilitating others

Originally Posted by kreuzberger
then bring it up at your local club meeting and have them bring the issue before congress in a properly structured motion . You obviously feel quite strongly on the subject so i suggest you persue it . Let us know how you got on .

Sure we all know teh reaction, most political change like the rugby in croker was brought about by pressure from outside teh GAA, These types if initives would never get a hearing from within IMHO. The key to chnage in the GAA is to steadly turn up the heat and bring then into the 21st centrury

the vast majority of GAA members instinctive dissmissal of West britishism and sleevenism is still alive and well - Thank God.

in your opinion of course, name calling is always a good bet when you dont have anything constructive to say, usually followed by violence

kreuzberger

BoatMad wrote: »

Sure we all know teh reaction, most political change like the rugby in croker was brought about by pressure from outside teh GAA, These types if initives would never get a hearing from within IMHO. The key to chnage in the GAA is to steadly turn up the heat and bring then into the 21st centrury

you regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects as brining people into the 21st century ?

what next on your programme of modernism ? witchburnings and court jesters ? leeches to treat ailments ?

while deriding the only sporting organisation in Ireland with a stadium worthy of the 21 st century . Rugby and soccer must be running about the middle ages somewhere , using a goats head instead of a ball .

Erin Go Brath

kreuzberger wrote: »

you regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects as brining people into the 21st century ?

what next on your programme of modernism ? witchburnings and court jesters ? leeches to treat ailments ?

while deriding the only sporting organisation in Ireland with a stadium worthy of the 21 st century . Rugby and soccer must be running about the middle ages somewhere , using a goats head instead of a ball .

Classic! :D:D:D:D:D:D

McArmalite

Danno wrote: »

You would swear that we (in our past) invaded the North and colonised it with the republicans that live there now. Piff.

These Unionists have got to realise that they are descendants of colonists and have got to live with it - although it is not their fault, it certainly isn't ours.

Welcome to Ireland. This is our culture, don't like it? Buzz off then.

Irish people by their VAST majority, when they emigrated in the past respected the laws and cultures of the host nation and worked very hard in building those countries. Yes, we did bring our culture with us and blended in well in other nations too - hence our well respect that is widely given to us by those other states.

Spot on their Danno, a 100%. One of the best posts in a long time. Likewise you have people coming from many countries in Ireland today, they respect the culture and way of life here and do more than many Irish to contribute to the hard work done in this country. Their is a brilliant multi cultural festival in Dun Laoighre in the summer, could you imagine asking some Polish or Czech or Mexican musicians and dancers do they find street signs in Irish offencive ? Is the playing of anthem wrong before a GAA match ? To say that they would undoubtably find it the most bizarre questions they were ever asked is an understatement.

McArmalite

kreuzberger wrote: »

you regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects as brining people into the 21st century ?

what next on your programme of modernism ? witchburnings and court jesters ? leeches to treat ailments ?

while deriding the only sporting organisation in Ireland with a stadium worthy of the 21 st century . Rugby and soccer must be running about the middle ages somewhere , using a goats head instead of a ball .

:D:D .Brillant. Sounds like the rugby guys from Blackrock College, Clonqowes etc are getting a bashing on this one :D:D

BoatMad

you regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects as brining people into the 21st century ?

Never said anything of teh sort, good debating tactic ( though a little obvious) , put words in the mouth of your opponent

I,m not a fan of any nationhood symbols being displayed at sporting events. ( appealing to any form of supernaturel being). But the topic isnt discussing anthems per say, it was a specific context

what next on your programme of modernism ? witchburnings and court jesters ? leeches to treat ailments ?

I'm sorry whats are you rabbeting on about , stay on topic ( dont stop taking the tablets, see what happens when you do)

while deriding the only sporting organisation in Ireland with a stadium worthy of the 21 st century . Rugby and soccer must be running about the middle ages somewhere , using a goats head instead of a ball

I think you find one of thoses orgs is building a fine new stadium, as for soccer, dont get me started, The FAI are a bunch of muppets, but thats another story.....

