Firearms Category's in lay mans terms?

foxhunter

Is there a simplified list anywhere that gives the different category's without all the usual jargon attached?.
Ive read all the stuff on the DOJ site but just can't get the head around it.
Maybe i need to eat more fish:o

rrpc

foxhunter wrote: »

Is there a simplified list anywhere that gives the different category's without all the usual jargon attached?.
Ive read all the stuff on the DOJ site but just can't get the head around it.
Maybe i need to eat more fish:o

What's causing the problem? Is it the Category A, Category B thing, or something else?

foxhunter

rrpc wrote: »

What's causing the problem? Is it the Category A, Category B thing, or something else?

Basicly all of the above .
What cat is your normal bog standard u/o in compared to a semi auto shotgun
or is there any difference?
The same with rifles.
Is there a different cat for centre fire and rimfire or does it depend on the mag capacity?

Thanks .

rrpc

Sorry foxhunter, the closure sort of lost this thread for a while.

The categories (A,B, etc) are EU designations. There's a new directive on the way which will change them all into just two categories. The stuff on the DoJ website is about importing Category B firearms which is the only place in Irish law where these categories are mentioned.

Category B is effectively pistols, there's a thread or two on here somewhere that goes into more detail, do a search and you should find them. They don't really have much effect under Irish Law at the moment, and since they're being changed, won't have any effect in the future.

Is that any help?

Mellor

rrpc wrote: »

The categories (A,B, etc) are EU designations. There's a new directive on the way which will change them all into just two categories. The stuff on the DoJ website is about importing Category B firearms which is the only place in Irish law where these categories are mentioned.

Category B is effectively pistols, there's a thread or two on here somewhere that goes into more detail, do a search and you should find them. They don't really have much effect under Irish Law at the moment, and since they're being changed, won't have any effect in the future.

Is that any help?

Whoa, Cat B is much more than pistols.
from a DOJ document

The following is a list of category B Firearms:

1. Semi-automatic or repeating short firearms.
2. Single-shot short firearms with centre-fire percussion.
3. Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is less than 28 cm.
4. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
5. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber cannot together hold more than three rounds, where the loading device is removable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
6. Repeating and semi-automatic long firearms with smooth-bore barrels not exceeding 60 cm in length.
7. Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms.

my reading of the above is;

1. Pistols
   
2. Unsure
3. Unsure
4. Rifle with mag, semi-suto shotgun
5. Semi-auto shotgun that can be moded
6. Semi-auto shotguns less than 60cm (think these are illegal anyway)
7. Semi-auto rifles that are based on full auto rifles. Semi-auto AK47 as an example

I an unsure about no. 2 & 3
It depends on the def of short weapons. Shotguns are clearly long, and pistols are clearly short, but where does it change. Without clarifiation, i'd only include single shot pistols

rrpc

Mellor wrote: »

Whoa, Cat B is much more than pistols.
from a DOJ document

Sorry, I was referring more to Irish Firearms Law, which doesn't really fall in line with the B category. e.g. 6 below is not legal here at all.

my reading of the above is;

1. Pistols
   
   
2. Unsure - Centre fire pistols (single shot)
3. Unsure - Rimfire pistols (single shot - but does not include the Olympic free pistol which is longer than 28cm)
4. Rifle with mag, semi-suto shotgun (not shotguns as these are referred to as smooth bore)
5. Semi-auto shotgun that can be moded (Rifles only - see above)
6. Semi-auto shotguns less than 60cm (think these are illegal anyway) - Illegal here. Categories are EU designations and are not in the Firearms Acts.
7. Semi-auto rifles that are based on full auto rifles. Semi-auto AK47 as an example

I an unsure about no. 2 & 3
It depends on the def of short weapons. Shotguns are clearly long, and pistols are clearly short, but where does it change. Without clarifiation, i'd only include single shot pistols

Don't be using the 'W' word

I think there's a definition somewhere else in the directive that defines 'short'.

foxhunter

Thank's for the reply's but it's all a bit misleading.
Are cat's C & D then the ones most guns come under in this country or is that another story altogether?

rrpc

Sorry foxhunter for the digression.

The whole category thing is misleading because (a) it's by and large not used here (with the sole exception of inportation of firearms) and (b) it's shortly to be replaced by something completely different.

And that's at EU level. It will be another many months or years work before it has any effect Europe wide.

Your question was what category certain types of firearms were. My question is why do you need to know?

I'm not being smart, just trying to fine tune the answer as the above replies don't seem to have helped.

Mellor

rrpc, you kind of lost me with you last post.
You said cat B was pistols only, then I said it wasn't and listed what it includes, then you agreed with me on the way I see it on 5 out of 7 of the above.

I'm not sure I agree with you on 4 & 5. Shotguns may or may not be included, but I fail to see how they can be left out from the above.

Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.

Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber cannot together hold more than three rounds, where the loading device is removable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.

The heading "Semi-automatic long firearms" includes semi- auto shotguns. As they are semi-automatic long firearms with smooth-bore barrels, still long firearms.

As I said above, im not saying shot-guns are or aren't included. (As I am sure a full list is available)
I am saying that from the above, I can see no reason why they are not included. The description in 3 and 4 could apply to shotguns.

rrpc

I think you might be right Mellor, I had a look at the directive itself and here's what it says:

So 4 and 5 can be both shotguns and rifles. Rifles, because there are a good many full bore rifles that have only capacity for two or three rounds.

(a) 'short firearm' means a firearm with a barrel not exceeding 30 centimetres or whose overall length does not exceed 60 centimetres;
(b) 'long firearm' means any firearm other than a short firearm;
(c) 'automatic firearm' means a firearm which reloads automatically each time a round is fired and can fire more than one round with one pull on the trigger;
(d) 'semi-automatic firearm' means a firearm which reloads automatically each time a round is fired and can fire only one round with one pull on the trigger;
(e) 'repeating firearm' means a firearm which after a round has been fired is designed to bereloaded from a magazine or cylinder by means of a manually-operated action;
(f) 'single-shot firearm' means a firearm with no magazine which is loaded before each shot by the manual insertion of a round into the chamber or a loading recess at the breech of the barrel

However getting back to the OP's question, I'm not certain any of this is relevant seeing as the application of these categories is going to be phased out and we've never really applied them here except in relation to importation and it seems that's only because the Article 7/11 are EU documents and require that designation..

foxhunter

If i want to import a under and over shotgun from the uk i need to put the class of firearm on the import licence.
Same goes for a bolt action rifle .
Are both guns under the same class ?

Mellor

From my reading of it, under and over would be cat C, as it has 3 or less rounds capacity.
Single shot bolt action rifle would be cat C also.

From my reading of it, shotguns can be cat B, C or D.

rrpc

foxhunter wrote: »

If i want to import a under and over shotgun from the uk i need to put the class of firearm on the import licence.
Same goes for a bolt action rifle .
Are both guns under the same class ?

U/O is Category C, as long as the barrel is longer than 60cm.

Bolt-action rifle is also Cat. C

Repeating long firearms other than those listed in category B, point 6.

Mellor beat me to it

foxhunter

Cheers for that lads .That helps a lot