Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??

Gaspode

amdublin wrote: »

What's this got to do with the hole in the wall btw?

My thoughts exactly. Keep it on topic please folks.

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

Would you lock your bike at the center. I wouldn't.

I too have done and will do again and again.

Gaspode

Which part of keep it on topic are you not getting Daymobrew?
This is about the wall in Summerfield, not bike security in BSC.

Any more drifts off topic and this thread will be locked.

Godge

A V A wrote: »

fact of the matter is ,people that want the whole in the wall are the people who havent been effected by it, events dont just happen in day(regarding anti social behavior) they all add up over the years of things that have happened, regardless of weather theres a whole in the wall or not, people are still going to come over it,im aware of that point thats been made. i dont want the increase in activities to happen within summerfield thats effected by the wall, i moved into this estate when it was a private estate and thats the way i and may others want it to stay like, imo i hate that the other residents arent taking people near or around that wall into account!!! my mother has been talking to people on our road about it and they arent willing for it either !!!!

A V A wrote: »

yes im aware of that.but this whole in the wall would just add more problems to the estate than there already is.being honest iv thought about this issue ,and as much as it would benifit some people it would simply add more problems to the estate , thats my opinion and my view on things

I know its your opinion and the opinion of many others that opening a hole in the wall will bring undesireable activity into Summerfield but is there any scientific basis (even anecdotal) to that opinion.

For example, I have often heard on boards and around Summerfield that opening a hole in the wall (even one with passcode/key access only) would lead to the estate being clogged by people parking there to go to the centre. Well, I was up at the Centre a fair bit in the run-up to Christmas, thinking about this. One thing I noticed was that the red, blue, yellow and green car parks, even when completely full would have people driving around them looking for spaces. On the busier days, the outer car parks would fill up. But funnily enough, no matter how busy it was, it was always possible to find a space in the AIB carpark or behind Spar. Why? Because people don't want to walk long distances from their cars to the shops. So why would people park in Summerfield?

BostonB

Godge wrote: »

...is there any scientific basis (even anecdotal) to that opinion.

None that is won't either. Other locations with similar gates aren't really beside anything so massive as shopping centre, or a nightclub.

Some data either way would be useful for sure.

But I suspect the residents feel once its opened it will be impossible to get closed if there is a problem. Its them that has to be convinced. Or the council.

Godge wrote: »

... So why would people park in Summerfield?

To avoid the traffic. Its a nightmare to get there.

Stark

BostonB wrote: »

To avoid the traffic. Its a nightmare to get there.

Is there any evidence that people are doing this in other estates that are within walking distance of the centre? There are plenty of car parks in the retail parks around the centre that are usually half empty and easy to get in and out of, yet people still opt to drive in circles around the inner car parking spaces looking for a space that saves them 3 minutes of walking.

A V A

Godge wrote: »

I know its your opinion and the opinion of many others that opening a hole in the wall will bring undesireable activity into Summerfield but is there any scientific basis (even anecdotal) to that opinion.

For example, I have often heard on boards and around Summerfield that opening a hole in the wall (even one with passcode/key access only) would lead to the estate being clogged by people parking there to go to the centre. Well, I was up at the Centre a fair bit in the run-up to Christmas, thinking about this. One thing I noticed was that the red, blue, yellow and green car parks, even when completely full would have people driving around them looking for spaces. On the busier days, the outer car parks would fill up. But funnily enough, no matter how busy it was, it was always possible to find a space in the AIB carpark or behind Spar. Why? Because people don't want to walk long distances from their cars to the shops. So why would people park in Summerfield?

like what was said above, we are right beside a massive shopping complex that is one of the biggest in ireland!! imo i think we get the blunt of people walking through our estate ,because at the start of summer field ,there's the roselawn road which people walk from and into out estate to get over the wall ,same with broadway.people walk through the entrance of broadway and then through summerfield!! spring lawn dont get people parking in there and dont get as much activity as we do in our estate.also the spar ,aib bank add to things in the day and then in the night,the nightclub takes over :P even i know myself you cant stop people jumping over the wall at night going to that club ,but to add to it with more activity just isnt acceptable!! a good point was made above that i agree with , once the whole is put in place , and things happen , it will be a very hard process to get it closed and would take longer than it took to get it put in,in the first place