Brillant. Sounds like the rugby guys from Blackrock College, Clonqowes etc are getting a bashing on this one

I certainly dont play nor never played rugby nor am I from dublin , nor attended the above schools. I did play under 16 intercounty hurling. ( A long time ago). I went to a small rural national school and the christian brothers secondary school, SO i suspect I dont think I fit your citerion.

Its funny how it always suits a "bar republican" type s to preceive that opposition somehow isnt Irish, or to paint them in that way , I'm just as irish as any citizen and proud of it.

I'll say it again , I'm in favour of positive gestures in cemeting the GFA , etc. and I think teh bar republicans in ireland need to shut up and let teh ordinary decent people have a say. God knows were have heard enough from loud mouthed "Defenders of the first Dail", over the years.


Looks like the "bar republicians" & Defenders of teh First Dail !!!! are getting wiped on this one

kreuzberger

ill just point out to you that Im an habitual non drinker save for st patricks day and my summer vacation . Im most certainly not a "bar republican"

Never said anything of teh sort, good debating tactic ( though a little obvious) , put words in the mouth of your opponent

I didnt put any words in your mouth . I clarified your position by breaking it down into its constituent parts .
A country whose citizens were forced to be subjects to that crown against their will and have a foreign monarchical national anthem and head of state took a civilised and progressive step to attempt to consign that medieval nonsense to the dustbin of history , the GAA itself playing its part in that progressive and moderninising step forward . In that they were only partly successful thanks to a foreign states insistence on retaining its presence , influence and trappings upon this island and carving upour national territory in their own interests . Demanding Irish TDs took an oath of allegiance not to the Irish people but the institution of the British crown , sparking disastrous division on this island . Mrs windsor still displays our national emblem the harp on her regal court of arms , proclaiming it as part of her realm .
Therefore the spectacle of Irish citizens in the middle of a symbolic stadium which is central to our national consciousness , being proud to stand to attention to that particular national anthem whilst colonialism remains in our country is a retrograde step , not a progressive one . Its not mature , its backward .
As you admit yourself the pressures to facilitate the acceptance of the trappings of foreign monarchism and colonialism on this island come from without the GAA . They are demanded by those who seek to restore the trappings and acceptance of the old order which a struggle for democracy accross the island put on the back foot . Now they are more confident and strident in their demands and will continue to persue them , as you admit yourself and encourage . That isnt modernism , its trying to remove the democratic spanner of national sovereignty that was thrown into the imperialist machine in Ireland . Its to retrospectively endors the previous backwardness and lack of self esteem that characterised Irish society in the 19th and early 20th century and promote that backwardness as positive and progressive .

I think you find one of thoses orgs is building a fine new stadium, as for soccer, dont get me started, The FAI are a bunch of muppets, but thats another story.....

only now after the GAA led the way in modernism and forward planning ? Lansdowne road was regulalry packed to full capacity for years while the only decently run sporting organisation in the country were planning and building for the future . One is only less muppet like than the other .

I'll say it again , I'm in favour of positive gestures in cemeting the GFA , etc. and I think teh bar republicans in ireland need to shut up and let teh ordinary decent people have a say.

I doubt that very much . according to your previous post when challenged to bring it up at your local GAA club and persue it in a democratic fashion amongst the GAA grass roots and congress

Sure we all know teh reaction, most political change like the rugby in croker was brought about by pressure from outside teh GAA, These types if initives would never get a hearing from within IMHO. The key to chnage in the GAA is to steadly turn up the heat and bring then into the 21st centrury

The ordinary plain decent people who are the bedrock of the GAA wouldnt agree with you and you know it . So you believe they must be co-erced by self appointed media pundits instead . A powerful and vocal minority must browbeat and misrepresent the majority until they accede to the powerful minoritys demands .

