Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??

SpatialPlanner

Folks, I haven't forgotten about this.

My research is being analysed by the college at the moment. Using Summerfield as a case study area, I did questionnaires, interviews and route scores. I interviewed residents of both pro and anti opening of the wall in the estate and also interviewed FCC officials. It makes really interesting reading and I will release the information and findings as soon as I get feedback from the college examiners.;)

BostonB

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Why because somehow spending a large wad of cash on a waste of time wall would make us all feel better. No thanks, let it fall down and clear the rubble. Get real. Get practical.

If you put this much effort into canvassing the people involved you'd probably have got your way by now.

BostonB

Could they make it a tolled, to provide a fund for the costs caused to residents of any increase in crime IF it arises disproportional to wider crime rate.

SpatialPlanner

BostonB wrote: »

If you put this much effort into canvassing the people involved you'd probably have got your way by now.

Hint: That's a correct assumption.

A V A

fact of the matter is ,people that want the whole in the wall are the people who havent been effected by it, events dont just happen in day(regarding anti social behavior) they all add up over the years of things that have happened, regardless of weather theres a whole in the wall or not, people are still going to come over it,im aware of that point thats been made. i dont want the increase in activities to happen within summerfield thats effected by the wall, i moved into this estate when it was a private estate and thats the way i and may others want it to stay like, imo i hate that the other residents arent taking people near or around that wall into account!!! my mother has been talking to people on our road about it and they arent willing for it either !!!!

EdwardHopper

Hi Ava,
I'd like to read your contribution to this forum but something seems to have gone wrong with your keyboard and it makes it very hard to read the post. Perhaps you could post again from a different computer please?

A V A

sorry i dont understand what your saying, from my computers its fine

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

fact of the matter is ,people that want the whole in the wall are the people who havent been effected by it, events dont just happen in day(regarding anti social behavior) they all add up over the years of things that have happened, regardless of weather theres a whole in the wall or not, people are still going to come over it,im aware of that point thats been made. i dont want the increase in activities to happen within summerfield thats effected by the wall, i moved into this estate when it was a private estate and thats the way i and may others want it to stay like, imo i hate that the other residents arent taking people near or around that wall into account!!! my mother has been talking to people on our road about it and they arent willing for it either !!!!

EdwardHopper wrote: »

Hi Ava,
I'd like to read your contribution to this forum but something seems to have gone wrong with your keyboard and it makes it very hard to read the post. Perhaps you could post again from a different computer please?

A V A wrote: »

sorry i dont understand what your saying, from my computers its fine

I'm finding it hard to read too.

Punctuation may make the posts easier to read.

EdwardHopper

Diddler1977 has got it in one. At the risk of going off the point I've done a little translation to try to help. The lack of punctuation does make the posts difficult to read, and has meant I've had to interpret what was intended to a certain extent but I hope I've made my point and this will allow the actual discussion to move on. I too will now move on...


Originally Posted by A V A
fact of the matter is ,people that want the whole in the wall are the people who havent been effected by it, events dont just happen in day(regarding anti social behavior) they all add up over the years of things that have happened, regardless of weather theres a whole in the wall or not, people are still going to come over it,im aware of that point thats been made. i dont want the increase in activities to happen within summerfield thats effected by the wall, i moved into this estate when it was a private estate and thats the way i and may others want it to stay like, imo i hate that the other residents arent taking people near or around that wall into account!!! my mother has been talking to people on our road about it and they arent willing for it either !!!!

Translation:
The fact of the matter is, people who want the hole in the wall are the people who haven’t been effected by it. Events don’t just happen in daylight (regarding anti social behaviour) and things that have happened add up over the years. Regardless of whether there’s a hole in the wall or not, people are still going to come over it. I’m aware of the points that have been made. I don’t want the increase in activities to happen within the part of Summerfield that’s effected by the wall. I moved into this estate when it was a private estate and that’s the way I, and many others, want it to stay. In my opinion, I hate that the other residents aren’t taking people near or around that wall into account!!! My mother has been talking to people on our road about it and they aren’t willing for it either !!!!

Originally Posted by A V A
sorry i dont understand what your saying, from my computers its fine

Translation:
Sorry. I don’t understand what you’re saying, from my computer it’s fine.