SpatialPlanner

A V A wrote: »

yes im aware of that.but this whole in the wall would just add more problems to the estate than there already is.being honest iv thought about this issue ,and as much as it would benifit some people it would simply add more problems to the estate , thats my opinion and my view on things

AVA, no agenda from me either way but I'm genuinely interested to know what problems you believe might be caused by the opening up of pedestrian access.

I know from speaking to residents living close to the wall that they were worried about antisocial behaviour and parking but I would be really interested in what the current situation is and what you would expect the escalation in antisocial behaviour to be with access. Cheers.

SpatialPlanner

A V A wrote: »

a good point was made above that i agree with , once the whole is put in place , and things happen , it will be a very hard process to get it closed and would take longer than it took to get it put in,in the first place

AVA, that's not necessarily true. Like with the closure of laneways etc, a motion could be passed by councillors to close the access and the council would be compelled to act on it. That's how it works. There are examples of it throughout the Fingal County Council area. I'm just clarifying my experience of it and what I have found in my research.

A V A

SpatialPlanner wrote: »

AVA, no agenda from me either way but I'm genuinely interested to know what problems you believe might be caused by the opening up of pedestrian access.

I know from speaking to residents living close to the wall that they were worried about antisocial behaviour and parking but I would be really interested in what the current situation is and what you would expect the escalation in antisocial behaviour to be with access. Cheers.

with all due-respect i really dont want to get into what has happened with that wall. to many things to keep track of happened over the years . just mainly people getting over that wall,weather its been from the nightclub late at night acting the ticks or just people passing in the day . iv even noticed anti social behavior in the day the likes of car mirrors being kicked off etc that kind of carry on .

and if your on the d15 charter you'll see a thread about bulguries happening in the area in the area ,thats also another thing to keep in mind .

amdublin

A V A wrote: »

with all due-respect i really dont want to get into what has happened with that wall. to many things to keep track of happened over the years . just mainly people getting over that wall,weather its been from the nightclub late at night acting the ticks or just people passing in the day . iv even noticed anti social behavior in the day the likes of car mirrors being kicked off etc that kind of carry on .

and if your on the d15 charter you'll see a thread about bulguries happening in the area in the area ,thats also another thing to keep in mind .

So they're getting over the wall into the estate anyway

So the hole in the wall is doing nothing, NADA, serving no purpose yet you still want it there

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

and if your on the d15 charter you'll see a thread about bulguries happening in the area in the area ,thats also another thing to keep in mind .

???!!!!

Are you trying to say that Summerfield Estate won't experience burglaries or break ins because the wall is closed?????

That's a big leap of imagination!

BostonB

Its caused enough anti social activity in this thread anyway...

Gaspode

BostonB wrote: »

Its caused enough anti social activity in this thread anyway...

True!

Second most active thread in this forum after the Coolmine football guys, so either it's a really interesting subject or the arguments are cyclical and never-ending. I'm a neutral as it doesn't affect me in any way. I cant see any agreement being reached between the open-it-up people and the keep-it-closed people, nobody's made a truly convincing argument either way.

Diddler1977

BostonB wrote: »

Its caused enough anti social activity in this thread anyway...

I wouldn't call online discussion between people with different views "anti social activity"

BostonB

or humour apparently

A V A

amdublin wrote: »

So they're getting over the wall into the estate anyway

So the hole in the wall is doing nothing, NADA, serving no purpose yet you still want it there

yes i have clearly stated that in my previous inputs to this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and when did i say i wanted the whole in the wall????? i never said i did

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

yes i have clearly stated that in my previous inputs to this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and when did i say i wanted the whole in the wall????? i never said i did

Hole in the wall???