Fratton Fred

kreuzberger wrote: »

ill just point out to you that Im an habitual non drinker save for st patricks day and my summer vacation . Im most certainly not a "bar republican"



I didnt put any words in your mouth . I clarified your position by breaking it down into its constituent parts .
A country whose citizens were forced to be subjects to that crown against their will and have a foreign monarchical national anthem and head of state took a civilised and progressive step to attempt to consign that medieval nonsense to the dustbin of history , the GAA itself playing its part in that progressive and moderninising step forward . In that they were only partly successful thanks to a foreign states insistence on retaining its presence , influence and trappings upon this island and carving upour national territory in their own interests . Demanding Irish TDs took an oath of allegiance not to the Irish people but the institution of the British crown , sparking disastrous division on this island . Mrs windsor still displays our national emblem the harp on her regal court of arms , proclaiming it as part of her realm .
Therefore the spectacle of Irish citizens in the middle of a symbolic stadium which is central to our national consciousness , being proud to stand to attention to that particular national anthem whilst colonialism remains in our country is a retrograde step , not a progressive one . Its not mature , its backward .
As you admit yourself the pressures to facilitate the acceptance of the trappings of foreign monarchism and colonialism on this island come from without the GAA . They are demanded by those who seek to restore the trappings and acceptance of the old order which a struggle for democracy accross the island put on the back foot . Now they are more confident and strident in their demands and will continue to persue them , as you admit yourself and encourage . That isnt modernism , its trying to remove the democratic spanner of national sovereignty that was thrown into the imperialist machine in Ireland . Its to retrospectively endors the previous backwardness and lack of self esteem that characterised Irish society in the 19th and early 20th century and promote that backwardness as positive and progressive .



only now after the GAA led the way in modernism and forward planning ? Lansdowne road was regulalry packed to full capacity for years while the only decently run sporting organisation in the country were planning and building for the future . One is only less muppet like than the other .




I doubt that very much . according to your previous post when challenged to bring it up at your local GAA club and persue it in a democratic fashion amongst the GAA grass roots and congress

Sure we all know teh reaction, most political change like the rugby in croker was brought about by pressure from outside teh GAA, These types if initives would never get a hearing from within IMHO. The key to chnage in the GAA is to steadly turn up the heat and bring then into the 21st centrury

The ordinary plain decent people who are the bedrock of the GAA wouldnt agree with you and you know it . So you believe they must be co-erced by self appointed media pundits instead . A powerful and vocal minority must browbeat and misrepresent the majority until they accede to the powerful minoritys demands .

fine upstanding and resolute reasons to sing the anthem, but also a good reason why the twain may never meet.

McArmalite

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

I have a simple solution. Since Kerry dominates gaelic football and no other county will ever get close enough to threaten the number of All Irelands we hold in my lifetime...do away with all anthems. If they want to play something, they can play The Rose of Tralee, Brosna Town, or some other song set in Kerry.:)

The other gaelic sports may play those songs in homage to Kerry's Gaelic Football prowness before they play their games if they want to.

Don't think the Cats would agree on that one. Maybe you could settle it by having a match between Kerry and Kilkenny with one half Gaelic, the other hurley and the highest combination of scores from both halfs decide the winner ?? My money would be on the Rose Of Mooncoin to become the anthem

Pathfinder

suimhneas wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheyeyidcwql/

what do you all reckon on this? seriously will end up like the rugby where we nearly have a full blown concert before a match. Hands off the GAA

If the GAA don't like the suggestions of the DUP maybe they should stop taking money off the northern Irish /British taxpayer, as they do, the DUP has a right to make suggestions.

..................Thats the bottom line.

Pathfinder

PDN wrote: »

I corrected you on another thread where you posted a wildly inaccurate and unhistorical claim. Is this payback time by accusing me of lying. :rolleyes:

I grew up in Protestant East Belfast. I still have friends and relatives who vote Unionist and watch GAA on TV. They couldn't give a toss about Orange Lodges (who they see as throwbacks in fancy dress) and they see Monaghan etc as a foreign country.

If Northern Prods love Monaghan so much then why was it bombed?

As a diversion,so the UVF unit who bombed Dublin could get back with no problems.

walrusgumble

Pathfinder wrote: »

If the GAA don't like the suggestions of the DUP maybe they should stop taking money off the northern Irish /British taxpayer, as they do, the DUP has a right to make suggestions.

