Bet out of turn query?

Rockfish

At a pub tourney last night, blinds 100/200. UTG + 1 bets 2,400 out of turn. UTG who didnt realise this, bets 2,000. TD is called over and seemed unsure what should happen now. He eventually decided that as UTG + 1's bet should stand then UTG had to put another 400 into the pot. Both players accepted this and there was no arguments but was the TD correct?

Ace2007

What??? UTG+1 bets 2400 were a psb would be 700.

Did either of the two players say raise?

If both players said raise - then UTG+1 would have to raise UTG's raise, so he would have to make it at least 4000.

If UTG didn't say raise, then he would have to just call the 2400(i.e put another 400 in).

either way both the 2k of UTG and the 2.4K on UTG+1 can't be taken out of the pot.
had a couple of different situations in my head but i know the questions that will be asked and i don't know the answers for sure - so i just put down these 2.

5starpool

Ace2007 wrote: »

What??? UTG+1 bets 2400 were a psb would be 700.

Did either of the two players say raise?

If both players said raise - then UTG+1 would have to raise UTG's raise, so he would have to make it at least 4000.

If UTG didn't say raise, then he would have to just call the 2400(i.e put another 400 in).

either way both the 2k of UTG and the 2.4K on UTG+1 can't be taken out of the pot.
had a couple of different situations in my head but i know the questions that will be asked and i don't know the answers for sure - so i just put down these 2.

I don't think UTG+1 would have to make it 2000 in this case. If he tried to make it 2400 by saying raise, after UTG had bet 2000 then he would have to make it 4k, but in this case the ruling as given was probably correct I think but not sure.

Taxipete29

Im open to correction on this but if utg says raise and bets 2000 then utg+1 may withdraw 400 but must leave 2000 in.utg+1 would not have to double utgs bet. I think the ruling was probably ok if both players were happy, dont think 400 makes much difference in this spot.

dougee19

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Im open to correction on this but if utg says raise and bets 2000 then utg+1 may withdraw 400 but must leave 2000 in.utg+1 would not have to double utgs bet. I think the ruling was probably ok if both players were happy, dont think 400 makes much difference in this spot.

i thought the same

as long as utg_1 doesnt say the word raise after utg announces raise.. what i was brought up to believe anyway :P

bettyswallox

hi watching ept series 7 barcelona, romanello was at the feature table, utg+1 makes it 7000 or so for argument sake, out of turn, utg ask what his options, hes is told, he can call the raise, raise himself , or fold.he asks what are the options of utg+1, he's told,he can call a raise, or take back his chips if reraised, i kid you not, so utg raises about 16k and utg+1 takes back his chips, i was flabergasted..

Eoin Day

under the gun should have just checked and let the rest of the table act.
if anyone else called the raise the utg can shove thus making more chips if he wins???
think that s right

thegreatiam

The rule as written is:

35. Action Out of Turn
Action out of turn will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call or fold does not change action. If action changes, the out of turn bet is not binding and is returned to the out of turn player who has all options including: calling, raising, or folding. An out of turn fold is binding.

(Poker tda website and rule book)


Basically this means if the guy whose turn it is simply checks, calls the BB or folds then the 2400 from utg+1 remains in the pot.

If the utg player makes a bet different from those actions then action is deemed to have changed and utg+1 can take his bet back and make a new decision.

This way we are not punishing the utg player for utg+1 mistake. if he wants the 2400 in the pot he simply checks, if he does not then he simply raises, like he did. once the action has changed the utg+1 player can act as he normally would. Forcing the utg player to call the 2400 or fold is basically rewarding the out of turn action. and punishing payers who did not make any mistake.