A V A

ooooopppppps oh i am sorrry my dearest !!!!!! hole* there you go .

Diddler1977

The Summerfield wall is making me fat:eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0815/1224302449132.html

Luttrell1975

Okay, after the spelling B broke out and we went off topic I lost some of my interest. Then when I read what gaspode wrote I got my interest back. Thanks MOD!

After the back and forth here we get AVA saying that the hole in the wall makes things worse. How? No answers to the question.

People walking because the things they need to get to are close makes a friendlier neighbourhood where people have the chance of seeing one another. This also means people are around to supervise their neighbourhood like monument said several pages ago. This is the kind of atmosphere my gran brought my mother up in. it was a safer environment.

I can only conclude that the people who want to hold on to the wall are antisocial. They just don't want to see people walking past their property even tho it's not on their property. Am I wrong about this?

A V A

what ???? not our property ?? when my family moved into summerfield ,it was a private estate!!!! i want to hold onto the wall but that doesnt make me anti social , and im far from it!!!!!

a whole in a wall isnt going to make a friendly neighborhood ,and with all due respect summerfiled is totally different to how you think your gran was brought up and how her ways would work the same in summerfield. it must have been a while back when things were not as bad as they are now with anti social behavior, people dont look out for each other anymore in this estate, well not as much as they use to!!! well the people beside that wall still do!!! the behavior at night is unbearable and nothing can be done but something can be done to prevent problems in the day. for example, in the day when the gate will be open, your going to have groups of people coming through that wall and using the green beside that wall as a public park or a place to sit around or play football!!!! coming from someone thats young enough,that will defo happen in the summer !!!


to be honest , this hole thread has annoyed me , that the amount of people in the estate that are not thinking of the people right in the path of the wall and what the whole will do if its opened!!!

BostonB

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

O..After the back and forth here we get AVA saying that the hole in the wall makes things worse. How? No answers to the question....

The ball is in your court. You need to prove to the locals and council hat similar openings, beside major shopping centers and nightclubs, will not make things worse. You have to convince them not the other way around. Also do it door to door, not on the internet. Theres almost no one from the estate on this thread.

amdublin

Jesus Christ AVA it's hard to take your posts seriously with you calling the hole in the wall a "whole" in the wall.

It's "whole" thread....

A V A wrote: »

what ???? not our property ?? when my family moved into summerfield ,it was a private estate!!!! i want to hold onto the wall but that doesnt make me anti social , and im far from it!!!!!

a whole in a wall isnt going to make a friendly neighborhood ,and with all due respect........

....to be honest , this hole thread has annoyed me , that the amount of people in the estate that are not thinking of the people right in the path of the wall and what the whole will do if its opened!!!

It's been clarified to you before:

A V A wrote: »

ooooopppppps oh i am sorrry my dearest !!!!!! hole* there you go .

Seriously!!! :mad:

Luttrell1975

BostonB wrote: »

The ball is in your court. You need to prove to the locals and council hat similar openings, beside major shopping centers and nightclubs, will not make things worse. You have to convince them not the other way around. Also do it door to door, not on the internet. Theres almost no one from the estate on this thread.

The square tallaght, right beside to the west is Belgard Square. No wall, a grass verge across the road from them and the shopping centre carpark. On the east there is Westpark, very like Summerfield and no wall, but a small green with a path across it. The only thing is they come out on a small roundabout..... But the pedestrian crossing is fifty feet away. Once there they cross the street and have access to a hotel bar, a Spar, and the road to the square.

And btw Boston, what is proof? None of the "expert" claims of child predators, football games, night clobbers and murderers is proven... But you have no problem with that. So long as we all drive our shiny red cars itll all be good.