..................Thats the bottom line.

maybe because a large proportion of citizens subject to said countries/state are members/participants of the gaa. they should be assisted and recognised just as much as the leniancy once enjoyed by oraganisations like the orange order.

the irish football association has in the past done damn all to quell conflict amongst members particapting in their organisation (death threats to neill lennon and jimmy quinn, linfield fc, derry city fc, windsor park 1993 wcq,etc) didn't they still get money in the past?

Pathfinder

walrusgumble wrote: »

maybe because a large proportion of citizens subject to said countries/state are members/participants of the gaa. they should be assisted and recognised just as much as the leniancy once enjoyed by oraganisations like the orange order.

the irish football association has in the past done damn all to quell conflict amongst members particapting in their organisation (death threats to neill lennon and jimmy quinn, linfield fc, derry city fc, windsor park 1993 wcq,etc) didn't they still get money in the past?

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

McArmalite

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

The Orange Order, the british version of the Ku Klux Klan, is funded by the british govt and believe it or not the Irish govt also. It recieves money from the various bodies setup under the GFA for culture, art etc. I think they may extract money from NI tourist body also as well as Belfast city council etc. A few weeks ago an Irish govt body such as the arts council or something announced they were funding the OO for 100,000 euors or something under cultural development or whatever. The GAA has done enough to accomadate the unionists removing the ban on the Ruc/brits and opening up Croke Park ( you'll be surprised to read, both of which I agreed with. Think county grounds could also be used to facilitate other sports. E.g. when Leinster asked the GAA could they use Parnell Park while Donnybrook was refurbished they refuesd - disgraceful ).

" I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did. " In the late 60's a bus carrying opposition supporters to Derry for a match was burned out in a stupid act of vandalism by a tiny minority. For that Derry, based in the nationalist Brandywell, was banned totally form the NI league and refused entry despite many attempts again. Other clubs, in particuliar Linfeild, caused more trouble but ofcourse weren't banned as they were good loyal Protestants.

walrusgumble

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

sweet baby jesus.

there are more ways to suport a group like the orange order than just fiscal means. the authorities did not seem to stop these lads march down nationalist areas in the past dispite knowing full well the problems that it would cause, granted they have a right to association, and to march in their own areas, but to do so in a nationalist area is insensitive considering for many a year st patricks day parades in places like belfast and nationalist dominated derry city were not allowed. by comparison of orange order to the gaa is due to orange order is one thing that makes unionist who are members distinct, they have damn all other cultural significance.

the gaa has to do NOTHING. they seem to be ok in cities like manchester, glasgow and london. why should the gaa stop taking hands outs? these "handouts" are given because of the go,vernments role to recognise the nationalist minority in an unionist majority state also! why should money just be given to people of unionist pursuasion -equal rights for all. the northern nationalist take the gaa seriously, - it is one of main insitutes that allow them to express their nationality. moreover, it is positive, it, like soccer, tries to get kids off the street and stay healthy and active.

its the ifa not the nifa.the racist scheme? lol have you actually gone to a game up there? but ye fair enough, better late than never! the senanate cup has been great to bring both leagues together and a great night out.

last comment shows how much you know about domestic football. yes that it right,they (ifa) did not ban members from the ifa, you think that was ok? they bloody did nothing to stop the the ones (not all fans should be tarnished) or turn the blind eye to secterian crap. sure werent the board all unionists - where was the help for catholic clubs like belfast celtic or derry city fc. where was the public condemnation of incidents like neil lennon or jimmy quinn. i thought normally a group would like to ban its members to associate with questionable moral activities? as for the gaa, well you cant really compare them to the ifa in that context, but yes it is wrong but at least it did not harm anyone. (rep code is fai)

Erin Go Brath

Pathfinder wrote: »

................The Orange Order is not funded by the British govt via the taxpayer as the GAA is.

As the GAA is it must make Gaelic games more accommodating to unionists,.........................Otherwise stop taking the handouts.

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

The lads are right. Quite an astonishing amount of ignorance displayed in this post.