BostonB

While hard to read it wasn't intelligible. Consider Diddler1977 had to translate your own comment. The convention is to use quote tags. As its easier to read. That said I'm not standing in judgement, in the heat of debate I often read back my own posts and have to reword them to make sense. Not everyone is posting from a keyboard either.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

That implies that busier areas have less crime than quieter areas. Seems a bit unlikely.

Lots of things can be counterintuitive but still work.

DublinBike stations were planned this way -- stations were put in areas with larger footfalls. It's called "passive security".

People are less likely to commit a crime or act up if there's a steady flow of people walking or cycling in an area. And more "legitimate" potential users of an open route are more likely to intervene if somebody else does something wrong (ranging from calling the police to physically intervening).

Put it this way: With the current set up you only have teenagers and apparently some undesirables climb over the wall, but if there was a hole in the wall then you'd also have neighbours who care and other upstanding or half decent members of society using the route.

BostonB wrote: »

Its about a 10 minute or less to cycle around....

If you want people to walk or cycle you confer an advantage on them. An extra 10mins for such a short trip -- in some cases you're talking about adding over three times the distance or time of what it should take with an opening.

A V A wrote: »

fact of the matter is ,people that want the whole in the wall are the people who havent been effected by it,...

But there is currently no hole in the wall, so what you or others have been affected by is not being stopped by the lack of a hole?

A V A

Diddler1977 wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to read too.

Punctuation may make the posts easier to read.

sorry about the posts lads . im posting from my phone,not from an actual keyboard on a desk top or laptop.


edward hopper, i took offence to your post there , please dont correct me .iv been on boards for a good while now and have posted a numerous amounts of times and have had no problems.

A V A

But there is currently no hole in the wall, so what you or others have been affected by is not being stopped by the lack of a hole?

yes im aware of that.but this whole in the wall would just add more problems to the estate than there already is.being honest iv thought about this issue ,and as much as it would benifit some people it would simply add more problems to the estate , thats my opinion and my view on things

monument

A V A wrote: »

yes im aware of that.but this whole in the wall would just add more problems to the estate than there already is.being honest iv thought about this issue ,and as much as it would benifit some people it would simply add more problems to the estate , thats my opinion and my view on things

What are you basing that on? How will a gap in the wall add more problems?

BostonB

monument - While I know you love a good debate, you must be very bored to be dragging up old posts from 3 months ago. Lock your bicycle on the center side of that wall every night for a week to test your theory and let us know how you get on.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

monument - While I know you love a good debate, you must be very bored to be dragging up old posts from 3 months ago. Lock your bicycle on the center side of that wall every night for a week to test your theory and let us know how you get on.

The discussion seems to be ongoing and it's not like I restarted an old thread. I also did not realise there was a time frame for replying to posts. I honestly replied to your post without any ill intent, if you think there is something wrong with what I side report me or reply to my point.

The reason responded and I read the whole thread is -- like SpatialPlanner -- I'm very interested in the area of access and permeability, and the related area of the affect objectors have on others. It's very unfair that people don't have the choice to use a more direct route because of unrelated anti-social behaviour.

BostonB

Does that mean you won't leave your bike there?

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

Does that mean you won't leave your bike there?

I wouldn't leave my bike outside the Garda Station, or anywhere, for a week. A silly challenge in my opinion.

Gaspode

@EdwardHopper: If you've a problem with someones post, ask them for clarification, do not call them out in the manner you did, it's just poor form.
@A V A: even a phone keyboard has full stops, commas etc. Try to use them.

Can we keep this thread on topic and civil please?

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

I wouldn't leave my bike outside the Garda Station, or anywhere, for a week. A silly challenge in my opinion.

Perhaps personal property is a completely different scenario to dublin bikes which are designed to be indestructible, undesirable, and designed according to a wealth International experience of attracting vandalism.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

daymobrew wrote: »

I wouldn't leave my bike outside the Garda Station, or anywhere, for a week. A silly challenge in my opinion.

Perhaps personal property is a completely different scenario to dublin bikes which are designed to be indestructible, undesirable, and designed according to a wealth International experience of attracting vandalism.