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

what ???? not our property ?? when my family moved into summerfield ,it was a private estate!!!! i want to hold onto the wall but that doesnt make me anti social , and im far from it!!!!!

a whole in a wall isnt going to make a friendly neighborhood ,and with all due respect summerfiled is totally different to how you think your gran was brought up and how her ways would work the same in summerfield. it must have been a while back when things were not as bad as they are now with anti social behavior, people dont look out for each other anymore in this estate, well not as much as they use to!!! well the people beside that wall still do!!! the behavior at night is unbearable and nothing can be done but something can be done to prevent problems in the day. for example, in the day when the gate will be open, your going to have groups of people coming through that wall and using the green beside that wall as a public park or a place to sit around or play football!!!! coming from someone thats young enough,that will defo happen in the summer !!!


to be honest , this hole thread has annoyed me , that the amount of people in the estate that are not thinking of the people right in the path of the wall and what the whole will do if its opened!!!

Great! That is what that green space is for.

That is a brilliant result of an opening in the wall being made.

This is exactly the social behaviour that we need to see in D15.......along with people walking and cycling through the gap.

Diddler1977

This closed wall in the Summerfield estate makes me quite sad.

As a child I grew up on Corduff. Gangs of my friends played in the "Valley" and walked down to Tuthills to spend our pocket money. It was a time where we walked everywhere. My mother pushed a buggy through the big snow of 82/83 to get food supplies in Blanchardstown Village.

It was an innocent time. We all knew our neighbours and we helped each other out.

Very few of us had bikes because they cost so much. Even fewer families had cars. Heading to the zoo we would either go on the bus or a neighbour's Cortina would be crammed full with about 10 kids in the back seat!

As children, we were all skinny and in good health. Type 2 Diabetes was not very common among adults.

Now what is the story??? - Blocked up walls in to public estates that force us in to our cars.
Blocked up walls that prevent children walking to the Blanchardstown Centre with their friends.
Blocked up walls preventing children from cycling home from school.
Very sad indeed.

It is sad that even though there is such a buzz about calorific info. on menus, operation transformation and alcohol awareness that there is not a push to make our towns more pedestrian and cycle friendly.

For the sake of the environment we need to stop using our cars for drives that are within walking distance and push the council to open up areas for walking.

We will see an improvement in our health and also have more money in our pockets. The price of petrol is rising and will only continue to do so.

Unfortunately as a nation I don't think we understand why we need to have areas open for walking and cycling. I don't think we would be having this discussion in The Netherlands

But lets think of the next generation.......lets push for the wall to be opened.....for the sake of the children.

Walking and cycling are cheap, good for your physical and mental health, sociable, time efficient, etc., etc. It's all good. Let's not be stopped by a selfish few.....

BostonB

Bit of a case of Rose tinted glass there, Corduff was never out of the news back then. It had a terrible reputation, even a no go area for the cops at times.

BostonB

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

The square tallaght, right beside to the west is Belgard Square. No wall, a grass verge across the road from them and the shopping centre carpark. On the east there is Westpark, very like Summerfield and no wall, but a small green with a path across it. The only thing is they come out on a small roundabout..... But the pedestrian crossing is fifty feet away. Once there they cross the street and have access to a hotel bar, a Spar, and the road to the square.

And btw Boston, what is proof? None of the "expert" claims of child predators, football games, night clobbers and murderers is proven... But you have no problem with that. So long as we all drive our shiny red cars itll all be good.

Kinda missing the point. Its got nothing to do with me. I don't live there, its not on my route to anywhere. You have to prove/persuade the residents. Sounding off here isn't going to achieve anything. Even if everyone here agreed with you. It still achieves nothing.

BostonB

Diddler1977 wrote: »

...Now what is the story??? - Blocked up walls in to public estates that force us in to our cars.
Blocked up walls that prevent children walking to the Blanchardstown Centre with their friends.
Blocked up walls preventing children from cycling home from school.
Very sad indeed.....

This I don't really get. As a child walked up to Clonsilla for primary school. I know others who cycled from D.15 to Declans, or Glasnevin for school. I know plenty who cycle from D.15 to the city center to work a fair bit. The distance you're claiming can't be cycled, walked here is shockingly tiny.