BTW Anyone can play GAA. What do you suggest they do fly the Union Jack and play GSTQ to try and bring more Unionists on board or something? :rolleyes:

McDaid--1916

Pathfinder wrote: »

The NIFA has run a kick out racism and sectarianism campaign for years.

...............I don't remember the NIFA banning a large section of the community as the GAA did.

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

Fratton Fred

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

McDaid--1916

Fratton Fred wrote: »

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

I wouldnt no, ive never been to one of there matches due to the very basis on which the team is made up and because of the out right sectarian bigotry.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

actually no, the union flag is a foreign flag which is flaunted everywhere on this island to remind people of the british presence. and oppression.
the song is our countrys national anthem. It is our god given right as irish citizens to have this song played at Irish native games.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

How about ban all the sectarian bullsh!t?

Fratton Fred

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

I wouldnt no, ive never been to one of there matches due to the very basis on which the team is made up and because of the out right sectarian bigotry.

neither have I, the standard is pretty poor as well. I did smile though at the highlights of one game, there were about 100 people there, 50 of whom had massive tricolours, the other 50 had 50 union flags.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

actually no, the union flag is a foreign flag which is flaunted everywhere on this island to remind people of the british presence. and oppression.
the song is our countrys national anthem. It is our god given right as irish citizens to have this song played at Irish native games.

some people, rightly or wrongly, don't see it as a foreign flag. It does include the cross of St. Patrick after all. Some people on this island see the Irish National Anthem as a foreign anthem. Orangemen see that they have a god given right to march etc.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

How about ban all the sectarian bullsh!t?

the first way to do that is acceptance that not all people see things the same way as you.

walrusgumble

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Was these campiagn successful?..i dont think so?
they still have that sectarian bigotry in the crowd with the union flags and the red white and blue hats. you see sir the GAA doesnt have crowds jumping about waving tricolours and shouting racial and sectarian slurs. Otherwise if it did it too would have racism and sectarianism campiagns.

moreover, the idea of crowd segeration is an alien concept in the gaa. same also applies with the eircom league matches bar the odd dublin derby, but nothing too bad that the cops cant sort out.

McDaid--1916

Fratton Fred wrote: »

neither have I, the standard is pretty poor as well. I did smile though at the highlights of one game, there were about 100 people there, 50 of whom had massive tricolours, the other 50 had 50 union flags.

Pretty Poor?...there ****e lol.
one side is as bad as the other, the bad elements i means.
People on both sides are in favour of peace, which is why Sinn Fein have chosen the more political role, instead of armed campaign...would u agree this is the right way?.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

some people, rightly or wrongly, don't see it as a foreign flag. It does include the cross of St. Patrick after all. Some people on this island see the Irish National Anthem as a foreign anthem. Orangemen see that they have a god given right to march etc.

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross. Some people wrongly see the Irish national anthem as a foreign song, after all they live on Ireland?..

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the first way to do that is acceptance that not all people see things the same way as you.

I dont expect everyone to have the same views as me, but it just that most loyalist/unionists dont see the benefit of a United Ireland and why would they, there hole purpose was to keep the union with the british empire. Who do u agree with?..a country wanting unity or the continuation of partition and tyranny?

McDaid--1916

walrusgumble wrote: »

moreover, the idea of crowd segeration is an alien concept in the gaa. same also applies with the eircom league matches bar the odd dublin derby, but nothing too bad that the cops cant sort out.

Like the police sorted the riots in dublin?...im sure the Gardi are capable of handling them sort of situations.:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Pretty Poor?...there ****e lol.
one side is as bad as the other, the bad elements i means.
People on both sides are in favour of peace, which is why Sinn Fein have chosen the more political role, instead of armed campaign...would u agree this is the right way?.

It is definately the right way. it is the only way they will secure main stream support in Britain and Ireland. Sinn Fein have some good politicians, they certainly had the ones that impressed me the most in the last Dail elections. The trouble is, they still have the stigma of the terror campaign to compete with.

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross. Some people wrongly see the Irish national anthem as a foreign song, after all they live on Ireland?