With passive security? Not a whole lot different -- the same principles apply. And we're not talking about unrealistic challenges, but property people already have to leave outside, like their cars.

Currently the wall route is used by apparent undesirables and the areas they cross in are dead ends or close to dead ends, so apart from the undesirables, mostly the only people going down these roads are the people who live there.

if you add gaps in the wall which are inviting to more normal people you get more passive security because the normal people outnumber others and keep an extra eye over anti-social behavior.

EdwardHopper

Ava, no offence was intended. I was under the impression that one of the boards rules was that text speak and lack of punctuation was not encouraged because it is difficult to read. I made my initial post obtuse in an attempt to keep it humourous, I too have been on boards a long time and posted a lot over the years. This username is not my original as I ended up re-registering after an absence, and starting again as a new user, when I couldn't remember my log in details

On the point of the non-hole in the wall, it's ironic that this relates to Summerfield who over-ruled the residents of Broadway when the estate was new by breaking through to make pedestrian access into Broadway against the wishes of the majority of the residents in Broadway - so it's perhaps Karma. That said, since then there is more pedestrian traffic through an estate that used to be a cul-de-sac (Broadway) and there is also more isolated incidents of random violence (car windows smashed etc) but I can't scientifically link one to the other really - could be just a co-incidence.

Diddler1977

Not having gaps in walls to allow pedestrians and cyclists shorten their commutes is symptomatic of wider problems in Dublin and Ireland.

There has become an over reliance on the use of the car.

Every Weekend on the roads we have clogged up congestion due to local people driving to the centre.

We have overweight kids and adults who won't walk to local spots - but in fairness most of them are so unfit they are unable to walk any length. They need short access routes through estates.

By keeping estates closed off to walkers we are allowing certain estates cosset themselves, have an illusion of security but more importantly hold the masses hostage and refuse them access to public walkways.

It does not bode well for future generations.

amdublin

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Not having gaps in walls to allow pedestrians and cyclists shorten their commutes is symptomatic of wider problems in Dublin and Ireland.

There has become an over reliance on the use of the car.

Every Weekend on the roads we have clogged up congestion due to local people driving to the centre.

We have overweight kids and adults who won't walk to local spots - but in fairness most of them are so unfit they are unable to walk any length. They need short access routes through estates.

By keeping estates closed off to walkers we are allowing certain estates cosset themselves, have an illusion of security but more importantly hold the masses hostage and refuse them access to public walkways.

It does not bode well for future generations.

WELL SAID OLD BOY!

BostonB

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Not having gaps in walls to allow pedestrians and cyclists shorten their commutes is symptomatic of wider problems in ...

Would you lock your bike at the center. I wouldn't.

amdublin

BostonB wrote: »

Would you lock your bike at the center. I wouldn't.

Yes. I do already. Good lock, well populated area/good volume of footfall. Move never had any problems whatsoever.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Would you lock your bike at the center. I wouldn't.

I have and I would again.

I have left it in Temple Bar overnight at weekends more than a handful of times -- but yet the hype you hear about that area being a no-go for parking is unreal. It's about how you park a bike -- ie doing it with two good locks, secure and unable to fall over, to an unmovable object and in an area where people are passing by.

But in saying that the lack of good cycle parking stands in good locations at many shopping centres is something that needs to be addressed.

BostonB

Yet you see bikes stripped and bent around poles all over. Must be my imagination.

amdublin

BostonB wrote: »

Yet you see bikes stripped and bent around poles all over. Must be my imagination.

I cannot recall seeing this in the TC.

As I said I lock mine there (regularly) with no issues whatsoever. You choose not to. Fine.

What's this got to do with the hole in the wall btw?

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Yet you see bikes stripped and bent around poles all over. Must be my imagination.

One thing I missed: You need to lock both wheels too, especially if the wheels are quick release. Those bikes stripped usual start off where somebody has stolen a wheel off a bike (not helped by only locking a bike by its frame) or where the wheel has been vandalised (not helped by a bikes poorly locked to polls).

See this for further tips: http://cyclingindublin.com/lock-your-bicycle/

The frames of bikes can also be left there for a while making the problem of theft seem worse.