I'm guessing they do, otherwise the god awful Irelands Call would never have been written:D

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

I dont expect everyone to have the same views as me, but it just that most loyalist/unionists dont see the benefit of a United Ireland and why would they, there hole purpose was to keep the union with the british empire. Who do u agree with?..a country wanting unity or the continuation of partition and tyranny?

Being English I think I can take a fairly neutral view on it. It sounds corny, but I want what the people want. From my perspective, apart from the fact that it will be a great party when it happens (Which may actually be a bad idea, but I'll explain why later) I don't really have a view on it one way or the other.

walrusgumble

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Like the police sorted the riots in dublin?...im sure the Gardi are capable of handling them sort of situations.:rolleyes:

what rights in dublin? genuine question, football matches? rovers & bohs causals? (most supporters are sound)

- i support/from a team outside of the city so i only know what its like when we go away but i see the odd dublin derby match, are they really that bad? i know there was one big scrap after a dublin gaa match around the drumcondra area last summer, between themselves lol, but it is never as bad as the north or in england.

there are noramally riot squad when certain teams cough rovers cough when they come down the country. they fecked up our place two seasons and it was right in front of the tv cameras, yet pat scully had the cheek to say we were hostile (no cops present until the trouble kicked off - the away supporters team bus got smashed up - our club's fault for that night though by not getting cops down after refusing entry to on bus before game). then again we where no better when gufc came to town two weeks later - too many green street / football factory wanna bees around. either way you dont hear about outside of matches to you?

McDaid--1916

walrusgumble wrote: »

what rights in dublin? genuine question, football matches? rovers & bohs causals? (most supporters are sound)

- i support/from a team outside of the city so i only know what its like when we go away but i see the odd dublin derby match, are they really that bad? i know there was one big scrap after a dublin gaa match around the drumcondra area last summer, between themselves lol, but it is never as bad as the north or in england.

there are noramally riot squad when certain teams cough rovers cough when they come down the country. they fecked up our place two seasons and it was right in front of the tv cameras, yet pat scully had the cheek to say we were hostile (no cops present until the trouble kicked off - the away supporters team bus got smashed up - our club's fault for that night though by not getting cops down after refusing entry to on bus before game). then again we where no better when gufc came to town two weeks later - too many green street / football factory wanna bees around. either way you dont hear about outside of matches to you?

Read the question again a chara, i think u got me wrong i said the RIOTS in dublins not the rights?

duggie-89

Fratton Fred wrote: »

out of curiosity, is it compulsory to carry a flag the size of a tennis court to football matches in NI? It always appears so whenever I watch it.:rolleyes:

What is the difference between waving a union flag and singing the Irish national anthem? they are both essentially the same thing aren't they?

I know the Union flags and hats are usually a wind up as much as anything, if you happy to accept one, you must accept them both. Similarly, ban one, ban all.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

Red Hand

duggie-89 wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

GAA has one purpose and that is for Paul Galvin to put his boot physically inside each and every player he will kick later this season (once he's back from injury).:)

Seriously though, if GAA became more of an international sport-becoming more like rugby in terms of European popularity-would ye still want the Irish flag and anthem played? Even if the game was between Italy and France?

Would ye support the spread of GAA into the rest of the UK (don't mean London, btw) and not just NI?

Fratton Fred

duggie-89 wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

you couldn't be further from the point. the GAA is a gealic tradition thats aim was to revive our national games. the irish national anthem is a great tradition and as it is culturaly an irish organistaion i dont see why they would have to have a union flag if they play the anthem.

football = Soccer, not Irish football.

PDN

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

i took the cross of st poatrick as a reference, it doesnt actually include st patrick cross.

The union flag does include the St. Patrick's cross. Where else do you think the big red X in the flag comes from?

KevinMc

Man, Mr Poots comments did make me laugh.

As it stands there is nothing stopping the unionist community or any other community from going to GAA match and enjoying the game if they like the sport. And the anthem shouldn't make that much of a difference.

But if the anthem were to be scrapped you WOULD have alot of problems with the proud IRISH in the north that stuck with their GAA club and county in the troubles when they were getting abuse from the unionist community when they were wearing their GAA colours and crests.

Is it worth losing the support we have now in the hope that more unionists will get involved. I doubt that the anthem is the real issue.

The GAA was set up to promote Irish culture and to this day they are still a symbol of the All Ireland we should be working hard to achieve.

estebancambias

Exactly, its nice to see Nationalism is still alive, I never got the impression it existed on ''liberaldouchebags.ie''(stormfrontquote: After Hours)

A United Ireland is still important, if not essential.

Red Hand

estebancambias wrote: »

A United Ireland is still important, if not essential.

Why?

estebancambias

Why is it not essential? or why is it important?

Its no essential because apparently it would be a drain on the Irish economy, but important because well like do you see the sea that seperates this land with England? That would indicate that ships were needed to get over here...its not Britian; its Ireland.

Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North, tough one the other 80%, if they want to be part of England move back there. The thing is its not that I don't like them, it just doesn't make sense to me that a part of of Ireland should be part of Britian. Nothing should be done with force just simply do you want to stay and be part of an All Ireland or move back where you belong. They must assimilate with our culture, our beliefs if they like the country.

Then Ireland can compensate for the land lost with all this development, and slowly turn the North into a haven of natural beuty....this will never happen but I would like it.

Red Hand

Lol! That gave me a good laugh!

Since when are Unionists English?

And who says that Northern Ireland belongs to you who lives on the Southside, or that you have any claim on it?

OK, guess I'd better stay on topic...

kreuzberger

estebancambias wrote: »

Why is it not essential? or why is it important?

Its no essential because apparently it would be a drain on the Irish economy, but important because well like do you see the sea that seperates this land with England? That would indicate that ships were needed to get over here...its not Britian; its Ireland.

Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North, tough one the other 80%, if they want to be part of England move back there. The thing is its not that I don't like them, it just doesn't make sense to me that a part of of Ireland should be part of Britian. Nothing should be done with force just simply do you want to stay and be part of an All Ireland or move back where you belong. They must assimilate with our culture, our beliefs if they like the country.

Then Ireland can compensate for the land lost with all this development, and slowly turn the North into a haven of natural beuty....this will never happen but I would like it.

Its essential in order to resolve a conflict over sovereignty and national territory , a conflict that will ensure a lot of people continue to die or go to jail untill it is resolved . Its essential for national dignity , in that the majority of people on this island want their territory united yet have to submit to a foreign decree that they arent allowed to have a natonal democracy operate accross their national territory . To practice a politics that accepts we arent allowed to have a national democracy because Britian says so is to practice a form of politics dictated by British constitutional demands . Which means we practice a form of politics Britian has decided for us and not a form of politics and democracy we have decided for ourselves . That a neighbouring islands sovereignty over our territory is legitimate while the people who inhabit the island have inferior rights to ownership of their island than a more powerful neighbour . Its essential for the practice of politics within our country in that we will never have a decent democratic system untill the principle that the people of our nation alone have the power and democratic right to determine our own future is central to it. While foreign occupation remians in place the principle that democracy has to be compromised and subverted for our own good , because a foreign country has the right to make this demand of us and to prevent some unforeseen but certain calamity if democracy is asserted - such a principle will continue to infect our national mindset and produce highly undignified ressults
Its essential for us as a people that we finally move on to a future we have decided for ourselves in a dignified manner . While Britian continues to occupy any part of Ireland we just wont . And we will all be the worse for it . We will all practice and live under an undignified system in which our democratic wishes are not respected .



Only 20% of people apparently say they are Irish in in the North

Id seriously dispute that figure . Ill assert most definitely it isnt remotely accurate

walrusgumble

McDaid--1916 wrote: »

Read the question again a chara, i think u got me wrong i said the RIOTS in dublins not the rights?

oh yeah that was a typing error, but no, i know what you are referring to. i was referring, like you to "riots".(just looked like a retard thou)

but still if you read my question and the context of it, it was clear that i was referring to "riots" or football hooliganism in dublin's eircom league derby matches. the comparisions of english football should have made it clear!

so i would be obliged if you could answer my question regarding your sceptism of the gardai dealing with these incidents . because the last time i checked, and you can correct me on this, there have not being any riots that the gardai could not handle. (of course lansdowne 1995 ireland v england maybe an exception but in truth that was completely the fault of the fai. the police coped well in the limited time to prevent the irish sides going after the hooligans from the top west stand, of course then there was also the pig head incident at a bohs match a few years ago..)

if your referring to the gardai fiasco of the reclaim the streets or love ulster parade (nothing to do with sport), well then you did not get to what was referring to when i stated segeration of crowds at sporting matches in the south was an alien concept and how reasonably well gardai handle them!

KevinMc

The last time a checked the GAA was the national game of the island of Ireland. It doesn't matter if unionist/british start going to games the anthem has been a tradition an needs to stay.

It's funny that Mr Poots of the DUP say that the anthem isn't good for unionists support. Well how about the IFA adopt a netural anthem and play it at Northern Ireland games and maybe we'll see how willing they are to compromise. We nationalists are expected to support a Northern Ireland team that plays GOTQ. Don't think thats fair.

DUP double standards!

kreuzberger

i wouldnt care if they started playing the soldiers song . I still wouldnt support that stupid little horrible backward state . We shouldnt even get into that " but themmuns ..." argument either .

The GAA is a national organisation and shouldnt start submitting to the institutionalised sectarian pandering that stormont and its politicians from both traditions are synonymous with . They should stay away from that feckin nonsense completely .

Richard

KevinMc wrote: »

The last time a checked the GAA was the national game of the island of Ireland. It doesn't matter if unionist/british start going to games the anthem has been a tradition an needs to stay.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and hence plays GSTQ at its international soccer matches. Having said that, it is not appropriate for them to play it. There should be something relevent to Northern Ireland. Danny Boy would be ideal. They should change the anthem immediately.

The Soldier's Song is not the anthem of Northern Ireland. I don't have a problem with it being played in the Republic, along with the flying of the Tricolour, but in NI it would really help Unionist participation in GAA if things were changed in NI.

I think part of the problem is that in the past, DUP members have said some very inflammatory things. This isn't one of them. Edwin Poots is trying to be constructive.

guinnessdrinker

Richard wrote: »

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and hence plays GSTQ at its international soccer matches. Having said that, it is not appropriate for them to play it. There should be something relevent to Northern Ireland.

True enough, AFAIK the Scotish or Welsh teams don't play GSTQ before their international matches.

K-9

I've been in matches in Armagh, Omagh and Belfast where it was played. To me, it's up to the members of the 6 County Boards to decide. From seeing it played at NI grounds personally, it's a matter of pride. To supporters from the 6 counties, it's a statement of culture and identity.

I was never in the Crossmaglen ground when the anthem was played, with a British Army base having taken over part of the grounds! Thank God it's gone now.

Personally, I believe they have a right to that culture and identity. Same as the Orange Order or indeed Linfield etc.

Bear in mind that the DUP have being calling for an end to attacks to Orange Order halls recently, but conveniently ignoring attacks on GAA clubs!

As regards arguments about foreign game bans, Croke Park etc., the GAA has moved on. Some schools that would have only played Rugby or GAA, are now encouraging kids to play the other sport. Jarlath Burns, the ex Armagh player and TG4 commentator is a great example. In his school he has encouraged the playing of Rugby. This is going on in other schools. Rugby schools are inviting Gaelic coaches to their schools.

This is what is happening on the ground, not debates over history. People are moving on.

Pathfinder

kreuzberger wrote: »

i wouldnt care if they started playing the soldiers song . I still wouldnt support that stupid little horrible backward state . We shouldnt even get into that " but themmuns ..." argument either .

The GAA is a national organisation and shouldnt start submitting to the institutionalised sectarian pandering that stormont and its politicians from both traditions are synonymous with . They should stay away from that feckin nonsense completely .

A backward state ?

a bit much coming from a state (the republic), which until the 80s banned birth control, a state which is founded on sectarianism (legally as well as schools and hospitals), where it still takes 7 years to get divorced, and where until 10 years ago playboy magazine was illegal.

As the GAA takes money from unionist tax payers, it has a duty to make itself more accommodating.